4 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

It would’ve been nice to sign Abreu but it isn’t the end of the world or that big of a deal. 

We need big bats, they're not to sign the 10/300 guys, Abreu is the biggest bat they could sign in this off-season and they don't, to me it's really a big deal. 

This team wants Abreu but what's the offers ? with the 3/60 in hand we just have no any chance to sign him, that 2/40 offers from us is just a FAKE offers.

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by TaiwanAstros

I'd like to have seen them offered something stupid like 3/70 with the bulk of the money paid in the first two years making him tradeable in year 3 if he was still hitting. Loria was notorious for doing the crazy backlogged deals too though because he knew he'd be trading the player before then. Still, pay more now while payroll is small and then you can trade them for a prospect a LOT easier at the end of the deal. The paying more now and less later also helps with the money the younger guys will be getting in arb as the years go on.

2 hours ago, TaiwanAstros said:

We need big bats, they're not to sign the 10/300 guys, Abreu is the biggest bat they could sign in this off-season and they don't, to me it's really a big deal. 

This team wants Abreu but what's the offers ? with the 3/60 in hand we just have no any chance to sign him, that 2/40 offers from us is just a FAKE offers.

It's not a fake offer. It's a comparable offer, same amount of money per year. Could they have overpaid sure but they didn't wanna go for the 3rd year. I guess they didn't think he was a must have, they offered what they thought he was worth.

You're making it sound like they offered him 2/15 or something laughable like that. They did not lowball Abreu. 

Yes sure you can say you wish they doubled up and offered 2/80 or so that's fine but then don't come around saying you'll never forgive them when you've forgiven them for everything else including worse things they've done.

To say that offering Abreu $20 million per year is the last straw for you is a joke.

Just now, SilverBullet said:

To say that offering Abreu $20 million per year is the last straw for you is a joke.

It's simply the last straw for that hour.

There's a new group of straws every hour.

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

I'd like to have seen them offered something stupid like 3/70 with the bulk of the money paid in the first two years making him tradeable in year 3 if he was still hitting. Loria was notorious for doing the crazy backlogged deals too though because he knew he'd be trading the player before then. Still, pay more now while payroll is small and then you can trade them for a prospect a LOT easier at the end of the deal. The paying more now and less later also helps with the money the younger guys will be getting in arb as the years go on.

This is true. We haven't seen this front office front load or backload any contracts if I'm not mistaken. And that would actually be a creative way of getting people to sign here without just stupidly overpaying. "We can offer you the same money but you'll get it all sooner" would be a smarter sales pitch for the Marlins. 

1 minute ago, Michael said:

It's simply the last straw for that hour.

There's a new group of straws every hour.

3 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

To say that offering Abreu $20 million per year is the last straw for you is a joke.

While I do think they should have added the 3rd year to get it done and "get their guy", I won't shit on them for it. Plenty of other things to shit on them for.

32 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

While I do think they should have added the 3rd year to get it done and "get their guy", I won't shit on them for it. Plenty of other things to shit on them for.

Adding the 3rd year makes it equal to Houston's offer, he may have still chosen them. I don't think he was "their guy." 

They absolutely could have overpaid to get him though, that's a fair complaint. 

Just think how much better this off-season would be if we had gotten Abreu. Assuming they also acquired Segura. We just need that one big bat from the trade market and the team is exciting.

10 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Adding the 3rd year makes it equal to Houston's offer, he may have still chosen them. I don't think he was "their guy." 

They absolutely could have overpaid to get him though, that's a fair complaint. 

It would've slightly beat Houston's offer if the reported numbers are accurate.  They gave 3/58.5, we offered 2/40 and I think should've offered 3/60 to really try to get it done.

Maybe he chooses the Astros anyway true, but 2/40 wasn't close to enough.

I called him "their guy" since he was their first target of the off-season and also their biggest offer. Sure seems like he was the plan for a big bat.

3 minutes ago, Entendu said:

Just think how much better this off-season would be if we had gotten Abreu.

Because we won't sign those 10/300 guys so the signing of Abreu would just be the biggest FA acquisition of this off-season, just imagine how much better the atmosphere to this off-season would be if we got our biggest FA hitter early in the off-season. 

Thing is, we should be focusing on getting more proven lefty hitters. The ballpark seems like it plays fairly well for pull-side lefties. Right handed batters ... unless they bring in the fences in left center, seems like the balls just die out that way.

 

I could be wrong, of course.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

 

 

I could be wrong, of course.

You're a moderator. You're never wrong.

24 minutes ago, Entendu said:

Just think how much better this off-season would be if we had gotten Abreu. Assuming they also acquired Segura. We just need that one big bat from the trade market and the team is exciting.

Yes 2 free agent bats and one via trade would have been a great route to helping the lineup. It's great to have gotten Segura and I'll assume they get a bat eventually via trade so now my concern is where the hell does the third bat come from because they desperately need it. 

4 minutes ago, hovertical said:

You're a moderator. You're never wrong.

No politics 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

You're making it sound like they offered him 2/15 or something laughable like that. They did not lowball Abreu. Yes sure you can say you wish they doubled up and offered 2/80 or so

I didn't say they offered him 2/15, but let's be honest, compare to the 3/60 then the 2/40 was just as useless as 2/15. Reported Abreu was intrigued to play in the Florida so it's possible he would chooses us if we match or close to 3/60.

24 minutes ago, hovertical said:

You're a moderator. You're never wrong.

And if he is ever wrong, he can just edit it and make it look like he was not wrong. So much power.

3 minutes ago, TaiwanAstros said:

I didn't say they offered him 2/15, but let's be honest, compare to the 3/60 then the 2/40 was just as useless as 2/15. Reported Abreu was intrigued to play in the Florida so it's possible he would chooses us if we match or close to 3/60.

It's still a comparable deal. He'll be 36 at the end of the month, I'm not mad at them saying "hey we'd rather do two years instead of three" because, again, 36 years old. How long can he keep this up? With Houston and the way they can get the best out of everyone, he'll probably be good all three years of that deal, but we do have a similar case with Yuli Gurriel there who is now a free agent - he just dropped off the table in 2022 [although he turned it back on in the playoffs] at age 38.

We'll see what happens. 2/40 for a guy who is already 36 is fine and going 3/60 would have been too much, for us. For Houston, fine, hitter friendly park and they really know what they're doing. We seem to have no clue what to do with hitters right now. lol

2 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

And if he is ever wrong, he can just edit it and make it look like he was not wrong. So much power.

I only edit for typos.

And when I want to make a very quick addition that I thought of right after hitting post. It's happening right now.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

I only edit for typos.

And when I want to make a very quick addition that I thought of right after hitting post. It's happening right now.

Now I wonder what the very quick addition was to this post.

4 minutes ago, Michael said:

It's still a comparable deal. He'll be 36 at the end of the month, I'm not mad at them saying "hey we'd rather do two years instead of three" because, again, 36 years old. How long can he keep this up? With Houston and the way they can get the best out of everyone, he'll probably be good all three years of that deal, but we do have a similar case with Yuli Gurriel there who is now a free agent - he just dropped off the table in 2022 [although he turned it back on in the playoffs] at age 38.

We'll see what happens. 2/40 for a guy who is already 36 is fine and going 3/60 would have been too much, for us. For Houston, fine, hitter friendly park and they really know what they're doing. We seem to have no clue what to do with hitters right now. lol

I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered. 

Don't tell me this team didn't need a bat like Abreu, they need him now badly so why not just give him what he wants and have him in the lineup everyday ? not to worry how he does at age 38 and just enjoy what he can do at age 36 and 37. It's so ironic that a Houston team that not necessary to have Abreu but go all in (or you say overpaying) to acquire him and a Miami team that need him badly not willing to go all in to have his service. 

4 minutes ago, TaiwanAstros said:

I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered. 

Don't tell me this team didn't need a bat like Abreu, they need him now badly so why not just give him what he wants and have him in the lineup everyday ? not to worry how he does at age 38 and just enjoy what he can do at age 36 and 37. It's so ironic that a Houston team that not necessary to have Abreu but go all in (or you say overpaying) to acquire him and a Miami team that need him badly not willing to go all in to have his service. 

Giving 2/60 to Abreu would have been a stupid and irresponsible thing to do. I like Abreu but he isn't the player you go "all in" for. 

3 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Giving 2/60 to Abreu would have been a stupid thing to do. I like Abreu but he isn't the player you go "all in" for. 

What I mean was you need to match the total amount to be a comparable offer, of course you wouldn't stupid enough to offer 60 for two years and not for three years. 

4 hours ago, hovertical said:

I'd like to have seen them offered something stupid like 3/70 with the bulk of the money paid in the first two years making him tradeable in year 3 if he was still hitting. Loria was notorious for doing the crazy backlogged deals too though because he knew he'd be trading the player before then. Still, pay more now while payroll is small and then you can trade them for a prospect a LOT easier at the end of the deal. The paying more now and less later also helps with the money the younger guys will be getting in arb as the years go on.

Yeah, they could've/should've done the last couple of years would've been to sign a few guys to bigger/long term contracts and front loaded them while in later rebuilding years, so when the younger guys arrive, it balances out.But....of course, there's also the don't sign anyone and save money that way approach we've taken lol.

 

19 minutes ago, TaiwanAstros said:

I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered. 

Don't tell me this team didn't need a bat like Abreu, they need him now badly so why not just give him what he wants and have him in the lineup everyday ? not to worry how he does at age 38 and just enjoy what he can do at age 36 and 37. It's so ironic that a Houston team that not necessary to have Abreu but go all in (or you say overpaying) to acquire him and a Miami team that need him badly not willing to go all in to have his service. 

That'd be ridiculous.

He signed with someone else.  Let's not have a heart attack over the dude.

 

  

8 minutes ago, TaiwanAstros said:

What I mean was you need to match the total amount to be a comparable offer, of course you wouldn't stupid enough to offer 60 for two years and not for three years. 

Those are drastically different offers and you know it.  Stop being ridiculous.

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by rmc523

 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

Yes 2 free agent bats and one via trade would have been a great route to helping the lineup. It's great to have gotten Segura and I'll assume they get a bat eventually via trade so now my concern is where the hell does the third bat come from because they desperately need it. 

Maybe they can install a bat production facility where the Clevelander was....endless supply of bats!