he's club controlled for years?

 

Yup. As in for at least 4, perhaps (or even probably) 5 more years of club control. He's only played in 98 games in 3 seasons before this year. The answer is that you're right, they absolutely won't do that.

Well then just keep him around. I assumed he was a free agent after this season. Guess I was taking age more than playing time into consideration.

Ruggiano is inexpensive, controlled, and probably at least as solid as Cody Ross. He was just buried in the Tampa Bay system that produced Hamilton, Crawford, Upton, Joyce, Jennings, Zobrist, Gross, Fuld, and Young.

It's funny, a month or so ago, I think it was in a thread where I commented to the effect that why wouldn't Carlos want to hang around here when he could hit in the mix of Stanton and Ruggiano, two guys capable of putting up a 900 to 1000 OPS, and I was laughed at.

 

So, here we are, and Ruggiano now has 257 PAs and still has a 384/580/964 line.

 

The guy can hit. And he just keeps on hitting. His OPS is still 20 points higher than Stanton's at this point. When is the "fluke" going to end?

 

It may not. I think Ruggiano plays LF next year and becomes part of the core of those who can actually hit, joining Reyes and Stanton.

 

With a little luck, Brantly also joins them. Lee or LoMo? Who knows. But, 5 guys who can actually hit consistently makes for a pretty good line-up.

 

Add a 3B who can hit and it becomes intimidating. Boni's been known to hit a little bit, too. Stick Gorkys in CF, he'll hit at least one HR per year.

I'll laugh at you again for suggesting that Ruggiano is a 1.000 OPS player.

1000?

 

I didn't say 1000, I said 900 to 1000.

 

And so he is. 964. Will he collapse? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

If he does, no problem, laugh away, I'll have been wrong.

 

Speaking of collapses, how about Uggla, now hitting 208 and on the bench for 12 million/year? Perhaps we should bring that up to those who think Beinfest should be fired.

I see him though a a guy who could be 270/340/500 next year easily. I don't think he'll hit 330 but could hit close to 300 again. He has cooled down of late.

Ruggiano is inexpensive, controlled, and probably at least as solid as Cody Ross. He was just buried in the Tampa Bay system that produced Hamilton, Crawford, Upton, Joyce, Jennings, Zobrist, Gross, Fuld, and Young.

 

The Rays system didn't produce most of those guys,or Ruggiano either. The reason he wasn't in the Majors is he wasn't good enough, maybe he's gotten better, but he certainly doesn't have the power of Cody Ross and shouldn't be anything more than a fourth outfielder if the Marlins are serious about competing in 2013.

Ruggiano is inexpensive, controlled, and probably at least as solid as Cody Ross. He was just buried in the Tampa Bay system that produced Hamilton, Crawford, Upton, Joyce, Jennings, Zobrist, Gross, Fuld, and Young.

 

The Rays system didn't produce most of those guys,or Ruggiano either. The reason he wasn't in the Majors is he wasn't good enough, maybe he's gotten better, but he certainly doesn't have the power of Cody Ross and shouldn't be anything more than a fourth outfielder if the Marlins are serious about competing in 2013.

 

Doesn't have Cody Ross' power? Cody's career high in home runs is 24. You don't think Ruggiano could produce 20-25 home runs over a full season? The Ross comparison is actually a very good one. Cody is has a career .788 OPS and Ruggiano can certainly be that. Is he THIS good? No, but he has shown this year that he can hit and produce if given a chance.

The Rays system didn't produce most of those guys,or Ruggiano either.

 

 

Hamilton: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (1st pick) of the 1999 amateur draft

Crawford: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 2nd round of the 1999 amateur draft.

Upton: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (2nd pick) of the 2002 amateur draft

Tampa traded for Joyce when he was still a prospect

Jennings Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 10th round of the 2006 amateur draft.

Tampa traded for Zobrist when he was still a prospect

Young Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (1st pick) of the 2003 amateur draft

Tampa acquired Ruggianio when he was still a prospect

 

If I said he was buried in the Tampa system behind all of the above, would I still have to read your pedantic hair splitting? Wait, I already did say he was buried in the Tampa system behind all of the above. It is a real shame that mentioning Fuld ruined my point for you forever.

1000?

 

I didn't say 1000, I said 900 to 1000.

 

And so he is. 964. Will he collapse? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

If he does, no problem, laugh away, I'll have been wrong.

 

Speaking of collapses, how about Uggla, now hitting 208 and on the bench for 12 million/year? Perhaps we should bring that up to those who think Beinfest should be fired.

 

He's not going to be a .900 to 1.000 bat, either. Upon what are you basing this conclusion?

 

He's been consistently good this season, but he's still only had 260 PAs or so. That's less than a half season of play. That's small enough sampling size to sustain a .403 BABIP. I'm not really on the "he's just lucky" side of BABIP, but I do believe that it indicates that such performance cannot be continued for a much lengthier period of time and won't be repeated next season.

 

To put it in perspective, Coghlan's awesome second half in 2009 was stretched over 300 PAs. That was with a .406 BABIP.

 

That mostly just tells you that the probability of repeating that type of performance is pretty close to zero.

Upon what do I base this conclusion?

 

Pure speculation. No statistical basis. I think he's one of those guys who can hit and has the drive to make the most of his chance. This is his first serious chance, but it also may be his last. He's old. It's do or die, and I think he'll find a way to do it. If he doesn't, he's nothing but a bench guy with good speed who can play the outfield. Still a nice living, but that's not objective of any ballplayer.

 

If I'm Loria, I want about 5 guys like Ruggiano on my roster at .5 million/year.

Upon what do I base this conclusion?

 

Pure speculation. No statistical basis. I think he's one of those guys who can hit and has the drive to make the most of his chance. This is his first serious chance, but it also may be his last. He's old. It's do or die, and I think he'll find a way to do it. If he doesn't, he's nothing but a bench guy with good speed who can play the outfield. Still a nice living, but that's not objective of any ballplayer.

 

If I'm Loria, I want about 5 guys like Ruggiano on my roster at .5 million/year.

 

That's what I figured.

The Rays system didn't produce most of those guys,or Ruggiano either.

 

 

Hamilton: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (1st pick) of the 1999 amateur draft

Crawford: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 2nd round of the 1999 amateur draft.

Upton: Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (2nd pick) of the 2002 amateur draft

Tampa traded for Joyce when he was still a prospect

Jennings Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 10th round of the 2006 amateur draft.

Tampa traded for Zobrist when he was still a prospect

Young Drafted by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in the 1st round (1st pick) of the 2003 amateur draft

Tampa acquired Ruggianio when he was still a prospect

 

If I said he was buried in the Tampa system behind all of the above, would I still have to read your pedantic hair splitting? Wait, I already did say he was buried in the Tampa system behind all of the above. It is a real shame that mentioning Fuld ruined my point for you forever.

Not to be to nitpicky but, he still wasn't good enough to be playing the majors, You can through out names like Dukes, Kapler, Baldelli and Gomes, you can throw out other names too it doesn't change the fact he wasn't very good when given opportunities with the Rays and he if had any apparant value the Rays would have kept him.

Jason Werth, Shane Victorino, Jose Bautista, Joakim Soria, R.A. Dickey, Dan Uggla, Josh Hamilton and Johan Santana were Rule V draft picks. If they had any apparent value those organizations would have kept them.

 

Players can be blocked all the time, and in those situations a player (like Ruggiano) is going to get a very limited number of plate appearances to stick. Whereas a guy that is in a position of organizational need will be permitted to struggle for months in an attempt to get it right.

 

There is every indication that Ruggiano should be at least as solid as Cody Ross as a regular player. There is a significant chance that he could be better for 2-3 seasons than Ross ever was.

1000?

 

I didn't say 1000, I said 900 to 1000.

 

And so he is. 964. Will he collapse? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

If he does, no problem, laugh away, I'll have been wrong.

 

Speaking of collapses, how about Uggla, now hitting 208 and on the bench for 12 million/year? Perhaps we should bring that up to those who think Beinfest should be fired.

 

 

Well he did offer him $48 million didn't he ?

I have nothing to really base this upon, but I think both Uggla and Hanley would have performed better if they were kept together.

1000?

 

I didn't say 1000, I said 900 to 1000.

 

And so he is. 964. Will he collapse? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

If he does, no problem, laugh away, I'll have been wrong.

 

Speaking of collapses, how about Uggla, now hitting 208 and on the bench for 12 million/year? Perhaps we should bring that up to those who think Beinfest should be fired.

 

 

Well he did offer him $48 million didn't he ?

 

Something like that. He also wanted another year or two. AND...He was another one that really didn't want to play here.

We offered him 4 years. Atlanta got him with 5 years/62 million. You have to credit Beinfest, et al for the wisdom not to overestimate his possible longevity just to keep him around.

 

Less than 2 years into his total suckage, ATL is now paying him 13 him mill for this year. They face 3 more years of 13 mill/year for someone who has become a bench guy hitting 209/338/381/719 with 18 HR and 150 SO. At least he's figured out how to take a walk.

 

I'll take Solano at 2B for 400K/year every day and twice on Sunday for about the same total production at the plate. Not to mention that either Bonifacio or Solano are far better in the field than Uggla could ever dream of being.

 

Uggla's 30 HR years will end as of last year, he ain't gonna hit 30 this year. He's done, and will probably wind up as an ineffective DH in the AL.

 

See ball, hit ball!

 

Like, you know, Hanley and I, are, like, you know, brothers, you know? We make each other, you know, like, better, you know?

 

:lol

 

Remember our 2008 record-setting 29+ HR-each infield? Cantu (29,) Ramirez (33,) Uggla (32,) and Jacobs (32)?

 

All gone. Good riddance.

I'll take Solano at 2B for 400K/year every day and twice on Sunday for about the same total production at the plate. Not to mention that either Bonifacio or Solano are far better in the field than Uggla could ever dream of being.

 

 

Solano's best minor league OPS is .696. Dan Uggla's worst major league OPS is .719.

 

Oh, and BR and Fangraphs both have Uggla as a positive fielder this year and Solano as a negative. Uggla is not a great fielder by any stretch, but just because Solano is small and Latin doesn't mean that an assumption that he'll be a good fielder is justified.

i think Jose Reyes will be gone and Zambrano, Carlos too reyes to save money and zambrano because how he playing

just because Solano is small and Latin doesn't mean that an assumption that he'll be a good fielder is justified.

 

Who said that? And who said anything about "Latin"?

 

I said I'd take Solano's roughly-equal-to-Uggla's total production at the plate for 400K/year versus Uggla at 13 million/year.

 

Who would I rather have at 2B given a choice of Uggla or Solano? Solano, no matter what any stat says.

 

Solano is 25 and Uggla is 32 and on the back side of his hill.

Okay, I know its a lot of fun to ignore minor league stats, but I'm going to just try to show them to everyone. Ruggs 8 seasons in the Minors with an ops over .800 often on the closer to .900, and in Triple A one season under .800(.741). I expect if nothing else Ruggs to stay in the .800 ops range witch with his fielding ability well deserves a starting position.

We offered him 4 years. Atlanta got him with 5 years/62 million. You have to credit Beinfest, et al for the wisdom not to overestimate his possible longevity just to keep him around.

 

Less than 2 years into his total suckage, ATL is now paying him 13 him mill for this year. They face 3 more years of 13 mill/year for someone who has become a bench guy hitting 209/338/381/719 with 18 HR and 150 SO. At least he's figured out how to take a walk.

 

I'll take Solano at 2B for 400K/year every day and twice on Sunday for about the same total production at the plate. Not to mention that either Bonifacio or Solano are far better in the field than Uggla could ever dream of being.

 

Uggla's 30 HR years will end as of last year, he ain't gonna hit 30 this year. He's done, and will probably wind up as an ineffective DH in the AL.

 

See ball, hit ball!

 

Like, you know, Hanley and I, are, like, you know, brothers, you know? We make each other, you know, like, better, you know?

 

:lol

 

Remember our 2008 record-setting 29+ HR-each infield? Cantu (29,) Ramirez (33,) Uggla (32,) and Jacobs (32)?

 

All gone. Good riddance.

 

 

I get what you're doing and it's not factually incorrect, but it's also still kinda silly in a way. You have a tendency to ignore peripherals/true talent levels.

Love the 'record-setting 29+ HR-each infield' statistic.

 

I mean I have nothing to do with this conversation (nor do I care), but as an aside I'd like to point out that statistics are meant to be compared against each other. There's a reason why the Mendoza Line is a perfect .200. Pick a number... the infield didn't make it to 30+. An infield with 29+ HRs is an ultra-specific waste of time.