Not surprising. It's purely money based on the team based.

 

I'm fine with pissing off the players with this, since they'll get over it if we for whatever reason start winning next year. It's more important that we gain an extra year of Ozuna before he potentially cashes in if he breaks out at some point in the future. It'll at least make up a tiny little bit for messing up the Jose situation so poorly (but not really. That was still the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made outside of Kolek over Rodon).

 

There is no extra year involved is what I understand. Ozuna will hit free agency the same year regardless of when they bring him back up. What's at stake is whether he gets an extra arbitration yr as a super 2, rather than the standard 3 yrs. Small potatoes to everyone but this team,

 

 

Bullpen is far from fine. Morris and Dunn have been better but we need lock down like KC.

 

How many blown saves do we have this year?

 

The bullpen is fine. They are currently 11th in era, 15th in whip, and 4th in K/9, despite really bad numbers from Cishek and Hand, who is very very likely not part of the pen next year. I think middle of the pack at worst is "fine."

 

Ramos, Morris, and Phelps (I see him in the bullpen as the longman/6th SP next year) are controlled for 3 seasons

 

Capps is controlled for 4 seasons

 

Rienzo is controlled for 5 seasons

 

Conley, Urena, Wittgren, Reed, and Flores are controlled for 6 seasons.

 

All those guys are probably MLB capable bullpen arms next year. There is a reason they sent out Dyson. They could give up a young controlled reliever as there is real organizational depth. 

 

Also, they have a slew of power arm fringe prospects - Mader, Brice, Suggs, Pineyro, Ellington, etc. - and are probably going to get another reliever or two out of that as soon as next year. We're probably also going to see Koehler and Dunn traded out for more young relievers (probably lefties to compete with Reed and Mader) and salary relief. They are going to bring some real value in trades. Koehler is probably worth more than Dyson, and Dyson got a solid return.

 

Ramos, Capps, Phelps, Morris, Urena, Conley, and Reed is the makings of a really good young bullpen. Middle of the pack at worst, I can see them taking a big jump quickly as Urena and Conley's stuff probably play up bigger in the pen.

 

This is not a problem area. They are fine.

 

They need a platoon partner for Bour and starting pitching.

 

 

There is no extra year involved is what I understand. Ozuna will hit free agency the same year regardless of when they bring him back up. What's at stake is whether he gets an extra arbitration yr as a super 2, rather than the standard 3 yrs. Small potatoes to everyone but this team,

 

Yeah I realize after I posted I'd worded the situation wrong. It's still some cash that in the front office's POV will go towards paying for that front end starter in the offseason.

 

 

Bour has an .810 OPS versus RHP. Get the man a platoon partner for lefties. I have -0- problem with the position players next year, they just need two dudes - lefty basher to help Bour and a real 4th OF. Realmuto, Hech, and Prado are all 2 WAR options, Gordon a 3, and the OF could be monstrous for obvious reasons. I'm fine with the 1B options assuming someone to help. Dietrich, Rojas, and Telis all fine for the bench. They should be able to get those two guys for under $5 million in free agency. Not a big deal. Now if Casey mcgehee is that guy, then that's something we can all scream at.

 

Bullpen is fine, they have everyone in house.

 

spend all the money on someone like Scott Kazmir, as they aren't going to sign price Cueto or Greinke, and then look for a Latos type guy on a 1 year deal looking to reestablish value in a good home ballpark in the NL

 

Lou this team needs more help in scoring runs and I don't think that problem gets solved by just getting a righty platoon guy at first and a better 4th outfielder  Remember when Stanton went out this team was 30-45 and had everyone in the lineup. Are you confident next year that Yelich and Ozuna will be superior run producers, I'm not. They could be but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. This team needs a Cespedes, Gomez type who you know is going to hit. As far as pitching is concerned, Kazmir and a Latos 1 yr rental type would work for me.

 

 

Lou this team needs more help in scoring runs and I don't think that problem gets solved by just getting a righty platoon guy at first and a better 4th outfielder  Remember when Stanton went out this team was 30-45 and had everyone in the lineup. Are you confident next year that Yelich and Ozuna will be superior run producers, I'm not. They could be but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. This team needs a Cespedes, Gomez type who you know is going to hit. As far as pitching is concerned, Kazmir and a Latos 1 yr rental type would work for me.

 

Yoenis Cespedes has a lifetime .790 OPS. I just can't comprehend where everyone gets the idea that the guy is some elite hitter. I mean, I'd take him, but he is going to command far too much money for what he is actually worth.

 

As far as Gomez, he is having a pretty awful season and has battled some injury issues. He will be 30 by next season. I see his decline continuing, so I don't think signing him to a huge deal would be a great idea.

 

Yelich has been fantastic the past couple of months, and Ozuna (who was basically a younger version of Cespedes last year) should have a better year next season.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to add another bat, but I think shoring up the starting rotation and avoiding injuries, the latter of which has been incredibly difficult for this team to do for the better part of the last decade for some reason, are more important.

 

 

Lou this team needs more help in scoring runs and I don't think that problem gets solved by just getting a righty platoon guy at first and a better 4th outfielder  Remember when Stanton went out this team was 30-45 and had everyone in the lineup. Are you confident next year that Yelich and Ozuna will be superior run producers, I'm not. They could be but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. This team needs a Cespedes, Gomez type who you know is going to hit. As far as pitching is concerned, Kazmir and a Latos 1 yr rental type would work for me.

 

Stanton, Yelich, Gordon, and Prado all have missed significant time with injury, and Ozuna is having a major down year and is in AAA. I think it's very reasonable to think they won't be as injured (or demoted) next year and we're going to see the 2014 outfield remerge fast, and Gordon/Prado will do their thing. That's an upgrade at 5 positions. It's also important to point out, Hech and Realmuto are having breakout years and solidifying themselves as solid starting players.

 

Also, Morse, Ichiro, D. Solano, and Mathis have -3.2 WAR. I mean, come on. Throw in J. Solano, Baker, and Salty, and it's over a -4 WAR. That is outrageous and very unlikely "the bench" does that again. For comparison, Dietrich and Rojas have a 1.1 WAR, Telis has to be better by default than Mathis/J. Solano/Salty, and anyone is going to improve on Ichiro and Morse/Baker.

 

I think they project to be a very good team with Kazmir/Samardzija, a 1B lefty basher (danny valencia, etc.), and a real 4th OF (someone like Will Venable). That's assuming Alvarez is healthy. 

 

I think they can do that of under $80 million, which you'd hope is good for Loria considering that is "no new money" for 2016 from what they just saved. If Alvarez is still hurt, bring someone else in on a flyer deal.

 

I mean, Cespedes or Greinke instead would be great, but it would be silly to project them with a $100+ million payroll. 

 

 

Whatever happened to those midseason extension talks with Ichiro? Just didn't pan out or has either side cooled to the idea or what? How likely is it that he's back next year?

 

 

Whatever happened to those midseason extension talks with Ichiro? Just didn't pan out or has either side cooled to the idea or what? How likely is it that he's back next year?

 

still likely

 

 

Boras is filing a grieveance over the Ozuna thing? How can he possibly win that considering Ozunas major league numbers this year... Not to mention the fact that teams do this stuff all the time. This clearly isn't an isolated "Marlins are being cheap" situation. I remember thinking the Mets were more in the wrong with the Ruben Tejada case and they didn't lose that grievance so Boras is screwed here.

 

 

I wonder if this Ozuna thing is pissing off the other players or not.

 

I'm guessing that part of this is because he wouldn't sign an extension like the other guys would.

 

 

Boras is filing a grieveance over the Ozuna thing? How can he possibly win that considering Ozunas major league numbers this year... Not to mention the fact that teams do this stuff all the time. This clearly isn't an isolated "Marlins are being cheap" situation. I remember thinking the Mets were more in the wrong with the Ruben Tejada case and they didn't lose that grievance so Boras is screwed here.

 

If I were his agent I would absolutely file a grievance. He should be up here, especially since it's not like he's taking away ABs from someone better.

 

 

If I were his agent I would absolutely file a grievance. He should be up here, especially since it's not like he's taking away ABs from someone better.

 

I would file the grievance too.

 

hes better than Ichiro, Gillespie, etc. and demolishing AAA now. 

 

I think he has a good chance of winning it even despite his poor performance leading up to it. He is clearly one of the best 13 position players in the organization. 

 

 

Agree. Something weird is going on there with Ozuna.

 

Its obvious, its for super 2.

 

 

Its obvious, its for super 2.

 

super 2 + "punishment" for not accepting the contract in the off season. Def a bit of the ole fuck you to boras (i'm totally for this)

 

 

super 2 + "punishment" for not accepting the contract in the off season. Def a bit of the ole fuck you to boras (i'm totally for this)

 

Send Tino in to choke him

 

 

Send Tino in to choke him

 

lol. didn't they totally offer jose a super fair contract that boras told him not to sign as well? fuck that dude. I hope ozuna and jose drop his ass

 

 

I havent read all of this so maybe its been said, but:

 

The Marlins have these pieces to build around:

 

Stanton -RF (though his injury history is something to be wary of )

 

Yelich -LF

 

Hecahverria -SS

 

Gordon -2b

 

Realmuto - C

 

Ozuna they really should try to move if they can get a good controllable starter.  Long term, he doesnt project as a corner outfielder, they wont be able to extend him and as shown this year, he can be lazy. Else, just put him in CF.

 

Fernandez -SP

 

Koehler -backend starter

 

Ramos-bullpen

 

Capps - bullpen

 

I"d try to trade one or both of Ramos and/or Capps.  Ramos wont be a long term closer at some point he will falter and right now you can sell high on him.  Same with Capps (though I do worry more if MLB will do something to outlaw his delivery this winter)

 

Alvarez you cannot count on at this point, his injury history is just way too severe.

 

Bour is a nice bench piece, you can maybe platoon him at 1b.

 

I dont get why they didnt move Prado still. As seen from above, they have 2 starters they can rely on.  And one is really a #5, so if you can get really good value for him, you move him anyway.  Unless they go hardcore in free agency and sign elite pitchers, they arent contending next year. And they dont really have minor league assets to move since they are abject failures in player development by and large.

 

 

I havent read all of this so maybe its been said, but:

 

The Marlins have these pieces to build around:

 

Stanton -RF (though his injury history is something to be wary of )

 

Yelich -LF

 

Hecahverria -SS

 

Gordon -2b

 

Realmuto - C

 

Ozuna they really should try to move if they can get a good controllable starter.  Long term, he doesnt project as a corner outfielder, they wont be able to extend him and as shown this year, he can be lazy. Else, just put him in CF.

 

Fernandez -SP

 

Koehler -backend starter

 

Ramos-bullpen

 

Capps - bullpen

 

I"d try to trade one or both of Ramos and/or Capps.  Ramos wont be a long term closer at some point he will falter and right now you can sell high on him.  Same with Capps (though I do worry more if MLB will do something to outlaw his delivery this winter)

 

Alvarez you cannot count on at this point, his injury history is just way too severe.

 

Bour is a nice bench piece, you can maybe platoon him at 1b.

 

I dont get why they didnt move Prado still. As seen from above, they have 2 starters they can rely on.  And one is really a #5, so if you can get really good value for him, you move him anyway.  Unless they go hardcore in free agency and sign elite pitchers, they arent contending next year. And they dont really have minor league assets to move since they are abject failures in player development by and large.

 

Well, to be fair, the last two Stanton injuries have been freak things.

 

 

Holding a guy down for Super 2 is done fairly often, it's not against mlb rules, it's not uncommon. It sucks he's still down there but he won't win the grievance. 

 

Isn't the cutoff date coming in the next week or so anyways? If the Marlins bring him up then, then there's definitely no issue here.

 

As for the contract thing, Jose and Hech also turned down extensions so there's no way to prove this was solely a punishment over that as opposed to over his obvious lack of production up here.

 

 

Ozuna hasn't played well enough to deserve super 2.

 

 

Ozuna hasn't played well enough to deserve super 2.

 

seriously. career 718 ops w 30 hr in 1137 abs. He should have taken the contract the fish offered. 

 

 

If he didn't want this to happen he should have come to spring training in shape and actually perform.  The guy had a .630 ops this year in a large sample, he did it to himself.  I would have sent him down earlier in the year

 

 

If he didn't want this to happen he should have come to spring training in shape and actually perform.  The guy had a .630 ops this year in a large sample, he did it to himself.  I would have sent him down earlier in the year

 

This

 

If he produced, he wouldn't have been optioned. Fact.

 

 

Sure, but the argument now would be okay he's done well down there and they haven't called him up.

 

Meanwhile you've had injured regulars out of the lineup (Stanton, Prado, etc) and one of your better bats is sitting in aaa while you're losing all your games.

 

 

Sure, but the argument now would be okay he's done well down there and they haven't called him up.

 

Meanwhile you've had injured regulars out of the lineup (Stanton, Prado, etc) and one of your better bats is sitting in aaa while you're losing all your games.

 

Yes at this point it clearly is for Super 2 reasons and there's nothing that says teams can't do that.