They get on base in single-a which is not unheard of. Not to mention that for Keys to start would probably mean both Ozuna and Marisnick would have to be complete busts, which would be a disaster.

Small sample size, but they're getting on base in AA, too.

 

Another thing is that Morrison could be traded, moving Yelich or Stanton to first, which means only one of Ozuna or Marisnick would have to be a bust. Keys also seems like a pretty good defender, and if we happen to acquire a catcher from elsewhere, Barnes adds to our depth at second base, where he wasn't bad defensively in Greensboro.

 

Erick, just out of curiosity, is this part of your, "they're too old for their level" argument? I'm just asking because you say they both have "limited upside," which is fine. Personally, I like what they do now, they'd be good as 1 and 2. I'm not entirely sure we're getting overly excited about them, either, at least I'm not. I see them as players to follow.

 

One thing I've liked to see is that the walk rates aren't flukes. Only fluke thus far from them was that Barnes hit 12 homers last year in Greensboro, which it appears the South Atlantic League allows a lot of homers, as it is. Keys even hit 5 there! But, I digress.

 

Erick, I've not looked at just walk rates, if that' what you're thinking.

In other news, Moran finished his season with .301 BA and an .801 OPS

In other news, Moran finished his season with .301 BA and an .801 OPS

 

 

WOOOOOOOOOOO!

Small sample size, but they're getting on base in AA, too.

 

Another thing is that Morrison could be traded, moving Yelich or Stanton to first, which means only one of Ozuna or Marisnick would have to be a bust. Keys also seems like a pretty good defender, and if we happen to acquire a catcher from elsewhere, Barnes adds to our depth at second base, where he wasn't bad defensively in Greensboro.

 

Erick, just out of curiosity, is this part of your, "they're too old for their level" argument? I'm just asking because you say they both have "limited upside," which is fine. Personally, I like what they do now, they'd be good as 1 and 2. I'm not entirely sure we're getting overly excited about them, either, at least I'm not. I see them as players to follow.

 

One thing I've liked to see is that the walk rates aren't flukes. Only fluke thus far from them was that Barnes hit 12 homers last year in Greensboro, which it appears the South Atlantic League allows a lot of homers, as it is. Keys even hit 5 there! But, I digress.

 

Erick, I've not looked at just walk rates, if that' what you're thinking.

 

 

It's not about them being too old for their level which is actually a relevant thing when talking about prospects.

 

Either way, it's that they have no power. Barnes just .OPS'd at a .710 clip in high-A ball this year.

 

If you're not just looking at walk rates, what is it about these two that make them worth following? I feel like the best-case scenario here is that Barnes becomes another A.J. Ellis. That wouldn't really be a bad thing, but whatever.

They're also probably not going to hit at the top of the order as is being suggested.

 

If Keys ever starts for this team, the current rebuild was another failure.

In other news, Moran finished his season with .301 BA and an .801 OPS

 

 

Which is saying a lot, because it took him a while to catch on. He must have really gotten hot at the end of the year.

He did. He was OPSing over 1 towards the end, I believe

Barnes and Keys are fringe prospects who aren't likely to amount to starters in the big leagues.

 

There seems to be an epidemic around here lately of overrating mediocre talent.

People dig the OBP.

 

It really upsets me because both guys would be so much more useful if they had even a little power.

People dig the OBP.

 

It really upsets me because both guys would be so much more useful if they had even a little power.

 

 

Well, I think we're excited considering what's already on the field right now...

Not saying these guys would be anywhere near what I'm going to compare them to, but 2003-2005, Pierre and Castillo. Neither had power, worked out somewhat decently.

 

... Just ... just sayin'.

Not saying these guys would be anywhere near what I'm going to compare them to, but 2003-2005, Pierre and Castillo. Neither had power, worked out somewhat decently.

 

... Just ... just sayin'.

 

 

Pierre and Castillo also had elite speed, which gave them much of their value.

 

You are also jumping the gun right now if you are already penciling these guys into a future MLB batting order when they are still only in the low minor leagues. They have really limited upside and thus aren't much to get excited about.

I'm just throwing out possibilities, not penciling them in at all.

Keys has a high obp, doesn't strike out, and plays a superior defense. I would also venture to say that he takes a lot of pitches. His value is high due to the fact that he does those things. based on single A numbers, which can be projected but do have a high amount of variance. he should be a solid hitter in the major leagues. in fact probably a superior hitter to Marisnick. If he can continue to put up an OBP. around .400 he should be a major league starter, and possibly one of our better outfielders.

Keys has a high obp, doesn't strike out, and plays a superior defense. I would also venture to say that he takes a lot of pitches. His value is high due to the fact that he does those things. based on single A numbers, which can be projected but do have a high amount of variance. he should be a solid hitter in the major leagues. in fact probably a superior hitter to Marisnick. If he can continue to put up an OBP. around .400 he should be a major league starter, and possibly one of our better outfielders.

 

 

No offense but that's laughable.

Keys has a high obp, doesn't strike out, and plays a superior defense. I would also venture to say that he takes a lot of pitches. His value is high due to the fact that he does those things. based on single A numbers, which can be projected but do have a high amount of variance. he should be a solid hitter in the major leagues. in fact probably a superior hitter to Marisnick. If he can continue to put up an OBP. around .400 he should be a major league starter, and possibly one of our better outfielders.

 

 

No offense but that's laughable.

 

 

Well, Marisnick certainly has a much higher ceiling. But Keys seems to be a much more consistent hitter, and could turn out to be the more productive player if Marisnick develops into the next Cameron Maybin.

 

But Keys being the better defensive player is laughable and I haven't even seen Keys play. Marisnick is a stud in CF...

Keys has a high obp, doesn't strike out, and plays a superior defense. I would also venture to say that he takes a lot of pitches. His value is high due to the fact that he does those things. based on single A numbers, which can be projected but do have a high amount of variance. he should be a solid hitter in the major leagues. in fact probably a superior hitter to Marisnick. If he can continue to put up an OBP. around .400 he should be a major league starter, and possibly one of our better outfielders.

 

 

No offense but that's laughable.

 

 

Well, Marisnick certainly has a much higher ceiling. But Keys seems to be a much more consistent hitter, and could turn out to be the more productive player if Marisnick develops into the next Cameron Maybin.

 

But Keys being the better defensive player is laughable and I haven't even seen Keys play. Marisnick is a stud in CF...

 

 

 

 

You are right, I take back the defense comment, Marisnick is a great defender. But that is not to say Keys, based on scouting reports, is by any means a bad defender. In fact every scouting report I have read makes a point to mention his range, and his skill at defense.

Brent Keys has 32 PA's in AA and they've not been all that impressive.

 

He had a nice season in A ball, but it's one that's probably unsustainable. Prospects are deemed prospects based on tools. This guy has no power. The K/BB rate is awesome, but that's probably not going to continue as he begins to see better pitching. Once his average lowers, he becomes no longer worth following.

 

For Keys to be a valuable player in the big leagues, he has to be really good defensively. I've never watched him play so maybe he is. I don't know. Is he? Another thing going against him is the fact that he's been inefficient on the bases this year. 13 SB/9 CS in A ball. That is bad. For a guy with such limited upside offensively, he has to do just about everything else well to be valuable.

 

Between Stanton, Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna, etc., I doubt Keys ever becomes a starter for us.

Brent Keys has 32 PA's in AA and they've not been all that impressive.

 

He had a nice season in A ball, but it's one that's probably unsustainable. Prospects are deemed prospects based on tools. This guy has no power. The K/BB rate is awesome, but that's probably not going to continue as he begins to see better pitching. Once his average lowers, he becomes no longer worth following.

 

For Keys to be a valuable player in the big leagues, he has to be really good defensively. I've never watched him play so maybe he is. I don't know. Is he? Another thing going against him is the fact that he's been inefficient on the bases this year. 13 SB/9 CS in A ball. That is bad. For a guy with such limited upside offensively, he has to do just about everything else well to be valuable.

 

Between Stanton, Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna, etc., I doubt Keys ever becomes a starter for us.

 

.

 

I can't disagree with any of this. My only complaint is the assumption that a player who just had a great year in a pitchers league can't sustain his production. It wasn't a hot week, a great month... It was a very solid year. Let him prove he can't do it again... But until then he is exciting,

Brent Keys has 32 PA's in AA and they've not been all that impressive.

 

He had a nice season in A ball, but it's one that's probably unsustainable. Prospects are deemed prospects based on tools. This guy has no power. The K/BB rate is awesome, but that's probably not going to continue as he begins to see better pitching. Once his average lowers, he becomes no longer worth following.

 

For Keys to be a valuable player in the big leagues, he has to be really good defensively. I've never watched him play so maybe he is. I don't know. Is he? Another thing going against him is the fact that he's been inefficient on the bases this year. 13 SB/9 CS in A ball. That is bad. For a guy with such limited upside offensively, he has to do just about everything else well to be valuable.

 

Between Stanton, Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna, etc., I doubt Keys ever becomes a starter for us.

 

.

 

I can't disagree with any of this. My only complaint is the assumption that a player who just had a great year in a pitchers league can't sustain his production. It wasn't a hot week, a great month... It was a very solid year. Let him prove he can't do it again... But until then he is exciting,

 

 

He has led his respective league 2 years in a row. something no one else in the organization can say.

Huh?

I'm just throwing out possibilities, not penciling them in at all.

 

 

Whatever, but I still think that mentioning them within the same lineup as Yelich and Moran is rather silly at this point.

I was looking over our farm and have come to the conclusion we have very few players with any offensive ability at all. Yelich, Moran, Keys, Dietrich, and Ozuna, and that is basically it. Looking at proven wOBA/wRC+.

This guy has no power. The K/BB rate is awesome, but that's probably not going to continue as he begins to see better pitching. Once his average lowers, he becomes no longer worth following.

 

 

Exactly. People in this thread aren't contextualizing the numbers. It's almost like they think that his OBP in Jupiter will somehow translate to a similar figure in the big leagues.

This guy has no power. The K/BB rate is awesome, but that's probably not going to continue as he begins to see better pitching. Once his average lowers, he becomes no longer worth following.

 

 

Exactly. People in this thread aren't contextualizing the numbers. It's almost like they think that his OBP in Jupiter will somehow translate to a similar figure in the big leagues.

 

 

That is exactly what you should be doing. Minor league numbers do have a relation with big league numbers. You CAN look at minor league numbers and decide how good of a pro they will be without seeing them in person. The closer the minors are the more accurate your predictions will be, but nonetheless you can make predictions for the most part that are within a reasonable range to the real numbers.