11 minutes ago, mystikol87 said:

@TaiwanAstros is oft ridiculous, but I think some of you missed his point this time. Not offer 2/$60, but rather that the total value needed to be $60+M, likely over 3 years.

He literally said "I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered."

It is hard not to read it as 2/60 being an acceptable offer there if necessary. In reality, 30M a year is a ridiculous suggestion for Abreu under any circumstance. I proposed 3/60 however earlier in the thread.

1 minute ago, SonOfJack said:

He literally said "I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered."

It is hard not to read it as 2/60 being an acceptable offer there. I proposed 3/60 however earlier in the thread.

if they had signed him for 2/60 i wouldn't have whined about overpayment that's for sure. i would have been very happy and surprised they spent some serious money on bringing in a guy they clearly wanted while not crippling the team financially later on down the road with a smart 2 year deal.  That's just the cost of doing business with teams like the Mutts, Doyers, etc out there.  Not like that would have catapulted the marlins into the top half of payroll either.  Gotta outbid the big boys even on short term deals.  Can't expect a player to go to Miami when an offer is the same for a contender elsewhere but so far it seems to be something Ng and Sherman either don't understand or refuse to budge on on principle. Of course it also allows them to say they submitted the same offer and just can't help it the player chose elsewhere.

 

When you have a cheap AF owner, the worst idea is to have them add incredibly ridiculous contracts to the payroll. It is hard enough to get Bruce to spend now. Imagine with a 30M albatross on the payroll.  20M for Abreu a year is an overpay as it is but it is the cost of doing business nowadays. 30M a year for Abreu would just be irresponsible. 

And how the fuck am I disagreeing with my future self on something? How does that happen?

I'm with Taiwan on this one.... 2/40 was never going to get it done. For someone of Abreu's age, the dollar value is what matters. This is likely his last payday. I think that's what he meant.

And to echo Taiwan again, 2/40 is as good as offering 1/5. At least go 2/50 and make him think about it.

3 minutes ago, Entendu said:

I'm with Taiwan on this one.... 2/40 was never going to get it done. For someone of Abreu's age, the dollar value is what matters. This is likely his last payday. I think that's what he meant.

And to echo Taiwan again, 2/40 is as good as offering 1/5. At least go 2/50 and make him think about it.

He said (paraphrasing) doing 2/60 would be ok if necessary. I disagree but if you want to say that's ok, that's your opinion. But it is what he said. 

2/40 was indeed not going to get it done which is why they should have tried 3/60 and seen what happened.

12 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

And how the fuck am I disagreeing with my future self on something? How does that happen?

in the future so many things are possible.  wait til you see the subwoofer you put in your lambo

Just now, hovertical said:

in the future so many things are possible.  wait til you see the subwoofer you put in your lambo

Knowing me, I probably listened to sports radio and wasted it.

Makes a ton of sense to Marlins, but you know …

We're gonna end up bringing Jesus Aguilar back probably.

1 minute ago, TaiwanAstros said:

Makes a ton of sense to Marlins, but you know …

dude, it's not gonna hurt if they don't get Hosmer lol 

at this point just hope a good trade is made.

42 minutes ago, hovertical said:

dude, it's not gonna hurt if they don't get Hosmer lol 

at this point just hope a good trade is made.

Not sure they want to have a lefty bat to platoon with Coop or not. 

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

We're gonna end up bringing Jesus Aguilar back probably.

May as well bring Lewin back. Lol.

OK, JUST NO IMMINENT DEAL, JUST BE PATIENT …

2 minutes ago, TaiwanAstros said:

OK, JUST NO IMMINENT DEAL, JUST BE PATIENT …

I believe Marlins knowing Abreu has 3/60 offers in hand when they make that 2/40 offer to him and it's something that really confuses me, why you make a no chance offers ? you think he would picking the 2/40 instead of the 3/60 because he wants to play only two more years ? it's really ridiculous, you offering something meaningful or just do nothing. 

They’re talking about how the pirates and Reynolds were $50M apart in negotiations (pirates offered $70M and he wanted $120). I’m assuming that would be in the 5-7 year realm as far as length. Kinda seems a little high when you have Freddie Freeman and Matt Olson getting just a little bit more than that. Olson and freeman are ELITE where as Reynolds is just very good. If it was a free agent signing then sure, it’s just money. But this would be trading their best assets AND THEN hoping to sign him to a deal like that. To me that’s worse and near-sighted. They should have gone hard after Olson last year if they’d have been willing to pay something in that realm.

1 hour ago, marlinsmaniac said:

They’re talking about how the pirates and Reynolds were $50M apart in negotiations (pirates offered $70M and he wanted $120). I’m assuming that would be in the 5-7 year realm as far as length. Kinda seems a little high when you have Freddie Freeman and Matt Olson getting just a little bit more than that. Olson and freeman are ELITE where as Reynolds is just very good. If it was a free agent signing then sure, it’s just money. But this would be trading their best assets AND THEN hoping to sign him to a deal like that. To me that’s worse and near-sighted. They should have gone hard after Olson last year if they’d have been willing to pay something in that realm.

Reynolds can also play CF though so you can't really look just at Freeman and Olsen for comparables. That's a premium position where offensive production, especially at Reynolds level, is much more scarce.

Just now, hovertical said:

Reynolds can also play CF though so you can't really look just at Freeman and Olsen for comparables. That's a premium position where offensive production, especially at Reynolds level, is much more scarce.

I understand but that just proves my point. Center field talent is more scarce therefore more expensive. They’ve been so focused on upgrading offense through center field and having middling first base production instead of just upgrading another position to an elite level and then having a defense first center fielder. I would rather have Olson/Freeman at first and DLC in center than Reynolds in center and The crap we had at first base last year. Cause make no mistake, copper is passable as a bench/platoon player but he isn’t good at all, and first base is a major weakness of the team (along with catcher, 3B, SS…basically every spot on the team that isn’t 2B and maybe left field/DH)

8 minutes ago, marlinsmaniac said:

I understand but that just proves my point. Center field talent is more scarce therefore more expensive. They’ve been so focused on upgrading offense through center field and having middling first base production instead of just upgrading another position to an elite level and then having a defense first center fielder. I would rather have Olson/Freeman at first and DLC in center than Reynolds in center and The crap we had at first base last year. Cause make no mistake, copper is passable as a bench/platoon player but he isn’t good at all, and first base is a major weakness of the team (along with catcher, 3B, SS…basically every spot on the team that isn’t 2B and maybe left field/DH)

I see that argument too but if you did have an elite production at CF via trade then you could also upgrade maybe even multiple other positions much easier because they're easier to find. If Reynolds did want 7/120 that's an insanely good deal for the Pirates or any team. Heck even 5/120 is pretty good for an elite production CF and they'd be stupid not to give it to him if thats what he wants. 

5/120 sounds fair to me for Reynolds.

23 minutes ago, hovertical said:

I see that argument too but if you did have an elite production at CF via trade then you could also upgrade maybe even multiple other positions much easier because they're easier to find. If Reynolds did want 7/120 that's an insanely good deal for the Pirates or any team. Heck even 5/120 is pretty good for an elite production CF and they'd be stupid not to give it to him if thats what he wants. 

 

5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

5/120 sounds fair to me for Reynolds.

No like I said, he’s worth that money, but he would cost SO MUCH as far as prospect/player capital that it makes him much more costly than just the dollar figures. As I’ve said in the past, this staff is good but it’s not a top 5 rotation either. So when you go subtracting from it to the degree that this particular trade would cost then you end up in the same boat we were in when we had an outfield of three all stars, Dee Gordon hitting .300+ and the second coming of Buster Posey behind the plate but couldn’t win cause of the lack of pitching. 

Edited January 4, 20233 yr by marlinsmaniac

1 minute ago, marlinsmaniac said:

 

No like I said, he’s worth that money, but he would cost SO MUCH as far as prospect/player capital that it makes him much more costly than just the dollar figures. As I’ve said in the past, this staff is good but it’s not a top 5 rotation either. So when you go subtracting from it to the degree that this particular trade would cost then you end up in the same boat we were in when we had an outfield of three all stars, Dee Gordon hitting .300+ and the second coming of Buster Posey behind the plate but couldn’t win cause of the lack of pitching. 

If he flat out refuses to play for the Pirates though their asking price may come down just a tiny bit. Im 99% certain we aren't getting him anyway so all of this is moot. There's no chance that Kim trades Eury and it would take Eury to get Reynolds. This is why we were all pretty ticked she didn't empty the farm last year though when we had numerous top 100 prospects that ultimately ended up being shitty. You just never know with prospects no matter how they're ranked what they'll do at the MLB level. 

2 minutes ago, marlinsmaniac said:

No like I said, he’s worth that money, but he would cost SO MUCH as far as prospect/player capital that it makes him much more costly than just the dollar figures. 

Eh I'm tired of prospect hoarding. It hasn't won us dick, let's try something new. We're not going to sign big free agents, so we have to trade for them. I like Reynolds a lot, and I think he is underrated by some. I know you said he is very good, so I don't mean you.

16 hours ago, mystikol87 said:

@TaiwanAstros is oft ridiculous, but I think some of you missed his point this time. Not offer 2/$60, but rather that the total value needed to be $60+M, likely over 3 years.

 

20 hours ago, TaiwanAstros said:

I think 2/60 (if you insist not go for three years) was much more comparable than 2/40 because the total amount is what really mattered. 

Don't tell me this team didn't need a bat like Abreu, they need him now badly so why not just give him what he wants and have him in the lineup everyday ? not to worry how he does at age 38 and just enjoy what he can do at age 36 and 37. It's so ironic that a Houston team that not necessary to have Abreu but go all in (or you say overpaying) to acquire him and a Miami team that need him badly not willing to go all in to have his service. 

 

16 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

He said (paraphrasing) doing 2/60 would be ok if necessary. I disagree but if you want to say that's ok, that's your opinion. But it is what he said. 

2/40 was indeed not going to get it done which is why they should have tried 3/60 and seen what happened.

 

I get that he was saying overall value needed to be close to 60 for him to sign.

But, if they're not going to 3 years/60 , by default, that means either 1 or 2 years, 60 or 30 AAV.  Both of which are too much for a team like us.

 

If he wanted to be here, maybe 2/40 + 3rd year 15M option with 5M buyout?  So opportunity for 3/60, but 3/45 guaranteed?