Just now, SongInTheAir said:

this is a good trade.

I don't mind it at all

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

 

This also lets them move on from Wendle/Rojas right now. So I assume one of them gets traded quickly.

that's what I was thinking too.  sure sounds like a worthwhile trade.  they can thank Bass for the fantastic season that led to this

Ng: "ok, phew got that trade done now let me respond to this offer for Soto that should be good to go"

4 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Ng: "ok, phew got that trade done now let me respond to this offer for Soto that should be good to go"

Holy shit lmaooooo 

Gonna need to know who PTBNL is before I sign off on this trade.

2 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

Gonna need to know who PTBNL is before I sign off on this trade.

It's me.

Just now, Michael said:

It's me.

So you are saying that the Marlins are trading you to the Blue Jays? This move just keeps getting better and better!

1 minute ago, FishFan95 said:

So you are saying that the Marlins are trading you to the Blue Jays? This move just keeps getting better and better!

Yeah it's about time.

5 minutes ago, FishFan95 said:

So you are saying that the Marlins are trading you to the Blue Jays? This move just keeps getting better and better!

Larry was traded once too and was never heard from again = (

Good point.

 

anyone know how fast he is out of curiosity? i'd love to add a good hit tool/speed guy to the mix finally. i literally couldn't care less about power at this point.  just need guys who can get on base and steal a bag.

11 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Good point.

 

Haven't they always (pretended anyway) that they go after people with hit tools?

Zach Pop grew up a Jays fan. Call me a softie but I like those stories. 

17 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Haven't they always (pretended anyway) that they go after people with hit tools?

probably just tools in general so they can afford to skimp on contractors to fix things around the park

Not going to lie, this team needs relief pitching every offseason. They have Bass who is performing well, and can be dependable. Why the hell trade him now.

I'm happy they went after a prospect who isn't their prototypical "RAW ATHLETE" mold, but god damn can this fucking team do anything with actual foresight about the next season.

You mean to tell me they couldn't get another prospect included. Not even a fucking soda machine so the team doesn't have to pay for soda this season.

 

 

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

Zach Pop grew up a Jays fan. Call me a softie but I like those stories. 

That is a nice story....

25 minutes ago, Piazza31 said:

Not going to lie, this team needs relief pitching every offseason. They have Bass who is performing well, and can be dependable. Why the hell trade him now.

I'm happy they went after a prospect who isn't their prototypical "RAW ATHLETE" mold, but god damn can this fucking team do anything with actual foresight about the next season.

You mean to tell me they couldn't get another prospect included. Not even a fucking soda machine so the team doesn't have to pay for soda this season.

 

 

Bass was a sell high guy.  we all wanted to kill him last season - then he was good this season.  with a few exceptions bp arms are a fickle thing. Glad he's gone.  Now get some better arms again this coming offseason or play guys like Holloway in the pen for christsakes.  Also, having a real manager will help even things out a bit in the pen.

12 hours ago, Piazza31 said:

Not going to lie, this team needs relief pitching every offseason. They have Bass who is performing well, and can be dependable. Why the hell trade him now.

I'm happy they went after a prospect who isn't their prototypical "RAW ATHLETE" mold, but god damn can this fucking team do anything with actual foresight about the next season.

You mean to tell me they couldn't get another prospect included. Not even a fucking soda machine so the team doesn't have to pay for soda this season.

 

 

What? Bass was an obvious sell high if they could do it and they got a great prospect for him. The chances of him repeating right now are low. I like Pop and thought he'd have a future here, but they can also replace him for a bet on a good prospect bat.

The bullpen right now next year is probably....

Floro, Bender, Poteet, ______/Sulser
Scott, Bleier, Rogers/Garrett (other in rotation after Luzardo and Cabrera), Okert

40 man - Sixto, Neidert, Soriano, Nardi, Reynolds, Simpson

This is pretty solid in an unspectacular way, but the lefty SP trickle down and a healthy Sixto and Bender could change this pretty quickly. Maybe I'm wrong and Cabrera can't stay healthy and he moves here and it's all 3 lefties in the rotation. Who knows. 

I think they'll end up trading 1-2 of the infielders for relievers in the offseason at this point and we'll have 1-2 more names for this group. Given Eury and Eder are also coming which will reshuffle roles too, this is fine. Especially if they pull an Anderson/Richards/Thompson/Bender out of nowhere again. 

2 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

What? Bass was an obvious sell high if they could do it and they got a great prospect for him. The chances of him repeating right now are low. I like Pop and thought he'd have a future here, but they can also replace him for a bet on a good prospect bat.

The bullpen right now next year is probably....

Floro, Bender, Poteet, ______/Sulser
Scott, Bleier, Rogers/Garrett (other in rotation after Luzardo and Cabrera), Okert

40 man - Sixto, Neidert, Soriano, Nardi, Reynolds, Simpson

This is pretty solid in an unspectacular way, but the lefty SP trickle down and a healthy Sixto and Bender could change this pretty quickly. Maybe I'm wrong and Cabrera can't stay healthy and he moves here and it's all 3 lefties in the rotation. Who knows. 

I think they'll end up trading 1-2 of the infielders for relievers in the offseason at this point and we'll have 1-2 more names for this group. Given Eury and Eder are also coming which will reshuffle roles too, this is fine. Especially if they pull an Anderson/Richards/Thompson/Bender out of nowhere again. 

The pen is simultaneously the easiest and hardest thing to fix. Easiest because it's usually the cheapest piece to upgrade to at least league average because you can take flyers on some guys who had down years or throw in some guys who were starters with only a couple pitches who can now go max effort for only an inning. It's also the hardest because bullpen arms are incredibly fickle and save for a few reliable arms - often fluctuate from year to year - see: Bass, Anthony.

8 minutes ago, hovertical said:

The pen is simultaneously the easiest and hardest thing to fix. Easiest because it's usually the cheapest piece to upgrade to at least league average because you can take flyers on some guys who had down years or throw in some guys who were starters with only a couple pitches who can now go max effort for only an inning. It's also the hardest because bullpen arms are incredibly fickle and save for a few reliable arms - often fluctuate from year to year - see: Bass, Anthony.

We agree on Bass and bullpen strategy generally. It's ultimately a numbers game.

For the passer's by, I'm assuming Marlins carry 21 pitchers on the 40 man roster (Meyer is IL designation)

SP that must be protected - Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Rogers, Garrett (6)
Back end SP/bulk relievers - Sixto (health permitting), Poteet, Neidert (Hernandez goes here too but I suspect they move on) (3)
Non 40-man SP options - Eury and Eder if they rise fast (0)

So practically speaking, I think we all agree these 11 guys throw 100% of starts next year? Anyone? So, they don't need any SP. e.g. this is why Pablo is important and to not give away like the Reds did with Mahle which is stupid.

So if they can carry 21 pitchers.... that's 12 more RP only options for next year. Bender, Bleier, Scott, Okert, Soriano (40 man add), and Nardi (40 man add) are locks. So that's 6 more relievers to go, and only guy left that is "for sure" is Floro if they believe he's worth the $3.25-3.5m arbitration tender coming. He's a cost analysis for sure. Basically what I am saying here is - they have 5+ 40 man spots to add 5 more relievers. Of course, some of that may go to the Yacabonis/Holloway/Simpson/Reynolds/Palacois/King level prospect group if they believe they have talent (FWIW, Fangraphs things Simpson and Reynolds are locks).

Frankly, this is a really good 21 pitcher pool PLUS EURY AND EDER for next year. Ill assume Floro is kept and FG is right on Nardi/Soriano/Simpson/Reynolds being protection locks.

SP - Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Rogers, Cabrera, Garrett (Eury/Eder)
SP/RP - Sixto, Poteet, Neidert
RHP - Floro, Bender, ____, G. Soriano, S. Reynolds, _____,
LHP - Scott, Bleier, Okert, Nardi, J. Simpson, _____

They probably trade one of Cooper/Berti/Rojas/Anderson for a RP (first blank line and opening day option with options), and then we're talking the 39th and 40th guys on the 40 man with the other two, so whether that is Holloway or a Rule V pick or they protect Zach King, who cares. Once you get past pitcher 20 in the organization, it's probably not going to be pretty.

Ignoring the 2-3 massive bat upgrades, this is a great organizational depth chart. Especially when Meyer, Fulton, and maybe McCambley then get added for 2024.

7 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

SP that must be protected - Sandy, Pablo, Luzardo, Cabrera, Rogers, Garrett (6)

They probably trade one of Cooper/Berti/Rojas/Anderson for a RP (first blank line and opening day option with options), and then we're talking the 39th and 40th guys on the 40 man with the other two, so whether that is Holloway or a Rule V pick or they protect Zach King, who cares. Once you get past pitcher 20 in the organization, it's probably not going to be pretty.

I'm 90% certain Don will not be returning next year, whether he outright resigns (as it looks like he's leaning that way) at the seasons end or Ng fires him.  When he goes, I'd like to see Rojas go as well as he's been one of his best buddies. That would certainly signify a change of clubhouse culture too and push them in a new direction with a new leader (whoever that may be) and frankly, that DESPERATELY needs to happen.

I love how much better Jesus Lizard and Brax look this year.  Kudos to Mel if that's who got them over the hump. They have suddenly some very nasty stuff and it's a delight to see. 

1 minute ago, hovertical said:

Jesus Lizard

I am so proud of myself for making this a thing before @Das Texan thought of it.

1 minute ago, SonOfJack said:

I am so proud of myself for making this a thing before @Das Texan thought of it.

we're all proud of you Supersize B

11 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I'm 90% certain Don will not be returning next year, whether he outright resigns (as it looks like he's leaning that way) at the seasons end or Ng fires him.  When he goes, I'd like to see Rojas go as well as he's been one of his best buddies. That would certainly signify a change of clubhouse culture too and push them in a new direction with a new leader (whoever that may be) and frankly, that DESPERATELY needs to happen.

I love how much better Jesus Lizard and Brax look this year.  Kudos to Mel if that's who got them over the hump. They have suddenly some very nasty stuff and it's a delight to see. 

I'll take the over on 90% he's gone.

Rojas can certainly go. Dream scenario is they go to $90-92m and can sneak in Correa (the LEADER) into that budget to "replace him" (they can do that by basically replacing Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, Hernandez, Bleier, and Berti.... with Lewin, Williams, "Correa", and three club controlled TBD relievers and club controlled backup IF/Groshans. Those relievers can be the returns for Anderson/Rojas/Berti/Cooper practically speaking). Team makes a lot of sense then once you trade Salas and friends for the CF..... Fortes/Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Correa, CC SS/Groshans, Wendle, Williams/Groshans, Bleday, New trade CF FV50 or better, Sanchez, Garcia, Soler, and the full SP squad with top of bullpen Bender/Scott/Okert/Poteet/Neidert/Sixto/many RP flyers . I like this team if they can figure out the bullpen... and you'd hope all of Cooper/Anderson/Rojas/Berti in this scenario went for right now optionable RP.

This is a big culture change with a new manager. It's handing Sandy, Correa, Jazz, and Pablo the keys and telling them go win some fucking games with the kids and the warm husks of Garcia and Soler. Like if Bruce can't spend this with Sandy/Pablo/SP crew, he's really garbage. He can "Jayson Werth" signing someone like Correa and run a bottom 23-25 payroll.

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

I'll take the over on 90% he's gone.

Rojas can certainly go. Dream scenario is they go to $90-92m and can sneak in Correa (the LEADER) into that budget to "replace him" (they can do that by basically replacing Cooper, Anderson, Rojas, Floro, Hernandez, Bleier, and Berti.... with Lewin, Williams, "Correa", and three club controlled TBD relievers and club controlled backup IF/Groshans. Those relievers can be the returns for Anderson/Rojas/Berti/Cooper practically speaking). Team makes a lot of sense then once you trade Salas and friends for the CF..... Fortes/Stallings, Lewin, Jazz, Correa, CC SS/Groshans, Wendle, Williams/Groshans, Bleday, New trade CF FV50 or better, Sanchez, Garcia, Soler, and the full SP squad with top of bullpen Bender/Scott/Okert/Poteet/Neidert/Sixto/many RP flyers . I like this team if they can figure out the bullpen... and you'd hope all of Cooper/Anderson/Rojas/Berti in this scenario went for right now optionable RP.

This is a big culture change with a new manager. It's handing Sandy, Correa, Jazz, and Pablo the keys and telling them go win some fucking games with the kids and the warm husks of Garcia and Soler. Like if Bruce can't spend this with Sandy/Pablo/SP crew, he's really garbage. He can "Jayson Werth" signing someone like Correa and run a bottom 23-25 payroll.

in theory, even though I've always thought he kinda sucked, Avi shouldn't be THIS bad again at least.