with the current core of players, how long will it be before this team can actually make a serious run at contending for the division or a wild card spot? I don't see many bright spots aside from Giancarlo and Jose Fernandez. I doubt that Ozuna AND Yelich can put together complete seasons in the same year, and the infield is a joke. I don't see anyone in the system that has any kind of promise either. Jose Fernandez and Giancarlo Stanton really are great players. But all they are is a couple of pieces of tasty food in a puddle of chunky vomit, at this point. The strategy of the front office seems to be to put a bunch of below average players and retreads out there and just hope that they all happen to have career years in the same season. There is no depth, and there is nobody that we can really feel very optimistic about, at this point. They have proven that they are incapable of putting together a team that can do anything but suck a giant d*ck year in and year out... The one player that appears to have any type of potential to be a capable starter is Derek Dietrich, and they chose to put him in time-out and leave him there, for misbehaving.

 

the current roster is full of stinky sh*t (Donovan Solano) and sh*t that was once stinky, and is now just stale, dried up turds on a brown lawn (Casey McGahee). How the hell do they get themselves out of this hole? How can anyone seriously think that the people who have dug this hole can fill it up and begin to build a pile???? They only seem to be capable of creating one type of pile, and I am sure that everyone is getting tired of watching it. If I wasn't a baseball fan, I wouldn't care about this team, at all. There is no way they can attract casual fans with this nonsense, and that is how you build a sustainable fanbase.

 

 

Health permitting, there are numerous bright spots outside of Jose and Stanton. I mean, you say that Yelich and Ozuna can't put together complete seasons in the same year, but they just did it last year. Alvarez is also a very good pitcher and is a fine No. 2. Of course, the injury issues are a concern, but that's why I said "health permitting,"

 

Like, did you seriously just say that Dietrich is the only player other than Stanton capable of being a starter? Yelich was a 4.3 WAR player last season. Yeah, he got off to a miserable start this year and had injuries early on, but he has actually been fantastic the last two months and is one of the best defensive outfielders in baseball.

 

Ozuna is having a rough year, but he is still only 24 and is coming off a 3.7 WAR season. For reference, that was better than Yoenis Cespedes, who is one of the bigger names in all of baseball.

 

Even Hechavarria, everyone's favorite whipping boy of 2014, is turning into a solid shortstop. His defensive metrics have finally matched his slickness in the field, and he really could (should?) win a Gold Glove this season. He still stinks offensively, but he is so good defensively that his lack of a bat is bearable (as evidenced by his 2.4 WAR thus far). If he can OPS around .730 next season, he will be one of the best shortstops in baseball, period.

 

The back end of the bullpen is also a bright spot. Capps is a damn stud, and Ramos is also pretty awesome. You don't need to look any further than last year's Royals to see how important a good bullpen is, and the Marlins certainly have the potential to have an elite pen. Just need another piece or two.

 

This team is not NEARLY as far away from contending as some people make it out to be. If they were healthy this year, they would absolutely still be in the running in the NL East.

 

They need to make a couple of moves in free agency this winter, and I am fairly confident they will make an attempt to do so. After all, they tried this past year; it just didn't work out.

 

Sorry, but your post is a complete overreaction.

 

 

I'm always going to say they are several years away, because they always are. By the time the FO decides to spend some money or lucks into a decent draft pick, those young players are on their way out the door because of free-agency.

 

I'm just sick and tired of this nonsense. I really have so little interest in this team anymore because ownership just doesn't give a damn. Worse, there's nothing anyone can do to change this until Loria dies/sells the team.

 

 

Also...some guy named Dee Gordon..ever heard of him?

 

 

Agree about the overreaction. This team has 2 franchise pieces and a number of other good ones, just not enough of them.

 

This team can, assuming a bona-fide manager, easily be a contending team but won't be if Loria just spends the 20M. Need to spend closer to 35M. Team needs a #2 starter, a reliable over 800 OPS RBI machine at 1st, 3rd or LF/CF assuming that won't be Ozuna or Dietrich (with whomever is being replaced traded for whatever) and the luck of a decent run of good health. This team needs at least 2 legitimate and reliable RBI producers.  I'm fearful the team will fall on its face in securing a #2 because Cueto, Zimmerman, Price, Greinke et al won't take Loria's money.   

 

 

The guy with no power, no plate discipline, who refuses to draw walks, and whose entire value over the past 2 years has come from hot(and unsustainable) Aprils before slidingt back to being a below average offensive player when his BABIP normalized, who happens to run fast?

 

But even he is pretty damn good defensively.

 

 

The guy with no power, no plate discipline, who refuses to draw walks, and whose entire value over the past 2 years has come from hot(and unsustainable) Aprils before slidingt back to being a below average offensive player when his BABIP normalized, who happens to run fast?

 

 Yes, he regressed after hitting over .400 in April but he was still hitting over .300 in May and June. He's hitting close to .200 in July but that's only for about 45 AB's. His BABIP will always be high because of his speed. I understand he's not a superstar like his average suggests because almost all his hits are singles but you have to admit that with his at least average defense he is a good starter to have like his WAR suggests. Wild Card isn't here anymore so you don't have to irrationally stick to the "Dee Gordon sucks" stance to prove your point.

 

 

Agree about the overreaction. This team has 2 franchise pieces and a number of other good ones, just not enough of them.

 

This team can, assuming a bona-fide manager, easily be a contending team but won't be if Loria just spends the 20M. Need to spend closer to 35M. Team needs a #2 starter, a reliable over 800 OPS RBI machine at 1st, 3rd or LF/CF assuming that won't be Ozuna or Dietrich (with whomever is being replaced traded for whatever) and the luck of a decent run of good health. This team needs at least 2 legitimate and reliable RBI producers.  I'm fearful the team will fall on its face in securing a #2 because Cueto, Zimmerman, Price, Greinke et al won't take Loria's money.   

 

Bour has an .810 OPS versus RHP. Get the man a platoon partner for lefties. I have -0- problem with the position players next year, they just need two dudes - lefty basher to help Bour and a real 4th OF. Realmuto, Hech, and Prado are all 2 WAR options, Gordon a 3, and the OF could be monstrous for obvious reasons. I'm fine with the 1B options assuming someone to help. Dietrich, Rojas, and Telis all fine for the bench. They should be able to get those two guys for under $5 million in free agency. Not a big deal. Now if Casey mcgehee is that guy, then that's something we can all scream at.

 

Bullpen is fine, they have everyone in house.

 

spend all the money on someone like Scott Kazmir, as they aren't going to sign price Cueto or Greinke, and then look for a Latos type guy on a 1 year deal looking to reestablish value in a good home ballpark in the NL

 

 

His line since May 16th is like .274/.287/.346(or something close to that) over 240 at bats where his BABIP is at his career average.

 

Still a 3 WAR player with the defense and base running. You can't throw away his hot streaks. They count. I agree he is a little over his head on his slash right now and see that .393 BABIP, but he's a good solid 2B and cheap. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

When Jeffrey Loria passes away. 

 

 

His line since May 16th is like .274/.287/.346(or something close to that) over 240 at bats where his BABIP is at his career average.

 

He had a .289/.326/.378 line last year and was a 3.2 fWAR player without the much improved defense he's shown this year. I wouldn't mind selling high on him, but this front office would never do such a thing and you really underrate him as a player. 

 

You can't disregard his hot streaks. They're part of his total production. 

 

 

When Loria, Samson, Jennings and Hill are gone

 

 

 It seems like some of these posters play in a monthly baseball fantasy tournament and picked a bad month to choose Gordon.  Baseball is a game of streaks. You should all know that, and it evens out all the same.

 

I don't think we are that far off. Health was the primary reason why this seaon is a loss.  We have the two best players in there positions with Stanton and Fernandez. A catcher who will be the next Molina, to me that is the most important position in the game. Yelich, Gordon are both high grade B players. Are Bullpin is stacked and is Nast with Capps and Ramos.  

 

Like I said in a previous post. If HA comes back healthy next year the fish are contenders.  He is the key. 

 

 

I am not really discounting his "hot streaks". The thing is, though, his hot streaks are pretty much confined to the first month of the year and he spends the rest of the season being a blackhole in the lineup. And that blackhole will always leadoff because "he's fast".

 

Would it be great if he turned into a legitimate MLB player? Yes, absolutely. But nothing in his track record-this season, the season before that, his MLB career before that, or his pedestrian MiLB career-suggests that he will. He is an 8th hole hitter with no power that doesn't get on base. He had a hot April last year then disappeared for the remainder of the season, with a horrid post-ASB. And it looks like the same exact thing is happening again this year.

 

 

What happened to wild card?

 

 

What happened to wild card?

 

traded to Cincinnati for cash considerations. I heard Admin refused to send money in the deal so we didn't get back very much.

 

 

Bour has an .810 OPS versus RHP. Get the man a platoon partner for lefties. I have -0- problem with the position players next year, they just need two dudes - lefty basher to help Bour and a real 4th OF. Realmuto, Hech, and Prado are all 2 WAR options, Gordon a 3, and the OF could be monstrous for obvious reasons. I'm fine with the 1B options assuming someone to help. Dietrich, Rojas, and Telis all fine for the bench. They should be able to get those two guys for under $5 million in free agency. Not a big deal. Now if Casey mcgehee is that guy, then that's something we can all scream at.

 

Bullpen is fine, they have everyone in house.

 

spend all the money on someone like Scott Kazmir, as they aren't going to sign price Cueto or Greinke, and then look for a Latos type guy on a 1 year deal looking to reestablish value in a good home ballpark in the NL

 

Bullpen is far from fine. Morris and Dunn have been better but we need lock down like KC.

 

How many blown saves do we have this year?

 

 

I am not really discounting his "hot streaks". The thing is, though, his hot streaks are pretty much confined to the first month of the year and he spends the rest of the season being a blackhole in the lineup. And that blackhole will always leadoff because "he's fast".

 

Would it be great if he turned into a legitimate MLB player? Yes, absolutely. But nothing in his track record-this season, the season before that, his MLB career before that, or his pedestrian MiLB career-suggests that he will. He is an 8th hole hitter with no power that doesn't get on base. He had a hot April last year then disappeared for the remainder of the season, with a horrid post-ASB. And it looks like the same exact thing is happening again this year.

 

He was a 3.2 WAR player last year (10th among all second basemen) and is a 2.7 WAR player so far this year (sixth among all second basemen). I understand your concerns about his streakiness, but I think it's a bit hyperbolic to essentially say that he is not a legitimate MLB player when he is clearly one of the better second basemen in the game.

 

 

Contending? Did he say contending?

 

• 
  

 

If they do it like the Astros, which they started to do in 2013, it will take 5 years, it seems like it took the Nationals about the same amount of time too. The Marlins need to pick a path of non-contention for the time being, not that it will differ in their approach from the last five years where they deluded themselves into believing they're contenders, but this time they need to be committed to the process. Take the money they've wasted on free agents that were short term rentals and put that money into player development singing international free agents and drafting the best player available regardless of the signability and yeah and stop trading away competitive balance draft picks! 

 

As a fan would you okay with this approach, because basically they haven't done shit the last five years so what's a few more years?

 

 

Bour has an .810 OPS versus RHP. Get the man a platoon partner for lefties. I have -0- problem with the position players next year, they just need two dudes - lefty basher to help Bour and a real 4th OF. Realmuto, Hech, and Prado are all 2 WAR options, Gordon a 3, and the OF could be monstrous for obvious reasons. I'm fine with the 1B options assuming someone to help. Dietrich, Rojas, and Telis all fine for the bench. They should be able to get those two guys for under $5 million in free agency. Not a big deal. Now if Casey mcgehee is that guy, then that's something we can all scream at.

 

Bullpen is fine, they have everyone in house.

 

spend all the money on someone like Scott Kazmir, as they aren't going to sign price Cueto or Greinke, and then look for a Latos type guy on a 1 year deal looking to reestablish value in a good home ballpark in the NL

 

I like that Kazmir idea. Would you platoon dietrich and prado or just start one of them?

 

 

I wonder if this Ozuna thing is pissing off the other players or not.

 

 

I wonder if this Ozuna thing is pissing off the other players or not.

 

Yes, several

 

 

Not surprising. It's purely money based on the team based.

 

I'm fine with pissing off the players with this, since they'll get over it if we for whatever reason start winning next year. It's more important that we gain an extra year of Ozuna before he potentially cashes in if he breaks out at some point in the future. It'll at least make up a tiny little bit for messing up the Jose situation so poorly (but not really. That was still the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made outside of Kolek over Rodon).

 

 

Not surprising. It's purely money based on the team based.

 

I'm fine with pissing off the players with this, since they'll get over it if we for whatever reason start winning next year. It's more important that we gain an extra year of Ozuna before he potentially cashes in if he breaks out at some point in the future. It'll at least make up a tiny little bit for messing up the Jose situation so poorly (but not really. That was still the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made outside of Kolek over Rodon).

 

The biggest mistake this franchise ever made was not extending Cabrera when they should have. That absolutely cost us a couple of playoff appearances. The Marlins could have had Cabrera, Hanley and Stanton in the heart of the order for a couple of years.