Stag5

What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct. and the city and state didnt stab the Marlins in the back after 2003? laughable. Das, in what way? It is not the Marlins god-given right to get $300+MM because they won the World Series. I feel bad...believe me I want a stadium here and if it ends up here with public money I won't shed a tear. I know I will get much use from the building. But what I want and what I think is right are two seperate issues. Samson said today they were $30MM apart at one point. Believe that? If so, why not at that point pick up the $30MM cost and tell fans at seasons end that the team must go with a $40m-$45M payroll for two seasons to make up the costs...but that the team is staying...and that if revenues rose via attendance they could increase payroll the second season? Instead we will now have that payroll and the threat that the team leaves. What Samson said today is filled with so many holes. Again I will say it....nothing has changed...except that the fight was now taken public.

[ What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct. I listened to Dan's show today and someone called in with something I didn't know but so true and it isn't talked about. Did you know that cities and states give away millions of tax dollars to corporations to relocate or stay to there city or state. There millionaires no billionaires why do they need cities and states to give them millions of tax dollars. Do they effect you directly? but again they aren't made public and of course we know why Yes, but these companies create jobs...real jobs. Not part-time peanut vendor jobs. The Marlins have plenty of employees. About 150 I believe work in South Florida. I could be wrong, but I think that's about right. I didn't know Millionaire ballplayers are making peanuts j/k but if you don't understand that having more millionaires in your community doesn't help your economy directly and indirectly, then our quality of life down here would be look like one of those middle of road town in central Florida. That's the difference between a big market and a small market Millionaires do not make economies churn. Consumption purchases are what drive an economy. Higher end luxary items are not typically purchased on a quarterly basis (cars, homes, etc.) but things like food, gas, haircuts, electric, cable, are. A millionaire can only eat so much, drive so much, only has so many hairs to cut and their electric and cable bills is not much different than most people that live in their neighborhood. And if I was wrong I think an area of 5MM people can take the impact of 15-20 millionaires that left the area.

What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct. I listened to Dan's show today and someone called in with something I didn't know but so true and it isn't talked about. Did you know that cities and states give away millions of tax dollars to corporations to relocate or stay to there city or state. There millionaires no billionaires why do they need cities and states to give them millions of tax dollars. Do they effect you directly? but again they aren't made public and of course we know why Yes, but these companies create jobs...real jobs. Not part-time peanut vendor jobs. The Marlins have plenty of employees. About 150 I believe work in South Florida. I could be wrong, but I think that's about right.

What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct. Politics and Government doesn't work that way, and you should know it. Special interest rule the world. The problem is Loria doesn't have enough power down here. Ask yourselve why? - They are building a Performing Arts costing over half a billion dollars (private money? who is going to enjoy that?) - we just built 2 more arenas with Public money. That weren't needed The Goverment will continue to waste with stadium or no stadium. I want some of that waste to go over the team that has made this city proud, I didn't say what was right or wronmg or what happens or not. I am simply saying that what Ed is saying is not off-base. Yes, that is how the game works....and yes if a stadium gets builty we can be sure someone's hand is being greased and it's passed down the line. But it starts with public funding....

What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct. I listened to Dan's show today and someone called in with something I didn't know but so true and it isn't talked about. Did you know that cities and states give away millions of tax dollars to corporations to relocate or stay to there city or state. There millionaires no billionaires why do they need cities and states to give them millions of tax dollars. Do they effect you directly? but again they aren't made public and of course we know why Yes, but these companies create jobs...real jobs. Not part-time peanut vendor jobs.

What is wrong with what Ed is saying? You may not like what he is saying...you may wish that the local and state governments give the money to Loria and not the schools or to ::::gasp::: maybe to the millions of people now taking money out of their own pocket to fix up their homes post-Wilma. You may want the money to go to the stadium...but what Ed is saying is correct.

Miami residents should be ashamed of themselves for allowing a perfectly good baseball team to come this close to slipping away. Though I don't live in Florida, I will be deeply hurt if the Marlins move... unless they move to Michigan. Detroit could use another team. :thumbup We do not have control to allow it or not. Loria owns the team. He has the right to leave is he wants to. What you mean to say is we should be ashamed that even though we have billions in damage from a few hurricanes the past two years and our schools are in the crapper, etc we won't give a multi-millionaire hundreds of millions of dollars to house his millionaires. Btw, if you visit this area anytime soon you will see many businesses that need some roof work among other things.....can they to get free money to the extent you want Loria to?

The Marlins are not any closer to moving than they were a year ago. The Marlins may move in 2008. They may move in 2010. They may not move at all. What Samson said today was nothing new. The team NEVER had restrictions on it to talk to other cities....matter of fact they did, Las Vegas. Also, why would they need permission to speak to cities outside of Miami? They don't play in Miami. I am not saying the team won't leave, I am saying the possibility is not any more or less than it was before we heard the pres conference. Coincidence this is announced the same day(s) that trades are about to occur? I doubt it. Yesterday fans were upset that the stadium would house young, inexpensive players. Today, fans are happy just to have these young, inexpensive players playing here. The expectations were just lowered and I assume they now hope to see two things: 1. Fans will show more support by attending games. 2. The public pushes government officials to get a deal done. What you heard today was the fight for a stadium being taken public. The days of behind the scenes talk are over. Anyone notice that Samson definitely put on the bad-cop hat? Loria is slashing payroll because Samson said he failed at getting a stadium and it was time? Loria made himself into a very wealthy man and is a shrewd businessman. He does not need to be talked into not losing money. As I said, Samson is now the bad cop in this latest strategy of taking the fight public.

Question: 1. This team is one headed up by a genius of a GM that constantly adjusts his team's roster in order to stay competive while playing in a small-market. 2. This team plays in a bad market that does not deserve baseball and is about to gut its roster. Your choices are - A. Marlins B. Athletics Ken Rosenthal article... Upon learning of the Blue Jays' five-year, $50 million offer to free-agent righthander A.J. Burnett, one executive said, "If Billy (Beane) was hesitating on trading (Barry) Zito, I would think this would have him placing billboards saying, 'Former Cy Young winner for sale, lightly used,' outside every team's stadium." Zito, a free agent after next season, is owed a mere $8.25 million in 2006. ... So when the A's deal Mulder, Hudson, Tejada, Giambi, Damon, Foulke, and now maybe Barry Zito Billy Beane is a genius. We trade players and it's a firesale. This is the unfair spin placed on both these teams.

I agree. I feel worse losing Beckett than Delgado. I remember when we drafted Beckett and he had his first radio interview with Joe Rose. Joe asked him what he asks everyone.....so, you looking forward to South Beach? Josh told him he had a girlfriend and Joe just laughed. TSwift..I am not saying it won't be the case. But what do we have to lose to wait and see instead of trusting "they say", "sources say?" And if and when trades occur well...I saw big hits by Hank Blalock. We saw what Heilman can do. Xavier Nady has a real bat. Aaron Rowand or Brandon McCarthy I'd enjoy having as a Marlin. Yea, much of the fun being a fan of a team is seeing the same players year in and year out as much as possible....but this is what it is. I am going to try to stay positive and I know many people on this board stay positive to a fault (remember I wanted AJ traded to anyone b4 the deadline because I felt we were done)....so I hope the majoity stick it out at least until there is something official to be digusted with.

Boy this ball got rolling fast. We knew heading into the off-season that AJ, Encarnacion and Alex were in all likelylihood gone. We knew that Mike Lowell and to a lesser extent Juan Pierre were contracts that Marlins wanted to lose.. We also knew that the combination of a heavily backloaded contract, Delgado's age and the addition of players such as Hermidia, Willingham, Vargas, Olsen, etc. for a full season it was possible the Marlins would look into the possibility of moving Carlos. We knew there was a very good chance that these six players and even someone like Todd Jones would be gone and no one was crying firesale. NO ONE! Now Beckett's name has come up and all of a sudden the media and fans are going wild. After that news we hear the Marlins have been discussing LoDuca and Castillo with teams. In this time we have heard the Marlins payroll will be slashed to $55MM...then $50MM...now $40MM. This latest article says that Samson has demanded the payroll be slashed 25-30% with speculation it may be as low as $40M(33%). Give it time and 'a source' will say it may be down to $35M or $30M and that we may not allow Girardi to hire a bench coach. So we trade Beckett and Lowell for Blalock. Like it or not, Lowell in the deal with his contract lowers Beckett's value. I'll be the first to say that a good pitcher beats a good bat. But come on...trading for a young solid hitter such as Blalock who has been an All-Star is not exactly trading for garbage. But wait..."sources" say that we may turn around and trade Blalock for prospects. If we wanted prospects wouldn't we take the Red Sox offer? If the goal was ONLY to lose payroll why chance getting stuck with Blalock's conract? I am not trying to say anyone should be happy about this, but let's not judge things before they are complete. Maybe it's Castillo OR Pierre. Maybe it's LoDuca and Pierre OR Beckett. Maybe the various names are being shopped to see which path is best to take. Which deals gives us the best team for budget we will go with. The only thing that is certain is that local and national media love the topic of firesale. They love the topic of no baseball in South Florida. They love the topic of the Marlins payroll going lower and lower and every player acquired will be churned until it reaches the lowest possible payroll. Great to see everyone has such faith in a few men that showed faith in us as fans (though we didn't deliver for them...not saying fans are obligated to). Loria came in here and traded away Floyd and Dempster and got drilled. It worked out. He spent money midseason of 2003 as he said he would to bring us a winner. He spent more money to bring in people like Pudge and Delgado as free agents. He has NEVER let us down. Will he this time, maybe. Hell, why not...many of you have already convicted him. I understand it's a business so I can't fault Loria for whatever he does. Just as I cannot fault anyone for not going to Marlins games. We do with our money as we wish and he does with his what he thinks is right. For those of you that will be a Marlins fan and attend games no matter what try as best you can to accept any deals and look for the positives...we'll have fun. For those that have already stated that if Beckett is dealt they will not attend any more games or are done with the Marlins....SEEYA! You are a fan of winning and not the Marlins so no big loss. That's why you left us in 1998 and returned in 2003.

So Cabrera and Willis are traded too? Gimme a break. Why not wait and see what happens?

The same people that moaned about Dempster, Floyd, Clement, Preston Wilson and CJ being traded away are moaning again. If Loria believes this team needs to be reshaped for whatever reason (bad chemistry or need to slash payroll) it is his decision. It's his money and it's his team's fans not attending games. The team will be different. Just about the entire coaching staff will be different. Why don't we wait to see the end result? Beinfest has been put on a mission and there is no one better imo to seak out the best trades and to put together the best possible team with the budget he is given.

? Incidentally, for 2006, James projects: Ryan Howard to hit 44 homers; Marlins rookie Jeremy Hermida to hit 27 homers with a .946 OPS; Nats 3B Ryan Zimmerman .315; BJ Upton .270 with 13 homers; Delmon Young .284 with 16 HR; Rickie Weeks .267 with 26 HR; Rockies 1B Ryan Shealy .301 with 13 HR; Cubs CF Felix Pie to hit 21 HR and an .874 OPS; Mets 2B Anderson Hernandez .295 with a .336 OBP; Chris Ddenorfia .308; Cubs INF Ronnie Cedeno .310 with an .800 OPS; Murton .318 with an .859 OPS; and Orioles rookie Nick Markakis .315 with a .910 OPS.

Juan pierre, Aaron Heilman, Anderson Hernandez to the YANKEES Tonyon Sturtze, Carlos Delgado and Scott Olsen to the METS Kaz Matsui , Mike Cameron and Carl Pavano to the Blue Jays Gary Sheffield and Mike Lowell to Boston Josh Tower, Ted Lilly, and Manny Ramirez to Marlins :thumbup or :thumbdown NY Post It's not a bigtime rumor..just ideas shared by Joel Sherman.

Born in Queens and raised on L.I.....Mets. In the 80s when I was a kid I used to cry they lost so much. When the Marlins were announced I dropped the Mets immediately. Some say how can a true fan drop their team...well, this was home and the Marlins were new. I felt the same way for the Heat and Panthers. They were my baby from day 1. It took a lot longer to root for the Phins. Favorite Mets: Joel Youngblood, Mookie Wilson and Dwight Gooden. Don't ask me why but I never liked Steve Henderson or Pete Falcone.

I loved Bruce Aven. He was so awesome. How about Mario Diaz or Rich Scheid? I actually hung out with Rich Scheid, another youngster named Sammy Sosa and a catcher (I forget who it was..but he was a rookie at the time) at Confetti's (for anyone old enough to remember the club) back in the early 90's. They were in town during spring training with the White Sox to play the Yanks in FTL. Rich was as wet behind the ears as one could get...but seemed like a decent guy. As for Sammy...well, I forever get to say I hung out with Sammy Sosa. Granted it was the Sammy that hit 10 homers and 30rbis, made very little $$ and had arms that were not much bigger than mine :whistle

Best Manager Ever? Did someone actually post that? Hmmm. I wish Jack well and in '03 his whip and gut feelings worked out well for us. Anyhoe that saw Jack manage in the Reds, Padres or even before that knows he is a pretty poor manager. He has never been able to manage a bullpen and has always run into problems with communication in the clubhouse. Jack has always worn out his welcome much like Billy Martin, Mike Keenan, etc, etc. When Jack's gut feeligs work out he looks like a genius but that's no way to manage a team long term because usually thise moves just end up looking ridiculous. Thanks for the memories, sure. Great manager? Come on now. P.S. Did Jack say in the post game show that he wises these young players were here earlier in the season? Dillon was. Willingham was. Aguila was. Hermida he said would platoon with Conine but that ended after one bad game. Good luck Jack but I am not sorry to see you go. We need to move forward now you can't keep the hate out of a farewell thread for Jack? Jack's record disaprove your point that he isn't a great manager. I don't hate Jack. Why must everything be love w/o exception or hate? I just have never liked his style of managing. That has nothing to do with the person he is. I think it's fair to say that we have had two under-performing seasons.

Best Manager Ever? Did someone actually post that? Hmmm. I wish Jack well and in '03 his whip and gut feelings worked out well for us. Anyhoe that saw Jack manage in the Reds, Padres or even before that knows he is a pretty poor manager. He has never been able to manage a bullpen and has always run into problems with communication in the clubhouse. Jack has always worn out his welcome much like Billy Martin, Mike Keenan, etc, etc. When Jack's gut feeligs work out he looks like a genius but that's no way to manage a team long term because usually thise moves just end up looking ridiculous. Thanks for the memories, sure. Great manager? Come on now. P.S. Did Jack say in the post game show that he wises these young players were here earlier in the season? Dillon was. Willingham was. Aguila was. Hermida he said would platoon with Conine but that ended after one bad game. Good luck Jack but I am not sorry to see you go. We need to move forward now

Marlins average 23k. The teams in and around Michigan: Tigers average 26K Indians average 24k Reds 24k Pirates 23.5K Yea, that part of the country is going crazy for their baseball I see. It is simply the in-thing to say the Marlins don't draw (which they don't) even though many other teams dont as well. Just like its the in-thing to say the Marlins will slash payroll...but the Tigers won't?

I am still very glad that we kept him. He is just struggling right now. This is not the end of his career. I hope we do re-sign him for cheaper than expected and then he pitches lights out next season. I think many of us are setting our expectations of our pitchers way too high. We can't have our entire starting rotation filled with Cy Youngs. He settled down nicely yesterday after giving up three runs... and it is not like we would have won that game had he given up no runs. 947160[/snapback] I disagree totally. He wants to be paid as an ace. An ace is a pitcher that contends for the Cy Young. AJ is a # 3 pitcher that deserves a salary of about $5M per season...I'd agree to that. AJ wants $10M+

Come on guys. When some of us said he needed to be traded where were all of you? So many wishers and so few thinkers. This one was easy to see coming. Since trade deadline.. 4 Wins 5 Losses 3.86 ERA AJ has never won a big game in his career. He is our version of Kevin Millwood. AJ is a solid # 3 pitcher who should make between $5-$6M per season. He is not an ace. He is not a prospect who's better days are ahead of him. It's time boys....it's time to stop being an AJ apologist. It's the pens fault? An ace WINS games be it 7-6 or 1-0 and of late AJ is on the wrong side of all decisions. 6 innings, 3 runs is not solid when a player calls it the biggest game of his career. When the going got tough AJ was not willing to challenge the # 8 hitter and Roger Clemens. So for those of you that said we'd be nuts to trade AJ....that we need to play for this year and not the next five...don't be jumping on AJ now. You wanted him. You got him. Next time think with your head and not your heart and all will turn out well.

They forced Marlins starter A.J. Burnett to make a quick departure from the mound, and he made an equally quick one from the clubhouse, refusing to talk to reporters after losing his fourth consecutive start. Typical AJ....do poorly and run away.

Last four games... Innings Pitched: 18.1 Hits: 25 Walks: 11 Earned Runs: 21 As some of us said near the deadline....the guy has never pitched in and won big games. And in these big games down the stretch what has AJ done? Well, he has talked down to fans about attendance. McCarthy, Anderson and Marte....:::sigh::: would have been nice. At least he still throws a mean pie to the face.

Pierre Castillo Cabrera Delgado Encarnacion Hermida LoDuca Gonzalez Protect Hermida with a solid gitter behind him.