5 mil for Hensley and Nunez isn't too shabby

I've never been on the Leo bandwagon... he'd better kick ass making that money

I don't see why you think he can improve on his slider/cutter; a pitch that sucked last year, and he had no confidence in.

 

Perhaps by improving through practicing it will make him gain confidence in it.

Come on Erick, ya didn't think that one through, did ya?

I don't see why you think he can improve on his slider/cutter; a pitch that sucked last year, and he had no confidence in.

 

Perhaps by improving through practicing it will make him gain confidence in it.

Come on Erick, ya didn't think that one through, did ya?

 

 

That's easier said than done.

Plus, I don't really think he needs to develop that pitch more, or anything.

 

A fastball in the mid-90's with a very good secondary pitch is usually enough to be a very good one inning reliever. He just needs to use his fastball some more, and locate his changeup, consistently. There's no need, in crucial situations, to be messing around with your third best pitch.

Paying that much for Nunez is a bit silly. He's not worth it. The bullpen has improved enough that the Marlins can afford to trade Nunez, save that money, and fill the holes in the "traditional" way (that is hoping to strike gold with dirt cheap guys).

 

I'm not saying this is going to sink the team, but I'm always impressed that the Marlins often refrain from overpaying certain types of players in order to maintain cost efficiency. This probably isn't one of those cases.

I know he's old, but Arthur Rhodes is only getting $4.1MM from Texas. The Marlins should have planned to lose Nunez and made Rhodes an offer.

 

Jon Rauch is a bit inconsistent but carries the closer's brand and he's only getting $3.5MM from Toronto.

 

I'm just saying that there are probably a lot of better ways that the Marlins could have spent that Nunez money when you factor in how much the pen has already improved in the offseason. Again, this isn't something catastrophic, but still not a wise move in my opinion.

The Marlins fans on this board might be the only baseball fans in the universe who are worried that their owner might spend too much.

 

Loria has conditioned you well.

 

Nunez's issues come from the fact that his fastball and change move exactly the same way with only a five mph or so difference.

 

If he gets a pitch that goes the other way, he will be a lights out pitcher.

 

Hensley got back to the majors by developing a new pitch.

 

This Marlins' bullpen looks much better than those of years past heading into spring training. But there are NO sure things on the roster. Those assuming that Dunn, Webb, and and Mujica are going to be special are being more hopeful than those who believe in Nunez.

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

Holy crap watertownkid is making viable arguments. It's a new day, boys and girls!

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

I know he's old, but Arthur Rhodes is only getting $4.1MM from Texas. The Marlins should have planned to lose Nunez and made Rhodes an offer.

 

Jon Rauch is a bit inconsistent but carries the closer's brand and he's only getting $3.5MM from Toronto.

 

I'm just saying that there are probably a lot of better ways that the Marlins could have spent that Nunez money when you factor in how much the pen has already improved in the offseason. Again, this isn't something catastrophic, but still not a wise move in my opinion.

 

 

 

Leo Nunez > Jon Rauch.

 

And we don't really "need" Arthur Rhodes.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of using the money on something other than the bullpen.

 

I'm worried that the Marlins might overreact to their blown saves last year, and decide to carry an extra reliever, resulting in a short bench.

Hensley got back to the majors by developing a new pitch.

 

 

 

 

 

Hensley doesn't have overpowering stuff; he needs all those pitches.

I think Leo would be fine with a fastball/changeup. He was just fine using those two pitches last year. A lot of the times he messed up was because he decided to flirt with the usage of the slider.

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

 

 

This is wrong, actually.

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

 

 

This is wrong, actually.

 

nice argument

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

 

 

This is wrong, actually.

 

nice argument

While it's much much shorter, his argument doesn't have any less substantial backing than yours does.

Paying that much for Nunez is a bit silly. He's not worth it. The bullpen has improved enough that the Marlins can afford to trade Nunez, save that money, and fill the holes in the "traditional" way (that is hoping to strike gold with dirt cheap guys).

 

I'm not saying this is going to sink the team, but I'm always impressed that the Marlins often refrain from overpaying certain types of players in order to maintain cost efficiency. This probably isn't one of those cases.

 

 

Do not speak of this!

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

Now you are being ridiculous.

 

There is a legitimate reason to be concerned with Coghlan's defense in CF, considering that it's not his natural position and he already embarrassed himself in LF. There is also legitimate concern that he might not hit well enough to make up for the defensive shortcomings, based upon his horrendous hitting in 2010. This doesn't mean that he needs to be traded. It's acknowledging the fact that he's a young player who had a terrible sophomore slump and plays horrible defense outside of his natural position.

 

And then there is the legitimate concern that Dominguez's bat isn't even close to being major league ready and might need more time in the minors to develop.

 

Since you seem to concerned with question marks and things collapsing, Coghlan in CF and Dominguez are probably the two most sensitive areas of this team going into spring training. What makes this even more alarming is that Bonifacio, Wise, Helms, Cousins, and Petersen are really the only viable contingency options there. It would have been nice to spend that $3.5MM on someone else.

 

And to say that the incoming bullpen lacks experience is completely ridiculous. Between Choate, Mujica, Sanches, and Badenhop, there is plenty of major league experience and success over the past two seasons to go with it. I don't think you will get many nasty surprises from them. Even Webb has a respectable 80 innings over two seasons. This is a solid pen for a small market team. Even if two of those underperform there is certainly no "collapse." Then pen will be fine.

It has nothing to do with Loria "conditioning."

 

Since baseball consists of both small and large market teams, it is important that small market teams (like the Marlins) spend their money wisely in order to be competitive. The Marlins have managed to field pretty competitive teams over the last couple of years along this principle alone. Otherwise they risk becoming the Pirates or Royals.

 

It's great that Loria has that money to spend on Nunez, but now that we know that those funds are available, I would much rather that the Marlins have spent that money on a CF/3B or left-handed bat. Nunez became expendable after the bullpen additions and the Marlins could probably match his production at league minimum through a combination of options already in-house.

 

Small market teams must spend wisely in order to compete against the large market teams. Remember this.

 

 

 

If you are so worried about CF/3B, then we should trade Coghlan for a CFer.

 

Any rational assessment of a Marlins bullpen without Nunez would find it lacking experience and proven ML results.

 

Trade Nunez, Hensley fails and the whole thing collapses.

 

 

This is wrong, actually.

 

nice argument

 

 

You had a good one too.

 

But seriously...

 

Randy Choate: One of the best LOOGY's in baseball the past two years.

Mike Dunn: Dominant against lefties last year.

Ryan Webb: 2.90 ERA / 62.3 GB% in 59 innings last year. 3.86 ERA / 57.1 GB% in 25.2 innings the year before.

Edward Mujica: Put up very solid #'s the past two years. Led all relievers in baseball last year with his 12.00 K/BB ratio; Top 10 WHIP among all relievers (0.93).

Brian Sanches: ERA under 2.6 each of the past two years.

Burke Badenhop: Career 3.62 ERA / 1.24 WHIP as a reliever.

 

This doesn't include the fact that our strength in the farm system currently comes from our relievers. 3 of our current top 10 prospects are relievers, according to John Sickels; this doesn't include lower-tier guys like Steve Cishek who looked alright in limited time in September last year. It also doesn't include guys who could be converted into relievers, if all else fails (like Alex Sanabia).

 

To suggest that the bullpen is screwed if Leo is traded / Hensley fails is wrong.

 

For what it's worth, Leo Nunez has had one impressive year in the big leagues. That year was last year, and it wasn't really that impressive. He's not much better, if any better at all, than some of the guys I just posted about. The only significant difference right now between Leo and some of these relievers I mentioned is that Leo is making a lot more money because he picked up saves (and also blew plenty, of course).

And by the way, trading Coghlan would make no sense. He's one of only two left-handed bats in the lineup. A lineup that actually has question marks right now (unlike the bullpen).

Holy crap watertownkid is making viable arguments. It's a new day, boys and girls!

 

I'm still trying to figure out if this was sarcasm.

 

I didn't think it was and I'm usually good at telling.

Holy crap watertownkid is making viable arguments. It's a new day, boys and girls!

 

I'm still trying to figure out if this was sarcasm.

 

I didn't think it was and I'm usually good at telling.

Maybe "viable" wasn't the right word, but below was the most coherent thing he's ever put together, even if I didn't agree with his conclusions:

 

The Marlins fans on this board might be the only baseball fans in the universe who are worried that their owner might spend too much.

Loria has conditioned you well.

Nunez's issues come from the fact that his fastball and change move exactly the same way with only a five mph or so difference.

If he gets a pitch that goes the other way, he will be a lights out pitcher.

Hensley got back to the majors by developing a new pitch.

This Marlins' bullpen looks much better than those of years past heading into spring training. But there are NO sure things on the roster. Those assuming that Dunn, Webb, and and Mujica are going to be special are being more hopeful than those who believe in Nunez.

 

 

He actually attempted to justify things with "facts." And the last 3 sentences actually make some sense.

 

Still, it went downhill right after that.

Holy crap watertownkid is making viable arguments. It's a new day, boys and girls!

 

I'm still trying to figure out if this was sarcasm.

 

I didn't think it was and I'm usually good at telling.

 

Well I mean... whether he's wrong or right is debatable.

 

It was the coherence that was the shocker. With an argument that's actually backable.

I don't see why you think he can improve on his slider/cutter; a pitch that sucked last year, and he had no confidence in.

 

Perhaps by improving through practicing it will make him gain confidence in it.

Come on Erick, ya didn't think that one through, did ya?

 

 

That's easier said than done.

Plus, I don't really think he needs to develop that pitch more, or anything.

 

A fastball in the mid-90's with a very good secondary pitch is usually enough to be a very good one inning reliever. He just needs to use his fastball some more, and locate his changeup, consistently. There's no need, in crucial situations, to be messing around with your third best pitch.

He's got 2.5 months to work on it. He can slowly start developing it now, and once they have pitchers start throwing, he'll work things out then, and when they have the pitchers face hitters from the team, he can have batters to pitch to and work on it. Then he can continue to work on it during the Spring in real-time situations and see how well it works. Never know, he could make it VERY effective.

I don't understand why people like Leo Nunez get such passionate defenders. I remember it was even worse when Lindstrom left. People here were vocally upset and acting like the Marlins were missing out on some great arm.

I don't understand why people like Leo Nunez get such passionate defenders.

 

Ain't it the truth.

 

I'm hoping that nailing him down to an exact price was part of their strategy to make it easier to deal him in the next month or so, and that they've been engaged in quiet talks to do so. The BP would be just fine (and conceivably better) without him. I take heart from the fact that this is the most they've ever agreed to pay any reliever for a single year, and therefore the likelihood that they would like to be rid of the obligation is also at its highest.

 

While there may be many guys worth 3.5-4 mill in the BP, I don't see Numb Nuts as one of them, especially not on a budget-constrained team where it could be spent to better effect elsewhere.

 

Then again, it's only a year if they keep him, so he can't do any appreciable financial damage. Who knows? He might rack up 50 saves and be a hero. Not a bet I'd take, but the FO might think otherwise.