What if he has another great 2nd half? Then what, everyone will want him to stay and the second he doesn't do great he's a bust and a waste of money.

 

 

Let's hope he does. This lineup needs another consistently productive bat in the lineup and it might as well be Hermida as anyone else.

 

And it looks more and more like that won't happen. More like that span in '07 was his "career year." And yet his followers are going to point to that and say, "but in '07 he......", and "he's only 25...." Bah. Do we never learn from our past with other players? Forget all that we may want. Look at how the FO and coaches are approaching it and have been approaching it. Last year, last off season, and this year. "They're idiots, I know better", is not going to play out so well.

 

He is far removed from the learning curve. He either produces or he is gone. And he is not. He is far too apprehensive at the plate and in the field for this level of play. I thought the move to LF and with the prospects getting close would have him looking over his shoulder and try harder to show he belongs here. It either hasn't or he just isn't capable of turning it up. If he is here August 1st it's because we couldn't find anyone to take him without throwing in a top prospect to go along with him. That's what the FO has been showing us. And maybe a trade is the best thing to happen to him.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

We might as well give up

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

The reason being for that is that Bonifacio is "electric" he makes things happen with his speed and motivates the team. On the other hand, Hermida has nothing going for him, he's 25, he's still out there dropping fly balls and trying to show us he can hit. We can't be waiting around forever on him, we've already been waiting for what? 4 years? I haven't believed in the guy since day one, I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his potential.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

The reason being for that is that Bonifacio is "electric" he makes things happen with his speed and motivates the team. On the other hand, Hermida has nothing going for him, he's 25, he's still out there dropping fly balls and trying to show us he can hit. We can't be waiting around forever on him, we've already been waiting for what? 4 years? I haven't believed in the guy since day one, I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his potential.

 

LOL! Electric. You're funny. Bonifacio doesn't do sh!t with his speed. He hardly gets on base, and when he does, he's a retart on the base paths. Bonifacio hasn't done anything so far to warrant playing time.

Hermida, on the other hand, showed us the potential he is capable of in 2007, when he was 22. Right now, he is only 25. You do NOT give up on a player this early into his career.

I'd be shocked if we got anything of value in return for Hermida. I don't think he has any trade value whatsoever.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

The reason being for that is that Bonifacio is "electric" he makes things happen with his speed and motivates the team. On the other hand, Hermida has nothing going for him, he's 25, he's still out there dropping fly balls and trying to show us he can hit. We can't be waiting around forever on him, we've already been waiting for what? 4 years? I haven't believed in the guy since day one, I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his potential.

 

LOL! Electric. You're funny. Bonifacio doesn't do sh!t with his speed. He hardly gets on base, and when he does, he's a retart on the base paths. Bonifacio hasn't done anything so far to warrant playing time.

Hermida, on the other hand, showed us the potential he is capable of in 2007, when he was 22. Right now, he is only 25. You do NOT give up on a player this early into his career.

What I'm trying to say is that Bonifacio has speed that your not going to find around for a very long time, he can make things happen which is why they're willing to work with him. Hermida did have a great 2007 but he's fallen ever since, you either have to let the guy go or he has to take a minor league option(if he even has one) to work on his stuff, he can't keep letting the team down like this, and it's not only his offense, but his defense sucks! He messes up on things you learn in little league!

Bill James, a baseball genius now working for the Red Sox once said along time ago, your not gaining anything unless you successfully steal 70% of your attempts. Bonifacio's at 38%. So even his speed is making him worse in a way. He does run fast, but he does make some retarded base running errors.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

 

It always comes down to this and it makes zero sense. Comparing two players who share little in common.

 

Hermida was a high draft pick and from day one on the fast track thru the minors to MLB. He's playing his position of choice, he makes millions of dollars (which is the root problem, performance vs pay), has four years experience which translates into making millions more in upcoming years. Justifiably, he's held to a higher standard, more is expected of him. Worse for him, he had a period of eleven weeks in 2007 when he played incredible baseball and since then perhaps unfairly, he's been judged by that summer as the standard of play expected. If he had turned what started out to be a lousy year for him (2007) into a good but not spectacular one (say he wound up hitting .279 that season instead of .299) fans would have said he had a good year and expected less the next. He's become a victim of his own success.

 

Hermida fans seem compelled to trot out 2007 as the answer to every complaint or comment they don't like about their favorite player. "Look what he did in 2007" is a line repeated in one form or another here a thousand times at least. I think it's actually detrimental to their case.

 

This is after all about expectations. The guy who hits ten homeruns in a month is expected to hit ten homeruns EVERY month.

 

Bonifacio is in his first year in the bigs, he makes the minimum or close to it and he's playing out of position by necessity not choice. There's a guy already playing where he should be playing that's pretty good and the manager said "go play there" so he did. It's on the job training for him and he's under a microscope, the product of an unpopular trade involving a popular Marlin (or two depending on your POV) and so many here prejudged him from the beginning staking out positions that demanded he fail so they could be right before they could even pronounce or spell his name. Having never played the position before he is on a steep learning curve, I don't know how anyone can deny that or hold that against him.

 

Two players could not have begun their first seasons with the Fish more differently and with more different fan expectations. And as for where they are on their respective learning curves, one has been playing his position more or less his entire career and the other for roughly three months.

 

Comparing the two is ridiculous, suggesting their learning curves are similar is ridiculous as well. Hermida's woes have as much to do with the salary structure in MLB as anything else, what he may need, here or elsewhere is to get off the arbitration merry-go-round and sign a reasonable multi-year deal he can live up to and then go about having a career. Unfortunately that probably isn't going to happen here so that's one of the reasons he stands a good chance of being traded by the deadline or after the season ends.

So five years from now when Jeremy Hermida still can't play defense or get a hit of a lefty starting pitcher will people on here be going.....he's only 30? I wouldn't take a platoon player for a closer either so the Pirates aren't as dumb as people think they are. The Padres might be willing to take Hermida or maybe the Mariners but I don't see him having much value in the trade market. Corner outfielders that can't knock in at least 70 runs are not very valuable, period.

2003, you wrote a nice long post with some good points, especially the "root problem", which is indeed money. Even as a Hermida "fan" (really, just as a Marlins fan who wants what's best for the team going forward, and who feels that Hermida fits that bill with our current roster), I think $4 million may just be too much money on this team.

 

However, I think you dwell a bit to much on his position change and how it affects the "learning curve". I think that Bonifacio's defense is not nearly as big an issue with Marlins fans. The issue is still his offensive production, a topic you manage to avoid completely. I don't see how having to play 3B should affect his offense. And, regardless of whether 3B is his preferred position, the Marlins must maximize their overall production; and, there are potential candidates to play 3B whose overall production, mainly as a result of superior offensive abilities, would [far] surpass Bonifacio [at this point].

 

Also, we're making a bigtime judgment call if/when we say that a 25-year-old with a good chunk of Major League experience has moved past the learning curve while a 24-year-old with significantly less Major League experience is still learning. I don't think you are basing the difference in assessments merely off of the fact that Hermida is 1 year older (even if you were, that should be a somewhat small difference). With that in mind, how can we really know how MLB vs. MiLB time affected the two players (or any other players) in question? Maybe Hermida would be better if he spent more time in the minors. Maybe he'd be worse. Same for EB. I don't really know how we can use that to differentiate, except in that Hermida has been "frustrating" Marlins fans for longer than EB has.

 

Looking to the future without consideration for this year, trading Hermida as soon as a good deal comes along might be best; however, we are currently in the playoff race, and I don't see us getting anything in return in a trade (unless we give up a sigifniciant prospect) which will help improve the team's overall production [from that 1 roster spot] as much as a [properly-used] Jeremy Hermida will.

i HAVE TO RUN, i'M LATE BUT A) i JUST PLAIN FORGOT TO MENTION bONIFACIO'S OFFENSE (OOPS) B) the age thing wasm't even a factor in my thinking, rather MLB experience time.

 

But you're points are valid.

Bill James, a baseball genius now working for the Red Sox once said along time ago, your not gaining anything unless you successfully steal 70% of your attempts. Bonifacio's at 38%. So even his speed is making him worse in a way. He does run fast, but he does make some retarded base running errors.

 

He is 18 of 25 in stolen bases, which is 72%. Not sure where the 38% comes from.

send hermida down to AAA let him get back to how he was in 2007.

For now, all the franchise should ask for is to dump his 10M due in the next 2 years and hopefully get a couple of medium prospects back, perhaps one MLB ready by September if needed. I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M available over Hermida. I wish him well wherever he goes.

 

Lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?

 

 

Realistically right now we likely wouldn't get much at all for Hermida.

 

Only two out of 30 clubs showed interest and both weren't offering much, probably a couple of medium prospects (c+ to b-)

 

Combined with Uggla very likely not having anywhere near our perceived value (said that he did not have much value at all this offseason because of how bad he was after the ASB, and he has basically the same line this season), and a few other nuisances (like Cantu's power outage, Amezaga being done, likely needing to keep Cody, ect), I'm definitely begining to wonder if we'll be able to restock our farm like we thought we would be able to.

 

 

We're fighting for a playoff spot.

You mentioned how our bats have struggled...we can't afford to just give one away for a couple of C+ prospects.

Wait, hold on a second. You're telling me Hermida, who is 25, is FAR removed from the learning curve, but Bonifacio isn't? Bonifacio is 24 years old. And if you bring up the fact that he is actually hitting the ball now, let me remind you about 2007. You know, when Hermida was 22 years old, and was good for more than 2 weeks.

 

If Hermida is gone because he isn't producing and is far from the learning curve, then Bonifacio should have been gone the first day of June.

 

The reason being for that is that Bonifacio is "electric" he makes things happen with his speed and motivates the team. On the other hand, Hermida has nothing going for him, he's 25, he's still out there dropping fly balls and trying to show us he can hit. We can't be waiting around forever on him, we've already been waiting for what? 4 years? I haven't believed in the guy since day one, I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his potential.

 

You're crazy. I mean you had to like him in his stint in 05 where he hit 4 Home runs and his 1st hit was a grand slam.

For now, all the franchise should ask for is to dump his 10M due in the next 2 years and hopefully get a couple of medium prospects back, perhaps one MLB ready by September if needed. I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M available over Hermida. I wish him well wherever he goes.

 

Lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?

 

 

Realistically right now we likely wouldn't get much at all for Hermida.

 

Only two out of 30 clubs showed interest and both weren't offering much, probably a couple of medium prospects (c+ to b-)

 

Combined with Uggla very likely not having anywhere near our perceived value (said that he did not have much value at all this offseason because of how bad he was after the ASB, and he has basically the same line this season), and a few other nuisances (like Cantu's power outage, Amezaga being done, likely needing to keep Cody, ect), I'm definitely begining to wonder if we'll be able to restock our farm like we thought we would be able to.

 

 

We're fighting for a playoff spot.

You mentioned how our bats have struggled...we can't afford to just give one away for a couple of C+ prospects.

 

You said "lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?", and nothing about what taking Hermidas bat out of our line up would do right now. That's implying that you're only talking about the return we would get, and unless Hermida has a big second half that's looking to be about what we should look at in return.

For now, all the franchise should ask for is to dump his 10M due in the next 2 years and hopefully get a couple of medium prospects back, perhaps one MLB ready by September if needed. I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M available over Hermida. I wish him well wherever he goes.

 

Lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?

 

 

Realistically right now we likely wouldn't get much at all for Hermida.

 

Only two out of 30 clubs showed interest and both weren't offering much, probably a couple of medium prospects (c+ to b-)

 

Combined with Uggla very likely not having anywhere near our perceived value (said that he did not have much value at all this offseason because of how bad he was after the ASB, and he has basically the same line this season), and a few other nuisances (like Cantu's power outage, Amezaga being done, likely needing to keep Cody, ect), I'm definitely begining to wonder if we'll be able to restock our farm like we thought we would be able to.

 

 

We're fighting for a playoff spot.

You mentioned how our bats have struggled...we can't afford to just give one away for a couple of C+ prospects.

 

You said "lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?", and nothing about what taking Hermidas bat out of our line up would do right now. That's implying that you're only talking about the return we would get, and unless Hermida has a big second half that's looking to be about what we should look at in return.

 

 

He said we should just trade Hermida for a bunch of a couple of medium prospects.

 

I said are you kidding me b/c there's no way in hell that makes us better this year. It's no secret Hermida's trade value isn't high right now. A corner OF'er with a .391 SLG% isn't going to bring much in return, but I think people are forgetting that his .800+ OPS against righties is still valuable to this team, and we're not getting better this year by trading him for C prospects.

 

The Marlins need to keep their hitters, and add another one. Not trade one.

My biggest problem with trading Hermida now is that he's been the 2nd best starter against RHP. We can't afford to lose that. While he's not where any of us want him because of how ridiculously bad he's been vs LHP this year, we can still make it work with a Hermida/Carroll platoon.

 

 

Note: Some will notice that sometimes I've said Cody has been our 2nd best vs RHP and that sometimes I've said Hermida is. This is because they keep fighting over 2nd place, so it keeps changing. (Hanley is easily in 1st.)

For now, all the franchise should ask for is to dump his 10M due in the next 2 years and hopefully get a couple of medium prospects back, perhaps one MLB ready by September if needed. I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M available over Hermida. I wish him well wherever he goes.

 

Lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?

 

 

Realistically right now we likely wouldn't get much at all for Hermida.

 

Only two out of 30 clubs showed interest and both weren't offering much, probably a couple of medium prospects (c+ to b-)

 

Combined with Uggla very likely not having anywhere near our perceived value (said that he did not have much value at all this offseason because of how bad he was after the ASB, and he has basically the same line this season), and a few other nuisances (like Cantu's power outage, Amezaga being done, likely needing to keep Cody, ect), I'm definitely begining to wonder if we'll be able to restock our farm like we thought we would be able to.

 

 

We're fighting for a playoff spot.

You mentioned how our bats have struggled...we can't afford to just give one away for a couple of C+ prospects.

 

You said "lol "medium prospects?" Are you kidding me?", and nothing about what taking Hermidas bat out of our line up would do right now. That's implying that you're only talking about the return we would get, and unless Hermida has a big second half that's looking to be about what we should look at in return.

 

 

He said we should just trade Hermida for a bunch of a couple of medium prospects.

 

I said are you kidding me b/c there's no way in hell that makes us better this year. It's no secret Hermida's trade value isn't high right now. A corner OF'er with a .391 SLG% isn't going to bring much in return, but I think people are forgetting that his .800+ OPS against righties is still valuable to this team, and we're not getting better this year by trading him for C prospects.

 

The Marlins need to keep their hitters, and add another one. Not trade one.

You're taking one sentence out of context and running with it. I'm not advocating that we should just simply dump Hermida for whatever we can get, which generously is a couple of medium prospects, and that's the end of it. I did say that I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M(Herms pay for the rest of this year and the next 2) over Hermida. End the Hermida ties now. Let him go fulfill his potential elsewhere. For this year, that leaves this money-challenged franchise with a little extra money to hopefully acquire a bat for the rest of this season, and a bat that's attached to a competent defender. Right now we have a platoon player who comes out when defense counts and is a sitting duck batting against LHP, overall a manager's nightmare. For over a year, the management has shown that they're not comfortable with Hermida's defense. They'd rather not have him IF we make a post-season bid. And he's a goner after this year anyway. If we don't get a couple of prospects now, we'll just lose him for nothing at season's end. The franchise isn't going to offer him a contract next year.

You're taking one sentence out of context and running with it. I'm not advocating that we should just simply dump Hermida for whatever we can get, which generously is a couple of medium prospects, and that's the end of it. I did say that I'd rather have Beinfest with 10M(Herms pay for the rest of this year and the next 2) over Hermida. End the Hermida ties now. Let him go fulfill his potential elsewhere. For this year, that leaves this money-challenged franchise with a little extra money to hopefully acquire a bat for the rest of this season, and a bat that's attached to a competent defender. Right now we have a platoon player who comes out when defense counts and is a sitting duck batting against LHP, overall a manager's nightmare. For over a year, the management has shown that they're not comfortable with Hermida's defense. They'd rather not have him IF we make a post-season bid. And he's a goner after this year anyway. If we don't get a couple of prospects now, we'll just lose him for nothing at season's end. The franchise isn't going to offer him a contract next year.

 

Ok, but dumping Hermida and his money isn't the difference in Beinfest getting a bat or not.

And I still don't see the big deal...why would a great platoon be a "manager's nightmare?"

I didn't say great platoon. What's so great about it?

There's no way that this franchise would potentially go out and buy a bat(who can also defend) for a playoff run this year for say 1-2M, unless there's a place for this player. That's where Hermida comes in, or should I say, goes away.

I didn't say great platoon. What's so great about it?

There's no way that this franchise would potentially go out and buy a bat(who can also defend) for a playoff run this year for say 1-2M, unless there's a place for this player. That's where Hermida comes in, or should I say, goes away.

 

What's bad about the platoon? As long as Carroll can hold his end of the bargain (.700 OPS + big defense) vs Hermida's (.800 OPS + average defense), that's a good platoon.

 

And, before OOTP comes in, I don't like UZR and think it's a bad measurement of outfield defense. I'll stick with +/-, which has him at 0 in RF this year.

after tonight the Pirates better be asking for a bucket of baseballs

Maybe the Pirates (and Marlins) will rethink this offer after Capps gave up 5 runs to the Phillies in the bottom of the ninth.

 

BJ Ryan please.