May 23, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said: I realize this is in jest, but maybe Bruce had to see his pitching staff be - 5th in ERA - before he opens up payroll a little. Assuming this year is status quo, Ng is certainly telling him 5-7 more P monsters are coming and we can't trade all of them to get the offensive upgrades we need. We can go get 1 big-time guy and likely another Wendle/Stallings type or two, but you need to open the payroll to get a free agency star. It's like history repeats when Correa opts out. They should have signed him this offseason but may get a do over. I don't know. If this offseason was the they will never care if they don't move up to "Milwaukee" level payroll offseason, next year is THEY ABSOLUTELY don't care based on the dominance of the SP staff right now. It's now proof in concept and not just projections. Outside of Tampa, I can't think of another ownership group that wouldn't GO FOR IT. Caps lock GO FOR IT with these pitchers. You can forgive them not doing shit this offseason with 2nd/3rd tier guys, if they make it up with two killers by opening day next year. So we'll see what they do. I'm still cautiously optimistic even if no past behavior indicates they will spend. The pitching is just that good and going to get better, and even Bruce will eventually figure that out. It's only partially in jest - I could buy an argument that they were waiting for at least two big names to be available at the right time to really make a splash and get the media noticing. I don't expect it entirely, but, getting Judge + Correa together would, obviously, make this lineup decent at minimum and with some breakouts / reversions to the mean, it's a very deep and terrifying lineup, plus Jacob Stallings, plus potential redundancy [and Sanchez can move to LF with Soler DHing and Aguilar/Cooper traded and/or non-tendered so Lewin is now in the lineup]. Thus: 2B Jazz CF Judge SS Correa DH Soler LF Sanchez RF Garcia 1B Lewin 3B Wendle/BA C Stallings Bench of Rojas, Wendle/BA, Henry, Jerar/Bleday isn't too bad, I think. If Rojas doesn't stick around, then so be it. [This probably won't happen, it's simply a dream/idea of the payroll opening up]
May 23, 20224 yr I think Sherman and Ng think the big splash off-season signings already happened. Only problem is that it was Soler and Garcia.
May 23, 20224 yr 15 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said: I think Sherman and Ng think the big splash off-season signings already happened. Only problem is that it was Soler and Garcia. yep, i really do believe they view these as "BIG" signings for this club. Oh well. Judge's contract would be a Stanton-esque disaster in waiting - although mitigated a little but as at least the DH is universal now.
May 23, 20224 yr Author If we're going to make a big signing, I'd want Correa assuming he opts out. But I doubt they even try considering he made sense this off-season and they didn't try.
May 23, 20224 yr 5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said: If we're going to make a big signing, I'd want Correa assuming he opts out. But I doubt they even try considering he made sense this off-season and they didn't try. Which goes back to the SP all being projection, and now they are 5th in STAFF era without Meyer, Cabrera, Sixto, Eury, and Eder who may all be up June 2023 if all goes to plan. As well as Rogers, Bender, Hernandez playing like jerks, and they are obviously better than showing right now. Is Bruce just cheap, or, does seeing this pitching improvement trigger the "let's go" moment when literally 5+ more awesome guys on paper are coming. We can fault him for the lack of vision in this scenario for not realizing this was going to happen (which we all generally agreed on, I think), but maybe what's happening is the actual results he needs to see.
May 23, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Michael said: It's only partially in jest - I could buy an argument that they were waiting for at least two big names to be available at the right time to really make a splash and get the media noticing. I mean, Correa + any of the 10-15 other awesome FA would have done this. Let's say they signed Correa, DFA'd Aguilar, didn't sign Soler, then signed local hero Rizzo.... they'd be sitting at around $105m and can also sell they still signed Garcia, and got Wendle, Sulser, Stallings, and Scott. Like, that's a big splash. And if that splash isn't big enough, trade Watson, Meyer/Cabrera, Bleday/Burdick, Fulton/Salas, and Fitterer/Jerar for B. Reynolds and Bednar. Under $110m. That team is incredible on paper. So they could have done the SPLASH this year for $35m more in payroll, with the only defections Aguilar, Soler, 2 major, and 2-3 medium prospects. What gives ya know? Who doesn't love that team on paper? Basically, I don't really see it as a timing for a splash issue. I see this as being ridiculous cheap, or maybe he had to see the pitching blossom first. I hope it's the later. I think we all know which it is though. We'll see what they do. If they trade Pablo for an epic CF, sign Correa, and make 2-3 more Wendle/Stallings/Sulser kind of deals, that's a pretty epic offseason for 2023.
May 23, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said: I mean, Correa + any of the 10-15 other awesome FA would have done this. Let's say they signed Correa, DFA'd Aguilar, didn't sign Soler, then signed local hero Rizzo.... they'd be sitting at around $105m and can also sell they still signed Garcia, and got Wendle, Sulser, Stallings, and Scott. Like, that's a big splash. And if that splash isn't big enough, trade Watson, Meyer/Cabrera, Bleday/Burdick, Fulton/Salas, and Fitterer/Jerar for B. Reynolds and Bednar. Under $110m. That team is incredible on paper. So they could have done the SPLASH this year for $35m more in payroll, with the only defections Aguilar, Soler, 2 major, and 2-3 medium prospects. What gives ya know? Who doesn't love that team on paper? Basically, I don't really see it as a timing for a splash issue. I see this as being ridiculous cheap, or maybe he had to see the pitching blossom first. I hope it's the later. I think we all know which it is though. We'll see what they do. If they trade Pablo for an epic CF, sign Correa, and make 2-3 more Wendle/Stallings/Sulser kind of deals, that's a pretty epic offseason for 2023. I can get behind all this.
May 23, 20224 yr FWIW I believe it was Das that said, hey Marlins should say fuck it and go sign both Correa and Rodon. While Rodon would be a fun luxury, Correa would not. He has changed the culture of that Twins team that is largely the same as the disaster it was last year, due in large due to his leadership. Not convinced, go read some stuff on the Twins. Correa would provide that middle of the order type bat, leadership and up the middle defense winning teams need. Rodon would have allowed the Marlins to make a strength even stronger. That said, imagine how good this staff would be with defenders playing positions that were best for them!
May 24, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Das Texan said: FWIW I believe it was Das that said, hey Marlins should say fuck it and go sign both Correa and Rodon. While Rodon would be a fun luxury, Correa would not. He has changed the culture of that Twins team that is largely the same as the disaster it was last year, due in large due to his leadership. Not convinced, go read some stuff on the Twins. Correa would provide that middle of the order type bat, leadership and up the middle defense winning teams need. Rodon would have allowed the Marlins to make a strength even stronger. That said, imagine how good this staff would be with defenders playing positions that were best for them! Correa + Rodon with what they have right now is close to $130m payroll. Even in hypothetical Bruce will spend land, that's a big jump from $100-110m which I feel is more "reasonable" to expect. But if you bounce Garcia, Aguilar, and Soler, they could trade prospects for Reynolds + Bednar, and afford another $3-4m better suited bench 1B/DH type and that's one hell of a better team. All roads lead back to Bruce being cheap. This would be a radically different team at $105-110m and it would only be 2-4 different players.
May 24, 20224 yr And right on cue - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/pablo-lopez-is-one-of-baseballs-most-overlooked-starters/ TLDR - Pablo is amazing and this is a verbatim quote which will generate some fist pumps (emphasis added)............... The Marlins like to claim they’ve changed. We saw it when they demanded a taxpayer-funded stadium, then had a fire sale. We saw it when they signed Giancarlo Stanton and Christian Yelich to extensions, then traded both. We saw it when they brought in Derek Jeter as the franchise’s public face, only to have him later resign; according to CC Sabathia, Jeter decided to leave due to ownership’s unwillingness to invest in the team. At this point, it would take a monumental, long-term, good-faith effort for the franchise to alter its reputation as one of baseball’s cheapskates, a club that exists mainly by the sufferance of wealthier teams. Signing a key contributor like López and then not trading him in a fire sale two years down the road would be a great place to start, should the Miami Marlins want to actually change. YES! I'm not sure I agree with FG's contract projection elsewhere in article (6/$111), maybe after this season if he goes full on ace as surmised a little bit above, but there is certainly an argument to be made that Pablo might be so good, it's worth keeping him versus banking on the kids. It's a gamble either way. I have a hard time thinking they'd sign Pablo to a larger deal than Sandy one year later (let alone double which is the FG projection) as Sandy may all of a sudden turn into a Dolphins cornerback and let's not let that happen. I think it's just taking him through arbitration and using Meyer/Cabrera as the big trade and/or sign Pablo to a 4 year extension for "Sandy" money so neither feel disrespected and see if Pablo goes for it right now, or just trade him for the mother-load COMBINED with then spending on that "key contributor" as mentioned above. They have to immediately reinvest with the Correa level move here.Two paths, not sure what is the best. I suppose it's contingent on what asset they get back in the inevitable trade. Same broken record, which pitcher gets moved. I think I'd pitch Pablo 4/$46-52 range extension right now (and frontload it as an incentive for him to sign and to keep 25/26 cheaper!!!), and if he says no just keeping shopping Pablo/Meyer/Cabrera until one of them get you the fucking CF already. Also big Marlins day over at FG - I think this blurb on Cabrera is relevant to Pablo as is it worth keeping Pablo if Cabrera has major injury/reliever risk? If the move Pablo, they REALLY need to get 2 or 3 good SP out of Eury/Meyer/Cabrera/Sixto/Eder/Hernandez/Poteet. I'd take that bet, but there is a lot of risk of course. - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/monday-prospect-notes-5-23-22/ The oft-injured Cabrera began the season with a biceps injury that prevented him from pitching at an affiliate until his lone late-April rehab start with Jupiter. This is the sixth (!) consecutive season Cabrera has had injury issues that brought about an IL stint and his second consecutive year with a biceps issue that delayed the start of his season. As has been the case after every other injury Cabrera has suffered, his stuff has come all the way back and he is throwing extremely hard while complementing his arm strength with a bevy of plus secondary offerings. He routinely gets into the upper-90s with his fastball and his velo has been trending up during his post-IL starts, beginning in the 95-99 mph range in his first outing and trending closer to 97-100 mph more recently. Similar to teammate Sixto Sánchez, this pitch’s shape and movement causes it to play down, and it isn’t an elite pitch despite having elite velocity. Cabrera adds a plus upper-80s slider that features so little downward movement that it almost seems to be rising compared to most breakers, though throughout this most recent rehab period he has been working more with a low-to-mid-80s curveball that may usurp his slider as his go-to breaking ball. Cabrera’s best pitch is a killer changeup that, while on the firm side in the 90-92 mph range, features very low spin and significant fade and tumble. His command and control, both of which were firmly in the average bucket as a younger minor leaguer, regressed mightily during his brief 2021 time in the majors, which may have been a result of him being amped up or simply trying to get too cute around the edges to avoid his fastball getting hit. Cabrera has starter traits, but there are still questions about his ability to hold up over the course of an entire season, as between injuries and conservative workloads, 100.1 is the most innings he’s thrown in a season, and that was all the way back in 2018. He still has the best stuff of all the Marlins 40-man arms not currently in the big leagues.
May 24, 20224 yr 20 hours ago, MarlinsLou said: I realize this is in jest, but maybe Bruce had to see his pitching staff be - 5th in ERA - before he opens up payroll a little. Assuming this year is status quo, Ng is certainly telling him 5-7 more P monsters are coming and we can't trade all of them to get the offensive upgrades we need. We can go get 1 big-time guy and likely another Wendle/Stallings type or two, but you need to open the payroll to get a free agency star. It's like history repeats when Correa opts out. They should have signed him this offseason but may get a do over. I don't know. If this offseason was the they will never care if they don't move up to "Milwaukee" level payroll offseason, next year is THEY ABSOLUTELY don't care based on the dominance of the SP staff right now. It's now proof in concept and not just projections. Outside of Tampa, I can't think of another ownership group that wouldn't GO FOR IT. Caps lock GO FOR IT with these pitchers. You can forgive them not doing shit this offseason with 2nd/3rd tier guys, if they make it up with two killers by opening day next year. So we'll see what they do. I'm still cautiously optimistic even if no past behavior indicates they will spend. The pitching is just that good and going to get better, and even Bruce will eventually figure that out. At this point, I have no confidence they’re going to make the moves they NEED to make, and will instead do the typical bandaid “on the cheap” approach and then continue to wonder why the 1) team performs below expectations and conversely, 2) the fans don’t show up. 20 hours ago, Michael said: It's only partially in jest - I could buy an argument that they were waiting for at least two big names to be available at the right time to really make a splash and get the media noticing. I don't expect it entirely, but, getting Judge + Correa together would, obviously, make this lineup decent at minimum and with some breakouts / reversions to the mean, it's a very deep and terrifying lineup, plus Jacob Stallings, plus potential redundancy [and Sanchez can move to LF with Soler DHing and Aguilar/Cooper traded and/or non-tendered so Lewin is now in the lineup]. Thus: 2B Jazz CF Judge SS Correa DH Soler LF Sanchez RF Garcia 1B Lewin 3B Wendle/BA C Stallings Bench of Rojas, Wendle/BA, Henry, Jerar/Bleday isn't too bad, I think. If Rojas doesn't stick around, then so be it. [This probably won't happen, it's simply a dream/idea of the payroll opening up] Except if that’s been the plan, they could’ve instead added Correa this offseason and then someone else next year if they had a specific target in mind. They’d have then been better this season (generating more interest in the fan base) and also staggered the contracts so they’re not directly overlapping for all years of the contracts. Also, why risk both of your targets being available and signing with you in a single off season, when there was at least one presumable target available this past offseason? Maybe Correa ends up loving Minnesota and doesn’t opt out; he’s not even an option then because they didn’t even try to sign him. I guess you could pivot to Turner, but given Ng’s paralyzation this offseason, he’d probably go off the board while she’s searching for the CF she didn’t get this year… Or Maybe they viewed Turner + others in next year’s class as their SS target instead and are targeting next offseason to spend big? That’s a massive MAYBE at best, and one that I don’t have any confidence in being true.
May 24, 20224 yr 53 minutes ago, flsportsfan83 said: I'll be going to see Pablo tonight. How'd you get his address?
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