3 hours ago, Entendu said:

I don't even think they have a coherent plan right now.

Establishing whatever the plan is should be step 1 of the offseason. 

Just now, SilverBullet said:

Establishing whatever the plan is should be step 1 of the offseason. 

The plan will be to give it another season with the current roster due to all the "bad luck". I mean, this is the first time Avisail didn't hit 30+ homers.

With Jeter and Denbo both now gone this will be the first offseason with Kim Ng fully in charge from the first minute after the current season ends. Now we can see what she can really do. 

2 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

With Jeter and Denbo both now gone this will be the first offseason with Kim Ng fully in charge from the first minute after the current season ends. Now we can see what she can really do. 

Lots of faith in a passive novice like Ng.

4 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

With Jeter and Denbo both now gone this will be the first offseason with Kim Ng fully in charge from the first minute after the current season ends. Now we can see what she can really do. 

Hopefully someone calls her to let her know the season ended

9 hours ago, Entendu said:

I don't even think they have a coherent plan right now.

Step 1 - Don't spend

Step 2 - Get the free money

Step 3 - Just keep doing this until MLB opens an investigation

2 hours ago, hovertical said:

Hopefully someone calls her to let her know the season ended

Sherman cancelled the phone service to save money.

On 9/1/2022 at 8:48 AM, MarlinsLou said:

I'm not sure if it's talking you down, but this is over the top and some frustration in this seasons/years of crap boiling over. They are still *extremely* hurt right now so even though that alone likely doesn't make them a contender, they'd be much better with Jazz, Garrett, Meyer, Bender, Poteet, and you imagine Garcia and Soler would do something even if not worth the deals. That is a lot of production not happening. Maybe things would be viewed better if they were only 5-10 under instead.

So...

The minor league prospects have been exposed as chumps (no wonder why they didn't want to call them up).

Cabrera, Luzardo, and Garrett all look great. Fortes is doing well even if recently production decreased a bit. He's a nice story to likely get a longterm backup at least. Bleday doesn't look like a lost cause even if he won't hit his draft pedigree. He is walking and he should be fine as a low end regular or platoon bat vs RHP. LeBlanc is holding his own. Williams looks fine as a depth infielder..... so Lewin, Burdick, and Jerar are bad? All are more fringe prospects and the later two have options and won't be on the 26 man next year when everyone is healthy. This isn't so bad, and if Bleday starts hitting .230 will look pretty good.

 

Where are the next line of sure fire prospects to reinforce the major league team?  Five years away?  Ten?

Eury Perez is a floor top 5 pitching prospect in baseball and should be MLB ready next year. Eder likely creeps into the top 100 if he is healthy and velocity returns so he could show up next year. Can't count out Sixto getting healthy eventually and getting in the bullpen. Then there is Groshans who could take over 3B midseason next year. Unfortunately it's probably just these arms and Groshans next year, but in 2024 we add Meyer, Bender, and Poteet (injuries) and presumably Berry. This is where if all the arms are healthy you definitely have a few to trade. The farm isn't as bad as people think it is (especially when considering the years of control of other guys at MLB level), but a lot of the dudes are more 2025/2026 players which is fair.

 

Sherman doesn't seem interested in getting rid of a terrible GM and Manager.

Most disagree, but the book isn't written for Kim yet at all, but they absolutely need a new manager. We'll see what they do but change comes after years like this and Don is the most obvious candidate.

 

Terrible GM and Manager are not going to build a team through free agency that makes any sense.  Avasail Garcia - one of the worst fee agent signings in team history.

Bruce has gotta give the FO a real budget for sure. They could probably be extremely good at $110m, which would be 23rd in baseball so still extremely low. That's $30+m over this year. Ng would absolutely put something good on paper for this amount. Frankly, anyone really would with what they have already.

Hovertical said it right above (I'd quib on an innings eater though. They don't need one if they keep all 6 SP and they don't even need to go middle of the road ($150m) they could do something great around $110m) - Ol' Sherman could turn this team into a contender next season if he'd actually invest in the team.  Sign a couple big bats, a vet innings eater and a good bp arm.....done.  they are playoff contenders for a middle of the road payroll in MLB. 

Yes. That is right.

 

Basically, they are having to start over.  Again.

Way way over the top. 

C - Fortes/Stallings should be a solid duo, and there is hope in the system with Henry/Mack/Hernandez. Nothing to do here for at least a year. 2+ war next year.

2B - Set for 4 years. 4+ war next year.

3B/IF backups - I'm expecting them to keep Anderson, Berti, one of Wendle/Rojas, and all of Groshans, Williams, and LeBlanc. This is a very good depth chart and would be GREAT with a real longterm SS. This is probably 1500+ PA and probably 5+ WAR next year 

LF - Bleday/Sanchez/Burdick deserve a year here, especially Bleday.
RF/DH - Nothing to do with Garcia/Soler for a year as they have to play them, and Berry likely takes Soler's spot
I like to think these 3 starting spots produce 3+ WAR next year, and there is much upside here if guys play to their potential

SP - They have 6 of them and 3-4 prospects coming, set for 5+ years beyond maybe needing an innings eater if they trade Pablo. You can easily see 15-17+ WAR here and it might be more. To note, a top 10 pitching staff in baseball averages 18 WAR last 5 years or so. That's staff, not starters only.

RP - They need a high end RHP for sure, but they have plenty of inventory arms and for the first time in years, a nice pipeline of lefties. As-is, this is likely at best a 2+ WAR group.

This only costs like $70m bucks. They need about 8-10 WAR added in the form of a 1B, SS, CF, and at least one high end RP.

Goes back to the money. If Bruce says $110m, you're talking Nimmo/Swanson (both are top 25 bats in baseball this year) + E. Diaz (2.5+ WAR RP) very quickly, trading guys years away (Salas, Fulton, Lewis) in a package for someone club controlled (likely a Diamondbacks CF sort of thing which they have a TON of), and then likely doing a smaller trade for the 4th of these, presumably a Cooper upgrade. Moving Cooper, Rojas/Wendle, Floro, etc. for younger relievers to round it out. You can get to the needed production with this.

Absent that budget, it's probably still the big prospect trade, minor trade for Cooper upgrade, and other guys for inventory relievers (all of these guys being club controlled), and then thinking about moving one of the SP (maybe Pablo as most expensive), signing a separate SP to replace, and maybe Bruce would let them sign E. Diaz (cheaper than Swanson/Nimmo and would be a little more than Garcia) and that maybe rounds it out. This gets more complicated but it's do able for probably $90m if they are really really smart/aggressive about it. The farm will definitely take a hit but at what point do you try to win and not perpetually rebuild? I say plant the flag as you're running a business and be like the Heat - make moves to win and build a culture.

 

How long will it take for this team to even have a hope of being competitive?  Honestly I don't see it happening unless they LUCK into some players who outperform their expectations.  Not to mention, they are in a division full of teams who are competent and willing to compete.

If the idea is all internal, it's probably 2024 or 2025 for when every SP is healthy and Berry/Salas/Cappe/Mack/etc. become contributors. If they make some real moves, it can be 2023 for sure. Think of this like the Florida Panthers - they made 3-4 key moves (Bennet, Reinhart, Marchment, calling up Lundell and Knight) and got good real quick. Effectively, this is a 1B, SS, CF, and RHP RP (and Eury looming). I'm not sure luck is needed, just legitimate veterans and a high end longterm kind of guy.(call this a mini Yelich type of trade). The "luck" is all the SP staying healthy so 3+ of them are not injured at the same time (which has happened this year for periods). They will go as far as the SP will take them if they can add that other 8+ WAR IMO. Might not be the world series, but it's over .500.

And yes the division is brutal with the Braves especially, but pitching always wins. And they have the young pitching. They just have to start figuring out how to win 3-2 and 4-3 games. They have one of the worst 1 run records in baseball which is partially luck, but is partially the bullpen is a mess and they can't hit at all. Hence, maybe Edwin Diaz is the smartest FA as he is cheaper than the longterm bats and they can trade for some hitters. Them plus Jazz is likely a big upgrade from the current day to day.

 

The friggin Washington Nationals will probably be competitive again before this team is.

Let's not get crazy but if they spend $150m in a year, yes they will be as this fixes all the holes. Money solves all.

 

 foresee another lost decade of Marlins baseball with no playoff appearances and maybe a fluke winning season or two.

They have a massive SP pipeline right now so that should keep them competitive. Eventually they should stumble into bats. This is over the top. However, if Bruce keeps spending $80m, you can see this team perpetually flirting .500 when fully healthy with a peak year or two making the playoffs and likely exiting quickly absent a real SP hot streak.

 

Basically, it's pretty bad right now today in September, but they have 21+ solid guys with upside ready to go next year for April and extremely cheap $70m-ish. They have some prospects to burn in trades for sure.

What's Bruce going to do with payroll? I maintain he is still 80-90% of the problem even if Kim certainly had two extremely big misfires (No CF, keeping Aguilar when signed Soler). Bruce gives them $110, and shit even $95-100m, it's probably a team that has a real fighting chance. Or at minimum, gets to July in a position to add.

I think it's fair to expect them to be cheap and do nothing based on past behavior, but that's where I say - this is how we know they are really that bad of an ownership group. As plop this team anywhere else, they are doubling payroll to help that pitching which is borderline a top 10 unit WITH upside for more. And the 6 SP cost $15m COMBINED. They have everything they need to succeed in front of them if they aren't cheap about this. Just spend like Milwaukee and it'll be better. Or don't, and we can all stop being fans really forever as it'll never happen if they don't do it next year with Sandy, Jazz, and the SP. Not sure if this is talking down, but that's how I view things.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not going to read all that.

Congrats...or sorry that happened.

KTHXBye/

18 hours ago, hovertical said:

The plan will be to give it another season with the current roster due to all the "bad luck". I mean, this is the first time Avisail didn't hit 30+ homers.

No, the plan is to recreate the 2003 Marlins in the aggregate. Problem is this year was Juan Pierres year. Next year we'll recreate Luis Castillo.

They are looking at the big picture. We are going to have an All Decade team to rival the Pirates!

18 hours ago, SilverBullet said:

With Jeter and Denbo both now gone this will be the first offseason with Kim Ng fully in charge from the first minute after the current season ends. Now we can see what she can really do. 

I've had hope before, Jeter leaving was the step in the right direction. When he left kinda left the team scrambling for credibility in the FA market. I'm hoping they settled for Soler and Garcia but wanted others.

 

Then again... the team had the first half of the season to find direction. NO moves at the trade deadline shows me they have no idea which way to go. All in or continue the rebuild. Were just...afloat at sea on a wooden door.

On 9/3/2022 at 5:25 PM, SilverBullet said:

With Jeter and Denbo both now gone this will be the first offseason with Kim Ng fully in charge from the first minute after the current season ends. Now we can see what she can really do. 

I meant this is a subtle joke but it was poorly worded. But there is truth to the front office being shaken up this year. Kim needs to bring in or promote a replacement for Denbo and then decide on the complete structure/hierarchy of the front office and then establish the plan and then step forward from there. Its like Kim has been driving a car with the seats and mirrors adjusted for Jeter and now she has to make those adjustments so that she can actually drive now. 

57 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Its like Kim has been driving a car with the seats and mirrors adjusted for Jeter and now she has to make those adjustments so that she can actually drive now. 

Time to reset her clock again

Don't call them “Miami ” Marlins, this team just made this city feel embarrassed now. 

4 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Don't call them “Miami ” Marlins, this team just made this city feel embarrassed now. 

The city forgets the team even exists most the time. Can't embarrass the city whatsoever.

7 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Time to reset her clock again

Hey don't rush it.

3 hours ago, r5812 said:

Hey don't rush it.

Gotta at least wait until Jeters bad Avisail signing comes off before rushing to judgment 

9 hours ago, Michael said:

The city forgets the team even exists most the time. Can't embarrass the city whatsoever.

And this team keeps forcing people in the Miami to ignore them in the past five years. 

11 hours ago, r5812 said:

Hey don't rush it.

Can always just reset it again!  There is no limit. 

3 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Can always just reset it again!  There is no limit. 

Brindog 2 dongs yesterday 😂 

6 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

Can always just reset it again!  There is no limit. 

Just gotta make sure to hold the reset button in while pushing the power button off

21 hours ago, pollythewog said:

Brindog 2 dongs yesterday 😂 

Does this surprise you? I put the odds of him getting good at 50%. This team is cursed

23 hours ago, hovertical said:

Just gotta make sure to hold the reset button in while pushing the power button off

Take out the cartridge and blow in it.  And then blow some more, just for your own enjoyment.

We're two SP away........

 

 

WHat year is it?

I mean Avisail Garcia and Jorge Soler will both be off the books in 5 years so there is that....