August 27, 20223 yr 17 hours ago, Das Texan said: I'd hardly get my panties in a wad over a relief pitcher having a couple of good years honestly. Who cares? If Wittgren was an Andrew Miller and had a long sustained level of success be upset. Even Brad Hand level of success. But Nick Wittgren? Who really gives a flying fuck? The point is they seem to DFA players that at least have some use/are decent, and get nothing for them and then instead keep players that clearly have no future/don’t contribute anything, not hung up on Wittgren specifically…he was an example.
August 27, 20223 yr 39 minutes ago, rmc523 said: The point is they seem to DFA players that at least have some use/are decent, and get nothing for them and then instead keep players that clearly have no future/don’t contribute anything, not hung up on Wittgren specifically…he was an example. Who have they DFA'd anytime recently that has any real market value/use? Besides Wittgren was released by Mike Hill I believe which was a bit curious at the time but in the end, middle innings relief pitcher is so what honestly.
August 27, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, Das Texan said: Who have they DFA'd anytime recently that has any real market value/use? Besides Wittgren was released by Mike Hill I believe which was a bit curious at the time but in the end, middle innings relief pitcher is so what honestly. it's not so much the fact that it was Wittgren or Harold - it's more that the guys they DO release seem to at least be usable and the guys they keep are guys like Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, et al are god awful. They just don't seem to have a handle on how to evaluate guys.
August 27, 20223 yr 20 hours ago, Das Texan said: I'd hardly get my panties in a wad over a relief pitcher having a couple of good years honestly. Who cares? If Wittgren was an Andrew Miller and had a long sustained level of success be upset. Even Brad Hand level of success. But Nick Wittgren? Who really gives a flying fuck? Relievers are super overrated, give us Helsley.
August 27, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, hovertical said: it's not so much the fact that it was Wittgren or Harold - it's more that the guys they DO release seem to at least be usable and the guys they keep are guys like Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, et al are god awful. They just don't seem to have a handle on how to evaluate guys. This
August 27, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Erick said: Relievers are super overrated, give us Helsley. sure send us Sandy back.
August 27, 20223 yr Author 11 minutes ago, Das Texan said: sure send us Sandy back. Can't get an ace for an overrated reliever. Ya dummy.
August 27, 20223 yr 17 minutes ago, Das Texan said: sure send us Sandy back. You’re contradicting yourself. Relievers are overrated. We’ll give you a scrub. Helsley will be awful in the next year or two anyway, so no big deal.
August 27, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, Erick said: You’re contradicting yourself. Relievers are overrated. We’ll give you a scrub. Helsley will be awful in the next year or two anyway, so no big deal. I actually said middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen.
August 27, 20223 yr 52 minutes ago, Das Texan said: I actually said middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen. But did you say it first?
August 27, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, Das Texan said: I actually said middle inning relievers are a dime a dozen. Helsley was a middle inning reliever before this season. Will probably revert back to that. Trade him.
August 28, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, hovertical said: it's not so much the fact that it was Wittgren or Harold - it's more that the guys they DO release seem to at least be usable and the guys they keep are guys like Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, et al are god awful. They just don't seem to have a handle on how to evaluate guys. Well said. It wouldn't suck to lose a few good players if the ones we chose to keep weren't such shit.
August 30, 20223 yr On 8/27/2022 at 12:15 PM, hovertical said: it's not so much the fact that it was Wittgren or Harold - it's more that the guys they DO release seem to at least be usable and the guys they keep are guys like Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, et al are god awful. They just don't seem to have a handle on how to evaluate guys. This isn't accurate. This has been mentioned by Das, but this doesn't account for minor league options - which at the time Diaz and Harrison had and Ramirez did not. This is a *big* deal when constructing the then 25 man/40 man roster. Blanket statements like this don't account for procedural roster admin rules. Ramirez was terrible in 2020, and then terrible in 2021. So you'd have to give this guy a 2 year lifeboat through the 2021 season and then into 2022 to get this year. Or he'd have to want to sign as a MILB free agent with Starling, Duval, Dickerson, Brinson, Sierra, Harrison, and guys like Anderson, Berti, and Cooper who were popping out into the OF (plus they did sign VVM in this time and at the time he was considered a hot IFA prospect), ahead of him. It frankly makes no sense why he would sign here without a MLB guarantee, and then the Marlins were in no position to give him a 25 man roster spot with this depth chart (both MLB and guys with options) and that he was a replacement level player. Good for Ramirez to turn himself into something this year, but this is *not* something to complain about. This is yet another pointing at things they do as a problem out of frustration of this season versus objectively seeing if they messed up. They didn't here even if Ramirez is pretty good this season. Frankly, I think they probably win more than they lose here - Pop, Bender, Anderson, Berti, Thompson, Okert - and we'll call Cooper/Caleb a wash with King as Cooper and Caleb both have been pretty useful for "castaways" (6+ WAR for Marlins) even if King (2.4 WAR over 130 innings which is great) looks awesome. King has a bunch of ground to make up so I'll be fair and assume he's a good reliever for another few years and Cooper's time is about to end here. I looked back a few years - same analysis applies to R. Ortega. They'd had to sign him to a MiLB deal for 2 years. Not a mistake there even if sort of solid now. Dietrich and Dean didn't turn into anything. Wittgren didn't turn into anything. Urena isn't good. Hard to justify keeping Tyler Kinney around for 2+ years to get this year. Conley isn't good. They could have *probably* stashed Steckenrider on IL/last 40 man spot and got his 2021 season. And the bigger ones - Jarlin Garcia, Jose Quijada, and Ryne Stanek. They could have kept them around for sure based on service time/depth/options, but they opted to move on. So then does this batch of guys and King look better than Pop, Bender, Anderson, Berti, Thompson, Okert, Cooper, and Caleb? I think they've won overall here. In any event - it would be REALLY nice to pick up the next Cody Ross this offseason for cash considerations. They are due for some luck with an ordinary bat. Another Berti for a few years basically. It would be a huge get for them for sure. Let us hope as Cody was bought for $1 and that's a Bruce type move.
August 30, 20223 yr It's so adorable when Lou continues to disagree with pretty much everything I say and his little contrarian sidekick comes in to defend him. These threads are more entertaining than the games being played. Harold was not awful in 19 or 21 or this year. He would have made a very useful bat on the Marlins specifically compared to the trash they ran out there.
August 30, 20223 yr 41 minutes ago, hovertical said: It's so adorable when Lou continues to disagree with pretty much everything I say and his little contrarian sidekick comes in to defend him. These threads are more entertaining than the games being played. Harold was not awful in 19 or 21 or this year. He would have made a very useful bat on the Marlins specifically compared to the trash they ran out there. I like Harold!!!
August 30, 20223 yr 54 minutes ago, hovertical said: It's so adorable when Lou continues to disagree with pretty much everything I say and his little contrarian sidekick comes in to defend him. These threads are more entertaining than the games being played. Harold was not awful in 19 or 21 or this year. He would have made a very useful bat on the Marlins specifically compared to the trash they ran out there. Then stop being objectively wrong or at minimum just a bit outside to quote Uecker? Notice how you don't ever bother offering anything and just complain. Also I have a sidekick? Someone defends me? You can be frustrated and objective. One day maybe you'll figure that out and realize there is a process to everything. As well as administrative rules like option years which are extremely important in analyzing what they are doing. Ramirez had a -.3 WAR his Marlins career, and -.1 WAR in his Indians career. So if you want to say below replacement level is not awful, go for it? This is an objectively wrong take. The Marlins guaranteeing him a roster spot after 2020 means you're keeping him over Marte, Duvall, Dickerson, Brinson, Sierra, and I suppose you could argue Cooper, Berti, Anderson, or Aguilar. Sierra was coming off a not so bad 19/20 so he's out as he was a nominally high prospect and a true CF, so we get to Brinson. Are you giving up on Brinson after a truly awful 18-20, or hoping he is a late bloomer? Versus the nominal upside of a maybe backup OF you'd maybe get with Ramirez? Who also has shown objectively relatively nothing for 2 seasons? Frankly, you take Brinson every time as a hope and prayer as you can find guys like Ramirez more than likely. To note, they should have still signed a better OF than Brinson which is again the constant "Bruce" problem. These guys should never be in the roster discussion. There are SO MANY things to complain about with the Marlins, but this isn't one of them *TWO* years later. Every franchise churns these low end roster guys and complains about the ones who arguably got away (M. King, Steckenrider, Jarlin, Quijada, Ryne Stanek, Kinley, Ortega, H. Ramirez), but fails to realize you also win a lot of these moves (Pop, Bender, Anderson, Berti, Thompson, Okert, Cooper, and Caleb). Frankly, the Marlins are likely above water here the last few years as Cooper/Berti/Anderson were particularly pretty good and you have to go way back to Brad Hand to find a true screw up that matters. Maybe I am missing someone though and I'm wrong. Let's just stop complaining to complain because the Marlins suck right now. Frustration of 5 years has boiled over into the ridiculous for months, so yea, cheer up and not worrying about Harold Ramirez 2 years later and Joe Dunand being DFA'd. These were not wrong decisions or issues that matter. It's that easy.
August 30, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, pollythewog said: He’s bad now I think? Needs another 50 or so PA as things start normalizing a bit around 125PA for the season. Practically we need double than that but not sure he gets that many PA ROS. That's fine though. But .304/.333/.449 (.373 BABIP) and the 22% K rate has held pretty consistent and he added a recent walk (4%) to help out there. Pretty encouraging. He may hit .240-.250 when things level out and beat the projection systems (.216-.229). A .240/.280/.400 LeBlanc is pretty solid for a backup 2B/3B/1B type, and he has a crazy RHP (.899 OPS) vs LHP (.534 OPS) split right now so that makes him real interesting if that spikes for him. No one on this team can hit lefties. He's playing his way onto the winter 40 man as he has *options* so good for him. It would be really nice to have Williams/LeBlanc/Groshans as the 6-7-8 2B/SS/3B types all optionable next year, presumably after Jazz, Wendle/Rojas, Anderson, Berti, and optimistically a starting SS upgrade. Would be a good depth chart.
August 31, 20223 yr Speaking of Groshans... .342/.421/.907 slash line since Marlins acquired him. I hope he gets a call up here in the next couple of days just to get an idea of how he handles the big leagues, if only to give him a taste of it and to help accelerate his maturing process to the big leagues.
August 31, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Das Texan said: Speaking of Groshans... .342/.421/.907 slash line since Marlins acquired him. I hope he gets a call up here in the next couple of days just to get an idea of how he handles the big leagues, if only to give him a taste of it and to help accelerate his maturing process to the big leagues. What an absolute steal that would be
August 31, 20223 yr 29 minutes ago, Entendu said: What an absolute steal that would be surely our fabulous hitting coaches will get him to fit right in
August 31, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, Das Texan said: Speaking of Groshans... .342/.421/.907 slash line since Marlins acquired him. I hope he gets a call up here in the next couple of days just to get an idea of how he handles the big leagues, if only to give him a taste of it and to help accelerate his maturing process to the big leagues. Unacceptable. Too high, we need to get him up here so he can learn how to underperform like a true Marlin lol
August 31, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, Das Texan said: Speaking of Groshans... .342/.421/.907 slash line since Marlins acquired him. I hope he gets a call up here in the next couple of days just to get an idea of how he handles the big leagues, if only to give him a taste of it and to help accelerate his maturing process to the big leagues. Good thing they called up Kim and offered him!
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