June 22, 200818 yr Well it was certainly exciting tonight... kind of reminded me of a Looper outing. Haha, which is why we should make someone else closer and keep Gregg in the pen!
June 22, 200818 yr I'm curious to see what his Opponents BA is... I'm not gonna check now, but I know it's very good (under .200) Still though...that doesn't matter when you're constantly letting the opposing team score w/o the benefit of a hit, at times. He now has 23 walks in 35.2 innings...that's just terrible. His WHIP and K rate...also NOTHING to brag about...especially for a "closer." And fact is...he's 13/17 in save opportunities. That's not even the definition of "bend but don't break" anymore. It's not really a great save %, by any means. um, exactly. Eh, not really. His 1.212 WHIP is the best on the team outside Waechter and Nelson (Who's WHIP has been dropping). It's a full .200 points under the league average. While I don't want to see him as the closer anymore, I'm not going to pretend he has a bad WHIP just to please me. wouldn't it be more fair to compare his WHIP to other closers around the league though, Rab? Is that # comparing him to relievers? Closers only? Or all? It's unfair to put starters' stats in there, as well, as they generally go more innings...and have higher WHIP's. I'd like to hear what Gregg's WHIP is compared to OTHER CLOSERS (since that's his job)...I doubt it's above average, if there's such a stat. I'll look up that closer stat, I might take me a while but I'll figure it out. Also, I don't want to compare him to other closers for WHIP because I am thinking of him as a part of our pen, not as our closer. WHIP shouldn't really change depending on what role you fill back there unless it's something like going from LOOGY to long man. Yeah...but the problem is...he IS THE CLOSER of THIS team. It is his job, and compared to every other pitcher on the team, he is being paid like one. So I, personally, would like to know. As for being a reliever...yeah, it is basically the same for any reliever (regarding WHIP), as you said. Same standards. I just didn't know if you had starters mixed in there, as well.
June 22, 200818 yr I'm curious to see what his Opponents BA is... I'm not gonna check now, but I know it's very good (under .200) Still though...that doesn't matter when you're constantly letting the opposing team score w/o the benefit of a hit, at times. He now has 23 walks in 35.2 innings...that's just terrible. His WHIP and K rate...also NOTHING to brag about...especially for a "closer." And fact is...he's 13/17 in save opportunities. That's not even the definition of "bend but don't break" anymore. It's not really a great save %, by any means. um, exactly. Eh, not really. His 1.212 WHIP is the best on the team outside Waechter and Nelson (Who's WHIP has been dropping). It's a full .200 points under the league average. While I don't want to see him as the closer anymore, I'm not going to pretend he has a bad WHIP just to please me. wouldn't it be more fair to compare his WHIP to other closers around the league though, Rab? Is that # comparing him to relievers? Closers only? Or all? It's unfair to put starters' stats in there, as well, as they generally go more innings...and have higher WHIP's. I'd like to hear what Gregg's WHIP is compared to OTHER CLOSERS (since that's his job)...I doubt it's above average, if there's such a stat. Since you guys eat stats like cupcakes WHIP K-Rod - 1.19 Street - 1.01 Sherrill - 1.19 Papelbon -.87 Rivera - .53 Soria - .79 Nathan - 1.01 Hoffman - .67 Wagner - .97 T. Jones - 1.39 Gregg is awesome compared to these closers, wait he beat Todd Jones... hmm Jones sounds familiar where has he pitched hmm.. lol That would = to about 1/3 of the league's closers. I'm asking for all closers. Guys like Capps, Saito, etc., etc. aren't even on your list, there. ...and you messed up Hoffman's WHIP, for sure. :thumbup
June 22, 200818 yr Author I'm curious to see what his Opponents BA is... I'm not gonna check now, but I know it's very good (under .200) Still though...that doesn't matter when you're constantly letting the opposing team score w/o the benefit of a hit, at times. He now has 23 walks in 35.2 innings...that's just terrible. His WHIP and K rate...also NOTHING to brag about...especially for a "closer." And fact is...he's 13/17 in save opportunities. That's not even the definition of "bend but don't break" anymore. It's not really a great save %, by any means. um, exactly. Eh, not really. His 1.212 WHIP is the best on the team outside Waechter and Nelson (Who's WHIP has been dropping). It's a full .200 points under the league average. While I don't want to see him as the closer anymore, I'm not going to pretend he has a bad WHIP just to please me. wouldn't it be more fair to compare his WHIP to other closers around the league though, Rab? Is that # comparing him to relievers? Closers only? Or all? It's unfair to put starters' stats in there, as well, as they generally go more innings...and have higher WHIP's. I'd like to hear what Gregg's WHIP is compared to OTHER CLOSERS (since that's his job)...I doubt it's above average, if there's such a stat. Since you guys eat stats like cupcakes WHIP K-Rod - 1.19 Street - 1.01 Sherrill - 1.19 Papelbon -.87 Rivera - .53 Soria - .79 Nathan - 1.01 Hoffman - .67 Wagner - .97 T. Jones - 1.39 Gregg is awesome compared to these closers, wait he beat Todd Jones... hmm Jones sounds familiar where has he pitched hmm.. lol That would = to about 1/3 of the league's closers. I'm asking for all closers. Guys like Capps, Saito, etc., etc. aren't even on your list, there. ...and you messed up Hoffman's WHIP, for sure. :thumbup Sorry I dont have time to find every closer... Hoffman is at 1.21=Gregg lol. Capps - 1.02 Wilson - 1.40 Saito - 1.27 Valverde - 1.46 < ouch Rauch - .95 < good stuff
June 22, 200818 yr I'm curious to see what his Opponents BA is... I'm not gonna check now, but I know it's very good (under .200) Still though...that doesn't matter when you're constantly letting the opposing team score w/o the benefit of a hit, at times. He now has 23 walks in 35.2 innings...that's just terrible. His WHIP and K rate...also NOTHING to brag about...especially for a "closer." And fact is...he's 13/17 in save opportunities. That's not even the definition of "bend but don't break" anymore. It's not really a great save %, by any means. um, exactly. Eh, not really. His 1.212 WHIP is the best on the team outside Waechter and Nelson (Who's WHIP has been dropping). It's a full .200 points under the league average. While I don't want to see him as the closer anymore, I'm not going to pretend he has a bad WHIP just to please me. wouldn't it be more fair to compare his WHIP to other closers around the league though, Rab? Is that # comparing him to relievers? Closers only? Or all? It's unfair to put starters' stats in there, as well, as they generally go more innings...and have higher WHIP's. I'd like to hear what Gregg's WHIP is compared to OTHER CLOSERS (since that's his job)...I doubt it's above average, if there's such a stat. I'll look up that closer stat, I might take me a while but I'll figure it out. Also, I don't want to compare him to other closers for WHIP because I am thinking of him as a part of our pen, not as our closer. WHIP shouldn't really change depending on what role you fill back there unless it's something like going from LOOGY to long man. Yeah...but the problem is...he IS THE CLOSER of THIS team. It is his job, and compared to every other pitcher on the team, he is being paid like one. So I, personally, would like to know. As for being a reliever...yeah, it is basically the same for any reliever (regarding WHIP), as you said. Same standards. I just didn't know if you had starters mixed in there, as well. Actually, yeah, I compared him to the wrong WHIP now that you mention it...just a moment... OK, just relievers. His WHIP is about .169 less that league average for a reliever. Not as much as the .200 that I previously stated, but that's still pretty good. As for that that closer stat, I'll try to get it for you. Might take me a while though. Also, he's not getting paid like a closer. He is actually getting paid around league average. A quick look says that he is paid something like the 25th-30th most of a reliever in the NL.
June 22, 200818 yr Author I'm curious to see what his Opponents BA is... I'm not gonna check now, but I know it's very good (under .200) Still though...that doesn't matter when you're constantly letting the opposing team score w/o the benefit of a hit, at times. He now has 23 walks in 35.2 innings...that's just terrible. His WHIP and K rate...also NOTHING to brag about...especially for a "closer." And fact is...he's 13/17 in save opportunities. That's not even the definition of "bend but don't break" anymore. It's not really a great save %, by any means. um, exactly. Eh, not really. His 1.212 WHIP is the best on the team outside Waechter and Nelson (Who's WHIP has been dropping). It's a full .200 points under the league average. While I don't want to see him as the closer anymore, I'm not going to pretend he has a bad WHIP just to please me. wouldn't it be more fair to compare his WHIP to other closers around the league though, Rab? Is that # comparing him to relievers? Closers only? Or all? It's unfair to put starters' stats in there, as well, as they generally go more innings...and have higher WHIP's. I'd like to hear what Gregg's WHIP is compared to OTHER CLOSERS (since that's his job)...I doubt it's above average, if there's such a stat. I'll look up that closer stat, I might take me a while but I'll figure it out. Also, I don't want to compare him to other closers for WHIP because I am thinking of him as a part of our pen, not as our closer. WHIP shouldn't really change depending on what role you fill back there unless it's something like going from LOOGY to long man. Yeah...but the problem is...he IS THE CLOSER of THIS team. It is his job, and compared to every other pitcher on the team, he is being paid like one. So I, personally, would like to know. As for being a reliever...yeah, it is basically the same for any reliever (regarding WHIP), as you said. Same standards. I just didn't know if you had starters mixed in there, as well. Actually, yeah, I compared him to the wrong WHIP now that you mention it...just a moment... OK, just relievers. His WHIP is about .169 less that league average for a reliever. Not as much as the .200 that I previously stated, but that's still pretty good. As for that that closer stat, I'll try to get it for you. Might take me a while though. Also, he's not getting paid like a closer. He is actually getting paid around league average. A quick look says that he is paid something like the 25th-30th most of a reliever in the NL. Marlins dont have money thats nothing new, compared to other closers around the league hes in the lower middle in WHIP.
June 22, 200818 yr One of the big reason it has always bugged me with Gregg as the closer isnt always his performance. coming from LA he was a guy who would usually go multiple innings. At closer he just pitches the 9th, considering Fredi doesn't like bring him in before the 9th. If you had a guy like Lindstrom who usually can only go one inning and keep his best stuff in the 9th, and Gregg going the 7th and 8th with his best possible stuff in a night that is 3 innings with two pitchers having their best stuff. As apposed to having three pitchers having to pitch one inning each.
June 22, 200818 yr Author One of the big reason it has always bugged me with Gregg as the closer isnt always his performance. coming from LA he was a guy who would usually go multiple innings. At closer he just pitches the 9th, considering Fredi doesn't like bring him in before the 9th. If you had a guy like Lindstrom who usually can only go one inning and keep his best stuff in the 9th, and Gregg going the 7th and 8th with his best possible stuff in a night that is 3 innings with two pitchers having their best stuff. As apposed to having three pitchers having to pitcher one inning each. You know for a while I thought Lindstrom was going to be a gem, and not that he hasn't been good but of late he hasn't been getting it done either speaking of I havent seen Lindstrom pitch in a while when was the last time he pitched?
June 22, 200818 yr One of the big reason it has always bugged me with Gregg as the closer isnt always his performance. coming from LA he was a guy who would usually go multiple innings. At closer he just pitches the 9th, considering Fredi doesn't like bring him in before the 9th. If you had a guy like Lindstrom who usually can only go one inning and keep his best stuff in the 9th, and Gregg going the 7th and 8th with his best possible stuff in a night that is 3 innings with two pitchers having their best stuff. As apposed to having three pitchers having to pitch one inning each. I still like Lindstrom, and his stuff, but fact is...everytime he goes out there, it's almost like batting practice. One outing he looks like a great, the next he looks like Version 2.0 of Kyle Farnsworth.
June 22, 200818 yr I wasn't generally talking about putting Lindstrom there, just using him as an example of someone who can only really go for one inning with their best stuff.
June 22, 200818 yr I wasn't generally talking about putting Lindstrom there, just using him as an example of someone who can only really go for one inning with their best stuff. Yeah, you're point is still solid, it'd really help keep the overall shape of the pen good too
June 22, 200818 yr 1 IP 2 H 1 R 1 ER 2 BB 1 K - Here is the "Closer's" line from last night.... Nuff said, get this guy the hell outta the closer role and let someone else try. Gregg is not reliable, period. If it wasn't for Cantu, these stats would be inflated. It's not like he had 1 bad night, this is happening too much lately and with 1 gam eback of the Phillies , this is not the time for the bullpen to be f***ing up.
June 22, 200818 yr OK Erick, I got your number. The league average WHIP for a closer is....1.204. That was anti-climactic.
June 22, 200818 yr Author 1 IP 2 H 1 R 1 ER 2 BB 1 K - Here is the "Closer's" line from last night.... Nuff said, get this guy the hell outta the closer role and let someone else try. Gregg is not reliable, period. I could see Gregg on a Reality TV show... "Can you see what I see" Gregg sucks right now he has yet to show me anything except wildness and his glasses hmm maybe he really cant see.
June 22, 200818 yr I know most people hate it but the bullpen by committee approach might be the Marlins best solution. Go with the hottest hand be it Pinto, Lindstrom or J. Miller.
June 22, 200818 yr in nearly 300 career relief innings prior to this season: 8.45 K/9, 3.34 BB/9, 2.53 K/BB, 0.36 HBP/9 In 35 inn this season: 7.06 K/9, 5.80 BB/9, 1.22 K/BB, 0.76 HBP/9 His K's are down, his walks are very very up, he now has a horrible K/BB ratio, and he's hitting over twice as many batters. If it's the f***ing glasses he needs to get that sh*t worked out ASAP
June 22, 200818 yr He's always "bend but don't break" but sooner or later its going to catch up with him Are you kidding me he has broken on several occasions, we don't think about those because the great Marlins bats come back and end up winning the game. Why do you think Gregg has so many wins, because he blows a save then the Fish come back and win the ballgame. It seems like the Fish always are able to turn mediocre pitchers to closers for one year, then they dump them. Maybe we should of done that with Gregg. It may be time to look outside the organization. Lindstrom is definetly not ready, the best reliever we got is Pinto and we need him for matchups and to setup. I like Joe Nelson but hitters will start to figure him out. The best guy for the job is Ryan Tucker, but we need SP and he has done a decent job so far. Slowly this is becoming as big, or even a bigger problem than CF.
June 22, 200818 yr Watching the game last night I noticed he was having problems with mechanics; specifically his release point. Velocity is there he just needs to fix his throwing because he's getting either too much of the plate or not close at all. If you notice as the inning progressed he started to pitch better. He should work with Wiley to get it fixed to be more consistent.
June 22, 200818 yr One of the big reason it has always bugged me with Gregg as the closer isnt always his performance. coming from LA he was a guy who would usually go multiple innings. At closer he just pitches the 9th, considering Fredi doesn't like bring him in before the 9th. If you had a guy like Lindstrom who usually can only go one inning and keep his best stuff in the 9th, and Gregg going the 7th and 8th with his best possible stuff in a night that is 3 innings with two pitchers having their best stuff. As apposed to having three pitchers having to pitch one inning each. You nailed it. That has always been my problem with Gregg closing also, he is a 3 inning guy, not a 1 and done closer type. His value is in his ability to stretch his arm out when he needed. Hell, he could even spot start. Now I still believe we do NOT have any one of the roster who has the stuff to make me confident in their ability to close. It's just too risky to make the switch right now - esp. for an older minor league journeyman. If you want to talk about going out and trading for a guy to be in that role...by all means.
June 22, 200818 yr OK Erick, I got your number. The league average WHIP for a closer is....1.204. That was anti-climactic. Thanks. :thumbup
June 22, 200818 yr I know most people hate it but the bullpen by committee approach might be the Marlins best solution. Go with the hottest hand be it Pinto, Lindstrom or J. Miller. That never seems to work, though.
June 22, 200818 yr guys just be quiet, the reason beinfest has a job is because he isnt so reactionary. just leave him be
June 22, 200818 yr It's a shame this team really needs them to start... Tucker and Nolasco would both probably do well in the closers' role.
June 22, 200818 yr I know this isn't a popular opinion but Gregg has saved more games than he has lost for us he has hit a rough patch but I believe he will return to form I say we stick with him as closer for a while... if he struggle past the AS break I say we make a change to help our playoff run later this year I'm sticking behind Gregg for now
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