How could the offense be good? It's basically the same as last season's but with Stanton getting more playing time over Ichiro, hopefully.

 

Last year's offense was one of the worst in the NL.

 

going by runs they were actually 2nd worse in all of mlb! By OPS+ they were 8th worse in mlb. 

 

 

going by runs they were actually 2nd worse in all of mlb! By OPS+ they were 8th worse in mlb. 

 

This is what I mean. It's not really a good offense. The best they can hope for is Stanton staying healthy. If he plays 150 games, this is probably an average offense at best.

 

 

This is what I mean. It's not really a good offense. The best they can hope for is Stanton staying healthy. If he plays 150 games, this is probably an average offense at best.

 

Well we got Yelich raking and JT a year older... What turns the tide is if it's 2014 Ozuna or 2015 Ozuna...So far looks like the latter

 

 

Well we got Yelich raking and JT a year older... What turns the tide is if it's 2014 Ozuna or 2015 Ozuna...So far looks like the latter

 

There are always what ifs, sure. What if some people regress too?

 

 

I think it's fair to say it's a league average offense if healthy. 

 

This bullpen is so damn bad though. It's seriously impossible to be competitive with this bullpen. 3 or 4 of those guys shouldn't even be in the big leagues. 

 

 

I think it's fair to say it's a league average offense if healthy. 

 

This bullpen is so damn bad though. It's seriously impossible to be competitive with this bullpen. 3 or 4 of those guys shouldn't even be in the big leagues. 

 

Narveson, Breslow, and McGowan most likely would not have made any other team. Good teams wouldn't want them because they're bad. Bad teams wouldn't want them because they're rebuilding and need guys with upside. 

 

 

game experience was a 2/10 for me today. don't let that sun fool you. it was cold as hell. didn't like to lose and when Jackson came in...what can I say? this is a game that could have been had, but the bullpen blew it and this is evident based on opening day and today. 1-3. not good.

 

 

The problem with the offense is that nobody on the team not named Stanton and Yelich know how to take a walk, and we don't have enough power in the lineup to make up for the fact that this team is awful at getting on base.

 

I also feel Ozuna is more 2015 than 2014. He may have a high upside, but his swing has severely regressed, he doesn't belong anywhere near the #2 spot in the lineup, and his apathetic attitude has been questioned by people within the organization. I don't see Ozuna lasting much longer with this team and it'll probably hurt that we didn't trade him when we could get something in return.

 

 

Narveson, Breslow, and McGowan most likely would not have made any other team. Good teams wouldn't want them because they're bad. Bad teams wouldn't want them because they're rebuilding and need guys with upside. 

 

It's so obviously apparent that these three are the problem. Morris may also be on that list but his past gives him more chances to prove himself.

 

It's just absolutely amazing that we have guys like Wittgren, Ege, Ellington and Barraclaugh as close to major league ready as you can possibly get and they'd rather throw solutions that seemed bad from the start out there. I stand by my belief this is Mattingly being old school and trusting veterans with experience over young guys, even if it hurts the team.

 

 

I know people are going to say I'm a pessimist or whatever, but I expect that the team will be pretty out of the race by the deadline and Ozuna will be traded. Then Ichiro will start everyday. That's my prediction.

 

 

I know people are going to say I'm a pessimist or whatever, but I expect that the team will be pretty out of the race by the deadline and Ozuna will be traded. Then Ichiro will start everyday. That's my prediction.

 

4 games man. 4 games....but the bullpen simply needs to be addressed right now.

 

 

I would have said the same exact thing if the team started 4-0.

 

 

I love how everyone is pinning this on the bullpen. We scored 1 run in 8 innings. 7 of those pitched by Ross. The Nats 5th starter. You can't expect the pen to hold a lineup like the Nationals to 0 runs. Which at the point they blew the game open we would have had to have been shutting them out to have a lead. This isn't on the pen. It's on the lineup. Too many swings that look like golf swings. 

 

Miami is 3rd in NL (6th overall) with a .278 team average

 

 

I know people are going to say I'm a pessimist or whatever, but I expect that the team will be pretty out of the race by the deadline and Ozuna will be traded. Then Ichiro will start everyday. That's my prediction.

 

 

 

trade Ozuna for a REAL bp arm?  sounds insane but if he doesn't continue to produce after they end this silly #2 hole experiment we might be able to get at least an average bp arm (and thus instantly our best bp arm) -  and then they can call up Gillespie to take his spot in the outfield.  I'm not ready to abandon Ozuna just yet...still a very small sample size this year and I refuse to believe they'll keep him at #2 for much longer but if we get 20 or so games in and he's still awful then yeah, might want to look at a BP arm in exchange as sad as that sounds.  Would be lovely to have someone come out of the pen who can actually K someone. 

 

 

I have seen definite improvement in at bats and approach at the plate. You can definitely see Yelich, Bour, Hech progressing and being a year older.

 

The BP will be the biggest issue. People can point to last years offensive numbers, but you should expect a jump with Yelich and other young players starting to come into their own. We are 4 games in and 2 of them out most reliable SP didn't perform. So let's all chill.

 

 

I am confused as to why Breslow was not brought in over Narveson. 

 

 

I would have said the same exact thing if the team started 4-0.

 

Yeah I'm in agreement with el penguino here. 4-0, 0-4...the flaws with the team are the same ones that were talked about last season. People hype up the offense but statistically Realmuto was a bad hitting catcher (even if he was better than every one since Baker/Paulino), Bour is at the very best a top 20 hitting 1B and nothing more, Hechavarria will never learn plate discipline (although he's fine in the 8 spot), Prado is old and a bit overrated because of his past, Ozuna is overrated by the fan base these days, Stanton needs to stay healthy and has always been a super streaky hitter (when he's hot he's best in baseball, but when he's cold he'll go a full month without a home run).

 

I think biggest positive surprise has been Dee Gordon being the same hitter so far. I don't expect him to learn plate discipline, but if he continues to bat over .300 in his career then the Heaney trade becomes a tie rather than a complete loss with Heaney/Hernandez/Barnes/Hatcher all being super useful to the Dodgers. He also seems to be an incredible locker room guy, so definitely somebody we need to find a way to hold onto for as long as he's useful.

 

 

How could the offense be good? It's basically the same as last season's but with Stanton getting more playing time over Ichiro, hopefully.

 

Last year's offense was one of the worst in the NL.

 

To be fair, that's a huge difference. About 40 runs if you take 300 of Ichiro's PA and give them to Stanton. That moves us from 2nd to last to 10th in the NL last year, so a bit below average

 

I also dislike solely the talk of "offense" because defense matters too and last year they were one of the best defensive squads in baseball and that should continue again this year. The Royals have been a good squad because they've paid great defense with average offense. The difference is, the Royals have had a pitching staff.

 

 

To be fair, that's a huge difference. About 40 runs if you take 300 of Ichiro's PA and give them to Stanton. That moves us from 2nd to last to 10th in the NL last year, so a bit below average

 

I also dislike solely the talk of "offense" because defense matters too and last year they were one of the best defensive squads in baseball and that should continue again this year. The Royals have been a good squad because they've paid great defense with average offense. The difference is, the Royals have had a pitching staff.

 

So it basically moves the Marlins from 14th to 10th, roughly speaking. That's tangible but not quite huge. That's still a slightly below average offense which supports my belief that the Marlins's offense is average at best with a healthy Stanton.

 

I also don't think that offense is the only dimension. But it annoys me when people say that the offense is "fine" when it's rather mediocre.

 

 

I think the important thing to remember is that the team didn't change much for the better in the offseason outside of the Chen signing. Last year's team lost 91 games and I don't think that the Chen addition plus healthy Jose and Stanton will be enough to win 20 extra games.

 

And that's assuming everyone stay healthy. Since the Marlins have no depth at all, if any of the star players (Stanton, Gordon, Jose, etc) miss any significant amount of time, the season's over.

 

Sorry to be a realist, but I'm surprised that so many people think that this team is "on the verge of doing something great." (I've heard that expression here).

 

 

Yeah I'm in agreement with el penguino here. 4-0, 0-4...the flaws with the team are the same ones that were talked about last season. People hype up the offense but statistically Realmuto was a bad hitting catcher (even if he was better than every one since Baker/Paulino), Bour is at the very best a top 20 hitting 1B and nothing more, Hechavarria will never learn plate discipline (although he's fine in the 8 spot), Prado is old and a bit overrated because of his past, Ozuna is overrated by the fan base these days, Stanton needs to stay healthy and has always been a super streaky hitter (when he's hot he's best in baseball, but when he's cold he'll go a full month without a home run).

 

I think biggest positive surprise has been Dee Gordon being the same hitter so far. I don't expect him to learn plate discipline, but if he continues to bat over .300 in his career then the Heaney trade becomes a tie rather than a complete loss with Heaney/Hernandez/Barnes/Hatcher all being super useful to the Dodgers. He also seems to be an incredible locker room guy, so definitely somebody we need to find a way to hold onto for as long as he's useful.

 

I agree with this.

 

 

I think the important thing to remember is that the team didn't change much for the better in the offseason outside of the Chen signing. Last year's team lost 91 games and I don't think that the Chen addition plus healthy Jose and Stanton will be enough to win 20 extra games.

 

And that's assuming everyone stay healthy. Since the Marlins have no depth at all, if any of the star players (Stanton, Gordon, Jose, etc) miss any significant amount of time, the season's over.

 

Sorry to be a realist, but I'm surprised that so many people think that this team is "on the verge of doing something great." (I've heard that expression here).

 

Honestly, this has already happened. The loss of Capps was huge. I was more optimistic about the team with Capps healthy. Even though he's just a reliever, having him on the team pitching high leverage innings as opposed to some of these bums we're trotting out would've been huge. This team always has no depth. The front office is terrible. 

 

 

Yeah I'm in agreement with el penguino here. 4-0, 0-4...the flaws with the team are the same ones that were talked about last season. People hype up the offense but statistically Realmuto was a bad hitting catcher (even if he was better than every one since Baker/Paulino), Bour is at the very best a top 20 hitting 1B and nothing more, Hechavarria will never learn plate discipline (although he's fine in the 8 spot), Prado is old and a bit overrated because of his past, Ozuna is overrated by the fan base these days, Stanton needs to stay healthy and has always been a super streaky hitter (when he's hot he's best in baseball, but when he's cold he'll go a full month without a home run).

 

I think biggest positive surprise has been Dee Gordon being the same hitter so far. I don't expect him to learn plate discipline, but if he continues to bat over .300 in his career then the Heaney trade becomes a tie rather than a complete loss with Heaney/Hernandez/Barnes/Hatcher all being super useful to the Dodgers. He also seems to be an incredible locker room guy, so definitely somebody we need to find a way to hold onto for as long as he's useful.

 

I agree with this to a degree... but you have to look at each player individually when it comes to hitting and this offense...

 

Gordon... great lead off hitter and couldn't ask for much more

 

Ozuna... overrated and no plate discipline... a big weakness...

 

Yelich... started off slow last year and is still developing. Has superstar potential and is still growing. If he takes another substantial jump this year that could greatly affect the offensive production.

 

Stanton... has to stay healthy and still needs to work on consistency and plate discipline. Reality is when you lose your best player for over half the year your offense will suffer

 

Prado... Old and yes declining, but still a good hitter and consistent player.

 

Bour... Probably never an above average player, but I still see develppment. His plate discipline seems to be improving and is starting to show the ability to go the other way.

 

Realmuto... Too early to tell if he will be a catcher that can hit or just a good catcher...

 

Hech... He is what he is. A good option at the back of the lineup but probably peaked as a hitter.

 

I think you guys are too hard on what is still a very young team. Yelich, Bour, Realmuto, and Hech are all still developing players. The reality is we lost a superstar player for over half the year. What did you guys think was gonna happen to the offense? Yelich will become a more dangerous hitter and we have some very good options. We may not improve a ton, but we also may take a huge jump offensively.

 

 

So it basically moves the Marlins from 14th to 10th, roughly speaking. That's tangible but not quite huge. That's still a slightly below average offense which supports my belief that the Marlins's offense is average at best with a healthy Stanton.

 

I also don't think that offense is the only dimension. But it annoys me when people say that the offense is "fine" when it's rather mediocre.

 

I think the offense is fine in the sense that I think the starting players are fine, outside of Bour. The bad offensive players last year were Hech, Ozuna, and Realmuto. Two of them are good defensive players at positions where below average offense is normal and are average at worst players, and the other is a young player you're in a position to live or die with him. Bour is the only below average player on this squad and the only place where you can actually upgrade a position without a superstar, but he's at least not a Bonifacio.

 

The bench is another matter, with two to four blackholes in Ichiro, Mathis, Johnson, and Rojas. The bigger problem, as it always is with this team, is lack of depth rather than with the starters.

 

edit: and I think this is far from a playoff caliber team, I'm not arguing that. I just don't think the problem is with our starting line up. The problem is basically everything else