As Hotcorner stated before, it is all about value and how much money the player would make. Why would we trade Cantu when he is making near minimum? The reason Uggla keeps on being mentioned is he is due to make 6-7 million dollars in arbitration. Trust me Cantu is a lock for next year

Cantu won't be making near min. He'll be making a few million.

 

since when? Cantu I believe is making $2-3 million this season after arbitration. He is well worth it

 

You do realize that, with the bolded part, you just defeated your own arguement one sentence afterwards....

 

You said Cantu will be making close to the minimum (Which is false)

 

Rab said you are wrong because he'll be making a few mil (Which is true)

 

You say Rab is wrong because Cantu will make making a few mil

 

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uggla = more proven value, he has more years ownership left too. We can just trade them both and Jacobs I wouldnt mind. But really uggla jacobs and Willingham should be the ones to go even though will miss willy

As Hotcorner stated before, it is all about value and how much money the player would make. Why would we trade Cantu when he is making near minimum? The reason Uggla keeps on being mentioned is he is due to make 6-7 million dollars in arbitration. Trust me Cantu is a lock for next year

Cantu won't be making near min. He'll be making a few million.

 

since when? Cantu I believe is making $2-3 million this season after arbitration. He is well worth it

 

You do realize that, with the bolded part, you just defeated your own arguement one sentence afterwards....

 

You said Cantu will be making close to the minimum (Which is false)

 

Rab said you are wrong because he'll be making a few mil (Which is true)

 

You say Rab is wrong because Cantu will make making a few mil

 

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Cantu has played more at second base in his major league career than anywhere else. His fielding percentage there is better than he has achieved at third base. If Uggla is viewed as a top tier offensive second baseman, well, Cantu is even better. Trade Uggla.

 

 

This must be the ignorant post of the day.

That is an understatement

Uggla isn't that much better of a hitter than Cantu. Its not easy to have a high on base percentage hitting in front of Mike Jacobs anyhow....

As Hotcorner stated before, it is all about value and how much money the player would make. Why would we trade Cantu when he is making near minimum? The reason Uggla keeps on being mentioned is he is due to make 6-7 million dollars in arbitration. Trust me Cantu is a lock for next year

Cantu won't be making near min. He'll be making a few million.

 

since when? Cantu I believe is making $2-3 million this season after arbitration. He is well worth it

 

You do realize that, with the bolded part, you just defeated your own arguement one sentence afterwards....

 

You said Cantu will be making close to the minimum (Which is false)

 

Rab said you are wrong because he'll be making a few mil (Which is true)

 

You say Rab is wrong because Cantu will make making a few mil

 

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I relized i had made a mistake in the #'s, I apologize. But Cantu will not be traded. We can all agree on that

While I don't think he will be traded, I definitely can't say that he won't be.

While I don't think he will be traded, I definitely can't say that he won't be.

 

Unfortunetly, I can't disagree with this because everyone is tradeable. Fortunetly, Cantu is high on the Marlins list to retain. As is Amezega. Cantu made $500K last year and will get a decent bump in arbitration. Deservedly so. But not out of our price range.

 

Any talk of putting him at 2B is utter nonsense. After the ASB he was very good at 3B. Before the ASB he was learning the position. It was like 2 different defensive players.

 

BUT

 

It all depends on who is traded for what. If Jake leaves and we bring in no one else to fill his slot, either with that trade or via another trade, Cantu will be at 1B (Gaby will continue his developement, I believe) and probably Dallas gets his shot at 3B. I don't like that scenario, but once again it depends on what we get in return from other trades. And seeing Dallas got $425K last year and has never shown much of anything at the ML level, I doubt he gets much of a bump in arbitration.

 

My personal choice would be keep Cantu at 3B and fill the 1B slot with someone else. Test the market with Dallas and Andino. We could use some pen help next year (Gregg and Rhodes should both be gone due to financial restraints) and those two could bring us some decent arms to help a very young pen.

It all depends on who is traded for what. If Jake leaves and we bring in no one else to fill his slot, either with that trade or via another trade, Cantu will be at 1B (Gaby will continue his developement, I believe) and probably Dallas gets his shot at 3B. I don't like that scenario, but once again it depends on what we get in return from other trades. And seeing Dallas got $425K last year and has never shown much of anything at the ML level, I doubt he gets much of a bump in arbitration.

 

My personal choice would be keep Cantu at 3B and fill the 1B slot with someone else. Test the market with Dallas and Andino. We could use some pen help next year (Gregg and Rhodes should both be gone due to financial restraints) and those two could bring us some decent arms to help a very young pen.

Cantu cannot stay predominantly at 3B for defensive reasons. He is literally that bad. Dallas is a much better defender, and so is Helms in a pinch. The optimum orientation is, vs RHP Dallas (3B) Cantu/Sanchez (1B), vs LHP Cantu (3B), Sanchez (1B). Dallas slugs the crap out of RHP, Gaby and Cantu both have a lot of success vs LHP, and Cantu can predominantly play 1B vs RHP with Sanchez mixed in occasionally. It's a perfect platoon, especially with Helms behind all of them now who can pick up the slack vs LHP if someone is struggling.

 

And you are incredibly off with the pen. First, McPherson and Andino do not have a lot of trade value to bring back any arm better than what we currently have. They are of more value to us to see if they pan out at the MLB level, versus giving them away for an equally as skeptical RP prospect. Second, we have tons of RP options. Lindstrom, Pinto, and Nelson are basically locked for the pen. Our other internal options, in no order, are Kensing, Tankeresly, Tucker, Cruz, Owens, Gardner, Delgado, and maybe even Vanden Hurk. These are all big arms, and it's very likely at least 2 of them pan out into decent RP. Slightly behind them development wise, we have Mobley (our # 2 RP prospect behind Tucker), Wood, Doolittle, and Leroux who all have MLB quality arms and should be able to contribute by the middle of the year if all goes right. Not included here our are SP prospects - Thompson, Sinkbiel, West, Trahern, Badenhop, and if they keep Olsen, one of Anibal or Miller will be in the pen. I have no problem if they want to obtain someone else in one of the pending trades, but you make additions to the RP core through our arbitration class of players. Not trading AAA position players.

While I don't think he will be traded, I definitely can't say that he won't be.

 

Any talk of putting him at 2B is utter nonsense. After the ASB he was very good at 3B. Before the ASB he was learning the position. It was like 2 different defensive players.

 

 

In what way? Nonsense to suggest putting a player back at his natural position when we have other options at the two positions he played this past season?

My personal choice would be keep Cantu at 3B and fill the 1B slot with someone else. Test the market with Dallas and Andino. We could use some pen help next year (Gregg and Rhodes should both be gone due to financial restraints) and those two could bring us some decent arms to help a very young pen.

 

Cantu cannot stay predominantly at 3B for defensive reasons. He is literally that bad. Dallas is a much better defender, and so is Helms in a pinch. The optimum orientation is, vs RHP Dallas (3B) Cantu/Sanchez (1B), vs LHP Cantu (3B), Sanchez (1B). Dallas slugs the crap out of RHP, Gaby and Cantu both have a lot of success vs LHP, and Cantu can predominantly play 1B vs RHP with Sanchez mixed in occasionally. It's a perfect platoon, especially with Helms behind all of them now who can pick up the slack vs LHP if someone is struggling.

 

My only problem wit hthis proposal is that we would then have a platoon at both first and third...not an ideal situation in my mind no matter the righty/lefty splits. I could understand this year because we were trying to replace the void at third left by Miggy, and JAke was so woeful against lefty pitching.

 

However, both issues will not exist next season (because we proved we could replace Miggy's bat and upgrade the defense at the position, and Jake should be gone) thus there's no reason to platoon both positions. There simply is not enough playing time to go around in that situation, thus Gaby and Dallas would both suffer; young players need AB's and rep's in order to establish a groove, and I think this moove would negate the purpose of platooning in the first place.

 

Just my take.

My only problem wit hthis proposal is that we would then have a platoon at both first and third...not an ideal situation in my mind no matter the righty/lefty splits. I could understand this year because we were trying to replace the void at third left by Miggy, and JAke was so woeful against lefty pitching.

 

However, both issues will not exist next season (because we proved we could replace Miggy's bat and upgrade the defense at the position, and Jake should be gone) thus there's no reason to platoon both positions. There simply is not enough playing time to go around in that situation, thus Gaby and Dallas would both suffer; young players need AB's and rep's in order to establish a groove, and I think this moove would negate the purpose of platooning in the first place.

 

Just my take.

It's absolutely an ideal situation. They have to promote McPherson or they lose him. McPherson isn't going to hit LHP very hard, but he's probably going to be one of the best bats on the team vs RHP. He's going to whiff a ton, but he's going to hit a lot of random HR and BB his ass off like he always has. Stick him 7th or 8th, and just let him rip. You just literally have to take him out of the lineup vs LHP. Now, you can do this with Helms and have a McPherson/Helms 3B platoon and just leave Cantu at 1B, I'm not entirely opposed to that, but Gaby is probably going to hit more than Helms at this point and should hit about as good as Cantu vs RHP with better defense at 1B, so getting him out there is to the organization's advantage. You split 1B Cantu/Gaby vs RHP, Gaby LHP, and 3B McPherson RHP and Cantu LHP, and your offense and defense increases while givings tons of AB to everyone. That general "platoon" (which I don't understand why a lot of you associate as a bad thing) gives Cantu around 550 PA, McPherson 450, and G. Sanchez 400. That is more than enough for the young player's progression, and probably helps them, because it shields them against their largest weaknesses while letting them get their feet wet. Let them build confidence and exposure to the league against what they are best suited to play against. All three are imperfect players. Cantu has low OBP potential and is horrible defensively at 3B. McPherson is useless against LHP and is an all or nothing guy like Jacobs. Gaby has very low slugging, even if he should produce a fun average. None of these guys are longterm starters. You mix and match them for the best possible production. You take advantage of McPherson vs RHP, Cantu and Gaby's ability to hit LHP and to play defense at 1B. It's that easy. And if one or two of them take off, or some fails miserably, you then reassess the situation and roll with it. We literally could not be in better shape for 2009 at 1B and 3B. A solid vet, an older player who was a top prospect trying to get back into the league, and an advanced college prospect coming off one of the best hitting lines in AA.

 

And to distinguish another situation, Gaby and Dallas, are much different than Maybin and Coghlan who you can leave alone at CF and 2B. Those are players who project to be longterm starters at their position. Dallas, is always going to be the classic bash happy slugger and totally exposed to lefties. Gaby doesn't have the power potential to play 1B longterm. You don't want them out there everyday. It's very unlikely either turns into Josh Hamilton. Maybin and Coghlan though, are potential everyday players. If you bring them up, just let them rip everyday and see what happens. Sitting them in the bigs (like what the Marlins did with Andino this season), versus sending them to AAA, would adversely effect their development into a starting player.

My only problem wit hthis proposal is that we would then have a platoon at both first and third...not an ideal situation in my mind no matter the righty/lefty splits. I could understand this year because we were trying to replace the void at third left by Miggy, and JAke was so woeful against lefty pitching.

 

However, both issues will not exist next season (because we proved we could replace Miggy's bat and upgrade the defense at the position, and Jake should be gone) thus there's no reason to platoon both positions. There simply is not enough playing time to go around in that situation, thus Gaby and Dallas would both suffer; young players need AB's and rep's in order to establish a groove, and I think this moove would negate the purpose of platooning in the first place.

 

Just my take.

It's absolutely an ideal situation. They have to promote McPherson or they lose him. McPherson isn't going to hit LHP very hard, but he's probably going to be one of the best bats on the team vs RHP. He's going to whiff a ton, but he's going to hit a lot of random HR and BB his ass off like he always has. Stick him 7th or 8th, and just let him rip. You just literally have to take him out of the lineup vs LHP. Now, you can do this with Helms and have a McPherson/Helms 3B platoon and just leave Cantu at 1B, I'm not entirely opposed to that, but Gaby is probably going to hit more than Helms at this point and should hit about as good as Cantu vs RHP with better defense at 1B, so getting him out there is to the organization's advantage. You split 1B Cantu/Gaby vs RHP, Gaby LHP, and 3B McPherson RHP and Cantu LHP, and your offense and defense increases while givings tons of AB to everyone. That general "platoon" (which I don't understand why a lot of you associate as a bad thing) gives Cantu around 550 PA, McPherson 450, and G. Sanchez 400. That is more than enough for the young player's progression, and probably helps them, because it shields them against their largest weaknesses while letting them get their feet wet. Let them build confidence and exposure to the league against what they are best suited to play against. All three are imperfect players. Cantu has low OBP potential and is horrible defensively at 3B. McPherson is useless against LHP and is an all or nothing guy like Jacobs. Gaby has very low slugging, even if he should produce a fun average. None of these guys are longterm starters. You mix and match them for the best possible production. You take advantage of McPherson vs RHP, Cantu and Gaby's ability to hit LHP and to play defense at 1B. It's that easy. And if one or two of them take off, or some fails miserably, you then reassess the situation and roll with it. We literally could not be in better shape for 2009 at 1B and 3B. A solid vet, an older player who was a top prospect trying to get back into the league, and an advanced college prospect coming off one of the best hitting lines in AA.

 

And to distinguish another situation, Gaby and Dallas, are much different than Maybin and Coghlan who you can leave alone at CF and 2B. Those are players who project to be longterm starters at their position. Dallas, is always going to be the classic bash happy slugger and totally exposed to lefties. Gaby doesn't have the power potential to play 1B longterm. You don't want them out there everyday. It's very unlikely either turns into Josh Hamilton. Maybin and Coghlan though, are potential everyday players. If you bring them up, just let them rip everyday and see what happens. Sitting them in the bigs (like what the Marlins did with Andino this season), versus sending them to AAA, would adversely effect their development into a starting player.

 

MarlinsLou you keep promoting a platooning and I think the Marlins won't do that. McPherson will play 3B Cantu will play 2B and Gaby will play 1B .Gabys' # are great against leftis and rightis his SLG in AA was .513 and his doubles have increased every year as well as HR and RBI .He will hit 40+ doubles and 25 to 35 HR and 100+ RBI .Helm will be there to back up 3B and I think Gaby has the power potential to play 1B and hit in the middle of the line up like his done every year in the minor league.That is why Fredy call him a hitting machine .This is one of the kids I been following for 3 years and his done it at every level.I don't understand why this forum is not high on this kid but they will next year.

MarlinsLou you keep promoting a platooning and I think the Marlins won't do that. McPherson will play 3B Cantu will play 2B and Gaby will play 1B .Gabys' # are great against leftis and rightis his SLG in AA was .513 and his doubles have increased every year as well as HR and RBI .He will hit 40+ doubles and 25 to 35 HR and 100+ RBI .Helm will be there to back up 3B and I think Gaby has the power potential to play 1B and hit in the middle of the line up like his done every year in the minor league.That is why Fredy call him a hitting machine .This is one of the kids I been following for 3 years and his done it at every level.I don't understand why this forum is not high on this kid but they will next year.

Cantu is not playing 2B. Gaby doesn't display over .500 slugging potential in the majors. All of his success is against lefties, and he posts modest power (.438 slugging) against right handers. He's a MLB bat for sure, but it's very doubtful he can get over 20. Maybe in a peak year or two like Sean Casey, but that's about it.

While I don't think he will be traded, I definitely can't say that he won't be.

 

Any talk of putting him at 2B is utter nonsense. After the ASB he was very good at 3B. Before the ASB he was learning the position. It was like 2 different defensive players.

 

 

In what way? Nonsense to suggest putting a player back at his natural position when we have other options at the two positions he played this past season?

2B isn't his natural position. He was actually a shortstop for almost all of his minor league career, with a bit a 3B and 2B thrown in there. He was moved to 2B because Lugo was a SS.

 

That said, he's pathetically bad at 2B. He's probably even worse, since he hasn't played any real time at 2B since 2006.

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

 

yea, marlinsLou is smart as hell. And that platoon he mentioned is very good.

Cantu is not playing 2B. Gaby doesn't display over .500 slugging potential in the majors. All of his success is against lefties, and he posts modest power (.438 slugging) against right handers. He's a MLB bat for sure, but it's very doubtful he can get over 20. Maybe in a peak year or two like Sean Casey, but that's about it.

 

his first major league game was against Redding I think is righty and he went 3 for 5 with 2 doubles no lefty in that game . Small sample but good things to come.What's wrong with .500 and your looking at last years # only .only 20 HR that sounds like when the forum was saying that AA would do him in ,and he would not hit 40 doubles again or hit more than 10 HR or more than 60 RBI. ALL WRONG

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

 

Last time I look baseball is not played platooning I think it's football

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

 

Last time I look baseball is not played platooning I think it's football

What?

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

 

yea, marlinsLou is smart as hell. And that platoon he mentioned is very good.

Not to stroke him some more, but Lou is probably the smartest baseball guy here.

his first major league game was against Redding I think is righty and he went 3 for 5 with 2 doubles no lefty in that game . Small sample but good things to come.What's wrong with .500 and your looking at last years # only .only 20 HR that sounds like when the forum was saying that AA would do him in ,and he would not hit 40 doubles again or hit more than 10 HR or more than 60 RBI. ALL WRONG

You didn't see me saying that, I always thought he could be in the Sean Casey mold. I'm just extremely confident he doesn't turn into Justin Morneau or Adrian Gonzalez, which you seem to think with that power. It's very very unlikely he becomes an annual 30 HR hitter. His best skills are contact, good OBP potential, and moderate power with a lot of gap capabilities.

 

Last time I look baseball is not played platooning I think it's football

This is a very ignorant comment because young players are routinely pared with veterans to ease them in. If they succeed, the platoon goes away. When you have an opportunity to bring up your kids in positive conditions and not through them into day to day situations where they are probably overmatched, you do it.

his first major league game was against Redding I think is righty and he went 3 for 5 with 2 doubles no lefty in that game . Small sample but good things to come.What's wrong with .500 and your looking at last years # only .only 20 HR that sounds like when the forum was saying that AA would do him in ,and he would not hit 40 doubles again or hit more than 10 HR or more than 60 RBI. ALL WRONG

You didn't see me saying that, I always thought he could be in the Sean Casey mold. I'm just extremely confident he doesn't turn into Justin Morneau or Adrian Gonzalez, which you seem to think with that power. It's very very unlikely he becomes an annual 30 HR hitter. His best skills are contact, good OBP potential, and moderate power with a lot of gap capabilities.

 

Last time I look baseball is not played platooning I think it's football

This is a very ignorant comment because young players are routinely pared with veterans to ease them in. If they succeed, the platoon goes away. When you have an opportunity to bring up your kids in positive conditions and not through them into day to day situations where they are probably overmatched, you do it.

 

Like john baker. At first, he was in a platoon. Then, eventually he won the job and produced big time

I wish MarlinsLou worked for the Marlins organization.

I'm not sure if the Marlins would do the 1B/3B platoon, but that platoon certainly makes sense. All 3 would get the chance to play (with Cantu getting the most AB's of the 3)...all 3 would see time at their respective strong defensive positions. All 3 would increase their trade value, when it's all said and done.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

 

Last time I look baseball is not played platooning I think it's football

 

Wrong.

Another thing to consider, and I'm sure the Marlins have considered it, is the fact Uggla is under club control a full season longer than Cantu is. Then again, there are always payroll concerns when it comes to the Marlins. But if the Marlins want to shave off some millions it seems easier to approach replacing the production of Cantu at 3B than the production of Uggla at 2B. And both are set to be awarded multimillion dollar contracts in arbitration this offseason.

 

If you are trying to keep the Marlins competitive in 2009 it seems like a no brainer. If you trade Uggla and move Cantu to 2B you have an automatic downgrade offensively and defensively. Same goes if Coghlan is moved to second in the place of Uggla. And offensively, Uggla is a step above Cantu. So, you trade Cantu if trading Mike Jacobs (which seems like a foregone conclusion at this point) and Willingham (ditto) doesn't cut it when it comes to paring down payroll and making way for Sanchez and Maybin.

 

There are those who have been on the trade-Uggla-now-his-value-has-peaked train since the end of the 2006 season. But has he folded like those in that cadre thought he would? After the 2006 season? After the 2007 season? No. He continues to rake and play the most solid defense in our infield. Yet still many of you want to sell him down the river.