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according to foxsports:

 

Sources: Marlins still working to get Pirates closer

by Jon Paul Morosi...is a national MLB writer for FOXSports.com.

 

In need of bullpen help, the Marlins have maintained contact with the Pirates about closer Matt Capps, sources said Wednesday.

 

But the sides aren't close to a deal, in large part because Pittsburgh seems to have little interest in outfielder Jeremy Hermida, one of Florida's primary trade chips.

 

The Marlins have already included Hermida in an offer for Capps, sources said, but the Pirates declined. It's not clear if other players were involved on either end.

 

Financially, at least, the two players would have made for a straightforward 1-for-1 deal: Capps is earning $2.3 million this year, Hermida $2.25 million. Both players are on track to enter free agency after the 2011 season.

 

With closer Matt Lindstrom on the disabled list, the Marlins would like to stabilize their bullpen. Capps, who has converted 19 of 21 save opportunities this year, is one of their top choices. He is 1-4 with a 4.71 ERA in 31 appearances.

 

Pittsburgh is still sorting through suitors for Capps, although one source said the Pirates don't appear entirely certain that they will move him before the July 31 trade deadline.

 

Hermida's slugging percentage has declined since last year, although he remains a formidable left-handed hitter with a .249 average, eight home runs and 30 RBIs. He's become more expendable recently because of Brett Carroll's development in the big leagues and Cameron Maybin's presence at Triple-A.

 

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9787154/Sources:-Marlins-still-working-to-get-Pirates-closer

If we are going to trade Hermida, at least include him in a decent deal. I mean trading away a relatively respectable bat for a "closer" is not the way to go. I would far rather go for a closer committee than overpay to have a designated guy.

Why would you trade an outfielder for a decent closer?

 

It's a bad deal IMO.

  • Author

(I'm asking rhetorically) Why not? If you're a decision-maker in a front office and you have knowledge your closer may not be coming back as soon as anticipated or his ailment isn't as "temporary" as the outside world thinks, regardless of the thoughts on this board that anyone can close, and you want one guy for the rest of the season you can go to night after night, I don't see why an outfielder is by definition not a suitable trade candidate. Forget who that player is, it's unimportant here. At this time of the season competitive teams have to make trade-offs in personnel if the playoffs are the organizational goal and this is just an example of that. Keep in mind it's the Marlins who are offering Hermida and not the other way around.

 

We traded Jacobs for Nunez. We can trade Hermida for Capps except the other side isn't interested. This is after all the team that killed the Manny to the Marlins deal last season by demanding Stanton along with I believe Hermida, and the latter certainly hasn't improved his worth in 2009 with a big raise and weakening output.

 

Talent-wise, I'll let others decide whether the deal makes sense because admittedly I don't know enough about Capps to form an opinion but I'm suggesting these hard and fast rules are made to be broken if the team gets better because of it.

 

edit: I just noticed that Henry Owens is back on the DL again with a sore shoulder. I mention this only in the context of one less projectible summer callup arm they might have been counting on.

I think offense is more of a need than bullpen and as disappointing as Hermida has being I doubt that if he's traded and we replace him internally that his replacement would out produce him.

Thank God they said no.

If nothing else this pretty much confirms the fact that the FO has lost all confidence in Hermida.

If nothing else this pretty much confirms the fact that the FO has lost all confidence in Hermida.

 

Well if you listened to any of the interveiws with beinfest or hill in the offseason they pretty much said that this was hermidas last year to prove he's what they thought he was gonna be. I'm assuming they want that 2nd half of 07 hermi.

If nothing else this pretty much confirms the fact that the FO has lost all confidence in Hermida.

 

Well if you listened to any of the interveiws with beinfest or hill in the offseason they pretty much said that this was hermidas last year to prove he's what they thought he was gonna be. I'm assuming they want that 2nd half of 07 hermi.

 

And when Beinfest was answering trade questions on email tuesday a couple of weeks ago, he stated that he'll call up maybin when the opportunity comes (trading hermida away IS the opportunity). If you ask me, I only see one flaw in this idea. Instead of just trading away hermida and assume Maybin can already produce, why not call him up and see if he can. If he cant, keep hermida, if he can, then go ahead and trade jeremy. Dont just assume maybin will produce like the "2003" version of juan pierre.

(I'm asking rhetorically) Why not? If you're a decision-maker in a front office and you have knowledge your closer may not be coming back as soon as anticipated or his ailment isn't as "temporary" as the outside world thinks, regardless of the thoughts on this board that anyone can close, and you want one guy for the rest of the season you can go to night after night, I don't see why an outfielder is by definition not a suitable trade candidate. Forget who that player is, it's unimportant here. At this time of the season competitive teams have to make trade-offs in personnel if the playoffs are the organizational goal and this is just an example of that. Keep in mind it's the Marlins who are offering Hermida and not the other way around.

 

We traded Jacobs for Nunez. We can trade Hermida for Capps except the other side isn't interested. This is after all the team that killed the Manny to the Marlins deal last season by demanding Stanton along with I believe Hermida, and the latter certainly hasn't improved his worth in 2009 with a big raise and weakening output.

 

Talent-wise, I'll let others decide whether the deal makes sense because admittedly I don't know enough about Capps to form an opinion but I'm suggesting these hard and fast rules are made to be broken if the team gets better because of it.

 

edit: I just noticed that Henry Owens is back on the DL again with a sore shoulder. I mention this only in the context of one less projectible summer callup arm they might have been counting on.

 

Why not?

 

Current Bullpen (Badenhop is splitted out as a reliever)

 

Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, Donnelly - 190.1 IP, 2.74 era, 1.23 whip (148 H, 86 BB)

Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, and LINDSTROM - 218.1 IP, 3.25 era, 1.32 whip (182 H, 106 BB)

 

June-July Totals for current bullpen

 

Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, Donnelly - 68.1 IP, 2.24 era, 1.24 whip (53 H, 32 BB)

Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, and LINDSTROM - 75.2 IP, 2.38 era, 1.34 whip (66 H, 35 BB)

 

June-July Individual

Nunez 10.1 IP, 4.36 era, 1.45 whip

Meyer 10 IP, .90 era, .90 whip

Calero 6.1 IP, 1.42 era, 1.26 whip

Pinto 8.2 IP, 4.16 era, 1.27 whip

Sanches 13.1 IP, 2.03 era, 1.58 whip

Badenhop 18.2 IP, 1.45 era, 1.07 whip (!!!!!)

Donnelly 1 IP, 0 era, 1 whip

Lindstrom 8.1 IP, 3.25 era, 2.04 whip

 

So Sanches is slowing down a little, and Nunez got hit around an extra game or two. Bullpen is fine. Even if 2-3 of these guys fall apart, we still have Lindstrom and Anibal on the DL, RVH killing AAA, Wood looks solid, and the newbies with Ayala and Williamson. Something is going to stick, and we already have talent. Owens was never going to be in the picture.

 

Per your other comment, Capps is good. And in a vacuum moving Hermida for him isn't a necessarily 'horrible' deal (despite the fact Capps has elevated value just because he gets saves and would cost a stupid amount in arbitration to get 70 innings for him next year), but we don't need relievers right now. We need a 3B and one OF slot upgrades. That's my complaint. They can move Hermida, and lord knows I have supported him as much as anyone and am upset he never panned, but they need to move him in the right deal. That's all.

  • Author

Just keep in mind there are not an unlimited number of roster spots.

And when Beinfest was answering trade questions on email tuesday a couple of weeks ago, he stated that he'll call up maybin when the opportunity comes (trading hermida away IS the opportunity)

 

If the Marlins call Maybin up before July 20th, Maybin would accrue more than a year of service time by the end of this season if he stays with the club here on out. That means he'd become a free agent after 2014, instead of 2015. That's a BIG deal for a few weeks of games in 2009. That's the first 'obstacle' in calling up Maybin. Not clearing space with Hermida or Coghlan.

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Exactly. He's unlike other players and the circumstance around him coming up are much more complex than for others. Personally I'd like him to stay in AAA all season or until it's just plain embarrassing to have him there.

Exactly. He's unlike other players and the circumstance around him coming up are much more complex than for others. Personally I'd like him to stay in AAA all season or until it's just plain embarrassing to have him there.

 

Well July 20th is the first major deadline versus having him for 2015 or not.

 

The second deadline is, if you call him up July 20th-August20ish (you never know where the 17% of playing time falls), you then prevent him from being a Super 2. You call him up in late August, or let's just say September, he will not be a Super 2 and they'll have him club controlled 2010, 2011, and 2012. Which is insane. That's saving millions.

And when Beinfest was answering trade questions on email tuesday a couple of weeks ago, he stated that he'll call up maybin when the opportunity comes (trading hermida away IS the opportunity)

 

If the Marlins call Maybin up before July 20th, Maybin would accrue more than a year of service time by the end of this season if he stays with the club here on out. That means he'd become a free agent after 2014, instead of 2015. That's a BIG deal for a few weeks of games in 2009. That's the first 'obstacle' in calling up Maybin. Not clearing space with Hermida or Coghlan.

I agree with you. Thats why the marlins FO need to be damn sure their going to the playoffs this season if there going to give up a full year of service from maybin.

And when Beinfest was answering trade questions on email tuesday a couple of weeks ago, he stated that he'll call up maybin when the opportunity comes (trading hermida away IS the opportunity)

 

If the Marlins call Maybin up before July 20th, Maybin would accrue more than a year of service time by the end of this season if he stays with the club here on out. That means he'd become a free agent after 2014, instead of 2015. That's a BIG deal for a few weeks of games in 2009. That's the first 'obstacle' in calling up Maybin. Not clearing space with Hermida or Coghlan.

I agree with you. Thats why the marlins FO need to be damn sure their going to the playoffs this season if there going to give up a full year of service from maybin.

I'm 100% confident Maybin isn't making or breaking our playoff hopes now until July 20th, and we don't see him called back until after that date.

And when Beinfest was answering trade questions on email tuesday a couple of weeks ago, he stated that he'll call up maybin when the opportunity comes (trading hermida away IS the opportunity)

 

If the Marlins call Maybin up before July 20th, Maybin would accrue more than a year of service time by the end of this season if he stays with the club here on out. That means he'd become a free agent after 2014, instead of 2015. That's a BIG deal for a few weeks of games in 2009. That's the first 'obstacle' in calling up Maybin. Not clearing space with Hermida or Coghlan.

I agree with you. Thats why the marlins FO need to be damn sure their going to the playoffs this season if there going to give up a full year of service from maybin.

I'm 100% confident Maybin isn't making or breaking our playoff hopes now until July 20th, and we don't see him called back until after that date.

So then what is the point of trading hermida NOW, if your not going to bring maybin up until July 20th, which is about 11 days away (8 major league games)?

Once again Marlin fans OVER RATING Jeremy Hermida. He isn't even worth Matt Capps now! You guys have no realistic sense of trade value for a corner outfielder who can NOT drive in runs.

 

Hermida is a #4 outfielder and isn't worth even a low rate closer- hate to tell you "I told you so".

So then what is the point of trading hermida NOW, if your not going to bring maybin up until July 20th, which is about 11 days away (8 major league games)?

 

 

We have warm bodies who can fill in the OF for two weeks. If its a good deal you take it: don't wait for the other team to change their mind or find a better offer.

 

Moving Herm for bullpen help isn't the worst idea in the world, IMO. But many here did predict a mid-season move for bullpen help. Part of the reason not signing Rhodes stung so bad - instead of giving up cash in the off-season, we now have to give up a starter or strong prospect.

Once again Marlin fans OVER RATING Jeremy Hermida. He isn't even worth Matt Capps now! You guys have no realistic sense of trade value for a corner outfielder who can NOT drive in runs.

 

Hermida is a #4 outfielder and isn't worth even a low rate closer- hate to tell you "I told you so".

 

When hermida was drafted I cursed the front office for taken him over kamir at the time they stated it was about money but in the end they both signed for about the same, now years later we all know they made a big mistake

stop the bullpen madness!!!

Once again Marlin fans OVER RATING Jeremy Hermida. He isn't even worth Matt Capps now! You guys have no realistic sense of trade value for a corner outfielder who can NOT drive in runs.

 

Hermida is a #4 outfielder and isn't worth even a low rate closer- hate to tell you "I told you so".

 

When hermida was drafted I cursed the front office for taken him over kamir at the time they stated it was about money but in the end they both signed for about the same, now years later we all know they made a big mistake

Kazmir is having an awful year.

Once again Marlin fans OVER RATING Jeremy Hermida. He isn't even worth Matt Capps now! You guys have no realistic sense of trade value for a corner outfielder who can NOT drive in runs.

 

Hermida is a #4 outfielder and isn't worth even a low rate closer- hate to tell you "I told you so".

 

Do you read?

Im the beginning, I thought we needed to trade for relief help. And we did. But the FO did a great job by signing Ayala, who I think will help alot. And now we have Kiko coming back. The bullpen is NOT our problem. We need a BAT! Hell, go out and sign B.J Ryan instead of giving up Hermida. That would be plain stupid by the FO.

Why would the Marlins bother trading for a closer (and be forced to give up someone like Sanchez, Hermida, or Ross) when they could just sign BJ Ryan instead?

 

If Matt Lindstrom doesn't pitch with the Marlins this season again, I won't lose a lot of sleep.

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