Stag5

The win is nice, but am I the only one that sees little emotion? Home run...they high five..but I don't see much excitement. Nevetheless, good job Dontrelle!

It was strong enough to garner a reply. And though it may have taken your point out of context I think I made mine. Sarcasm cuts both ways if that's what this is.

So the Marlins fans opinions and our teams direction should be decided based on how Cardianl fans react towards their team? Oh.

If Jack is shown the door I think management has three directions to go. They could bring in a proven winner who has respect from the players he managed. They could bring in a guy to kick some ass and rattle the cages. Or they can bring in someone that emphasizes fundamentals and gets away from Earl Weaver ball and back to Marlins ball. I'd Talk To: Kevin Kennedy: He has proven he can win. He has proven he can manage personalities such as Juan Gonzalez and Jose Canseco. He is a take no crap kind of manager that shows respect to the players but also demands it back in return. Bucky Dent: Bucky is a teacher at heart. He has managed in pressure situations and would make sure the game is played right. Davey Lopes: He never really had a chance with the Brewers. He played and managed an aggressive style of baseball which is something the Marlins have always thrived with. Another middle infielder, he understands that fundementals and execution is a major part of the game. Bill Russell: I must admit I don't know too much about what went wrong in LA for him. But I do remember he was considered a great up and coming manager. I'd definitly speak to him. A teammate of Lopes he understands players have roles and the 3-run HR is not the only offensive strategy. Admin Bowa: I do not believe this is the directyion we go but he knows the team, the team knows him and he will rattle cages. I do not think this is what we need, but if they want to take back the clubhouse, Bowa might be the guy. Bobby Valentine: He has won. He is not a man stuck in his ways. Again he is not for me but he is a Bowa-type. I'd Hire: 1. Kevin Kennedy 2. Bucky Dent 3. Davey Lopes

MVP: Carlos Delgado

Remember that long losing streak that the Marlins had in 2003 about early/mid August when were still in the Wild Card chase and things looked bleak for a while? Guys, we have yet to reach the mid point of the season yet and the division is still very much in reach. Now I don't know whats going to happen by the end of the season, but this team has too much talent to keep stumbling like they have and they will pick it up. Like Cape said, it only takes is a streak or two and we are we'll be fine. No reason for anyone to panic. 820310[/snapback] Thank you. :notworthy It's amazing how many threads are made every day (lately) with people in complete panic mode. All you gotta be is average the 1st half of the marathon, and then break from the pack in the latter half of the year. While you can't be happy about a lot of the losses lately, just keep cool. 820327[/snapback] I think it's obvious that some people here just need to vent thier frustrations and others have never really followed baseball this seriously before and don't understand that a season has hot streaks where our team seems invincible and cold streaks where we look like dog s***. Hopefully this season will be educational to alot of fans and lead to the foundation of a great baseball fan base here in SoFla. We are just in our infancy as a baseball community and we are still learning the ropes. 820343[/snapback] Hmm..I am 38 years old. I have been watching baseball since 1975. I have discussing baseball online since 1986. And I have been posting here since 2003. I wonder if I am a venter or just learning the ropes. I thought I was just a fan with an opinion.

Guys, And if Jack stays and they continue this slide we don't want to hear you calling for his head aty years end. And if changes are made and they turn things around we don't want you celebrating the victory. Sheesh. Your posting makes little sense to me. There are quite a few people in this forum that have been calling for a change for a long time. This team is not in a slump. This team is underperforming. There is a difference....that is why a change is needed.

In '97 we bought an All-Star team of veterans that were there for one reason...to win a championship. In 2003, we made trades and fired a manager. In 2005 we have Pierre whining that he doesn't play everyday, Leiter that he is not allowed to throw 120 pityches, AJ that he should be given the chance to get out of his innings, Mota that he is not closer...Me! Me! Me! Me! We have some selfish players. In 2003 they followed Jack as youngsters and Pudge took charge. This year Mota wants out, AJ is thinking FA, Juan E. awaits a trade, and two people that are considered Marlins heart and sould (Pierre and Lowell) do not have the numbers that allow them (or should I say they may not feel its their place) to step up and take charge verbally. Bottom line is I dont see anyone stepping forward for Jack....that did not happen in the past. This is not 1997 or 2003. Hopefully we make changes and you can mention 2005 in future years.

And there lies the problem. A clubhouse with confusion and bickering is a team with no leadership and no unity. Jack no longer has the ear of the players and he does not seem to be able to motivate them at this point either. It may not be fair but its a problem....and you can't fire 25 players.

Kevin Kennedy. The guy has been a winner and always well respected by his players. He also takes no crap. I'd also talk Bucky Dent a manager that will demand fundementals be a part of the game.

Because you start playing small ball at the start of the game...you stay in the game...you don't allow it to become 8-0. You score a run here and there and you put pressure on opponent. 821641[/snapback] Maybe. But rarely do we ever get a baserunner with none out.... or very often with one out for that matter. 821687[/snapback] RFerry, I can't argue with that. But is there any reason why Pierre, Castillo, Encarnacion, LoDuca and Gonzalez (as he did today) can't put down a bunt for a basehit to lead off an inning? Speaking of that..Our worst hitter, Lowell bats 5th and our 2nd worst hitter, Pierre bats leadoff. Meanwhile Gonzalez has as many RBIs as Lowell and has is batting an average of .280 and he bats 8th? Gonzalez (H+BB) and Pierre (H+BB) is almost the same but Pierre has scored like 20 more times. Gonzalez .281 average would mean more hits if he had more at bats (higher in the lineup) would get better pitches to hit and would score more runs if the pitchers and Pierre was not hitting while he ws on base. I have sured so much on McKeon. I feel bad, I like the guy. I just think he is so stuck in his ways and has lost the teams following that there is little hope.

el penguino, We have 0 runs the last 24 innings. All I am saying is that it's time to make smart outs when a runner is on 2nd and move him to third. It is time to focus on laying down a simple sacrafice bunt. It is time to put runners in motion. How will that make things worse? We are a .500 team that hasn't scored in 2 1/2 games. Do whatever is possible to bring in 1 run. Then do whatever is possible toi bring in the 2nd run. Along the way we may get a lead. Along the way we may put pressure on teams. Along the way we may open up opportunities to go for the fences an a favorable count. Our team is playing like it's XBOX. It's real baseball and that calls for real strategy.

Because you start playing small ball at the start of the game...you stay in the game...you don't allow it to become 8-0. You score a run here and there and you put pressure on opponent. When youy are shutout for now...24 innings? You start the next game with small ball in mind. When the run run homers return we can become more conservative and wait for the big inning.

Earlier this season I raised the idea that we need a change at manager. That was met by many objections because McKeon was manager of the 2003 team. I believe this team has quit on Jack McKeon. As many of you have noted our numbers are not bad. But we are losing. We are losing to good teams and bad teams. We are losing to good pitchers and bad pitchers. Offense: When players don't hit it will be difficult to score, but where has our small ball skills gone? The three run HR is nice but when it is not there we have the players that should be able to generate runs. Steals are way down, Hit & Runs are so rare for us, sacraficing has been horrible at times and moving runners over with smart outs is something we do not do. Bullpen: In 2003 our pen was not too good. We made it through with Looper and Uggie, but we were fortunate. Last year McKeon was so unhappy with his young pen, he managed it poorly and it was a disaster. We all loved the pen this year and yet it is not where we think it should be. What is the common thread? Jack McKeon. He has never managed a pen well. Roles are poorly defined and no one ever pitches up to expectations (aside from Todd Jones). Communication: Pierre, Mota, AJ, whoever whined about the lineups. Jack is doing what he wants...and he has lost the teams following. If you believe Jack is the right man for the job then you must think this team just is not that good. Not good enough to play better than .500 ball and certainly not good enough to win the division. So everyone ready for a managerial change? If THAT does not give the team a boost then you move some players such as FA's to be that may not be re-signed and/or Mike Lowell since Cabrera may be our future 3B. But lets gives these guys a few weeks under the the leadership of new blood.

I am all for trades because I think this team has lost its leadership on the field and in the clubhouse. But until that happens I'd like to see Dillon get some AB's at 3B and I'd like to see Aguila back up getting some AB's. Maybe it simply pushes Lowell and Pierre or maybe it gives the team a spark.....but it is something other than spinning our wheels.

Smoltz is a great big-game pitcher, AJ Burnett is not. The Braves execute fundemental baseball and the Marlins do not. Typically we can write this off as a loss in ATL versus a great pitcher except for the fact that when you lose games against beatable teams and beatable pitchers you need to make it up by beating good teams and good pitchers....even in their ballpark.

Most know my thoughts on McKeon...heyt I started the It's time to let Jack go thread. But yesterday allowing Moehler start the 9th I think was the right decision. The problem was not when he took him out or who he brought in. It was 13 runners left on base. It was 7 runners left in scoring position. Today Jack again did fine on the pitching decisions imo. Our staff allowed 2 solo HRs to Vlad....the bats did not do their part. Same as I have said all along...this team is not executing.

I did not double check my numbers but I am certainly close. We have played 20 games so far that have been decided by 5 or more runs. In our first ten games we were 9-1. In our last ten games we are 2-8. What does this mean? I have no clue. But it does tell me we are not putting away teams at all and our middle relief is turning close games into blowouts the other way. Just a useless stat to throw out...maybe someone can make something of it.

Mesa, Grabow, Gonzalez and Redman all would have a place on the Marlins. But none of them gaurantee this team the NL East and so I could not give up our top prospect in a deal...now if they want to include Jason Bay Just for fun (if the Yanks really would make a major move) how about: Pierre, Encarnacion and Lieter for Sheffield and Quantrill We'd either need Aguila in CF or add a Tike Redman, Alex Sanchez, etc.

I thought only MARLINS threads are suppose to be posted here?

and we finished 13 or 14 games out so I don't see the point of this thread. 805450[/snapback] Great comment. I also don't get so many people that keep wanting to compare this season to 2003. If were winning a World Championship had a mold that can easily be followed year in and year out then everyone would would be having the same strategy. The fact is there are so many factors on and off the field that play a part that each season is unique. 2003 was a great season and can be seen on DVD, but it's over. It's history. Btw, part of making up that ground had to do with a change in management and attitude on the team. We have not seen that yet on the 2005 team. What we have seen is players say it's not fun. What we have seen is Jack being more harsch than supportive to his players which is different than 2003.

CA LoDuca - Take his mind off run production and just getting on base. SS Gonzalez - He has never been in the middle of the action. I'd like to see what happens. LF Cabrera 1B Delgado RF Encarnacion 3B Easley - He is hitting and Lowell is not...what more can be said. LF Conine - I love Pierre but right now we can't afford his weak bat. Someone has to hit. 2B Castillo - bat him in front of Dontrelle...could be a decent inning.

Stag5, I don't see the point of bumping this back. This was created two weeks ago, and a lot has happend since then. 797748[/snapback] Fresh Fish, I understand your point. So often we post things and are never accountable. I gaurantee you that if I looked through my old posts I'd find a lot of things I was dead-wrong about. What bothered me about this post was the tone one member took with fans that were sharing their opinions..and hey, these fans ended up being correct. I wouldn't drag back someones post to say...see, I toldya so. I did this in hopes that in the future when fans are debating changes if someone is upset with the content they either debate it or pass it by. Telling people to "shut up" and to "Stop being little bitches, complaining about everything" is language used by a person that thinks far too highly of his own opinions and very little of others.

Yeah. You still haven't properly understood my original post. I said complain with logic and keep the threads down. I never said don't complain. But apparently they don't teach reading comprehension anymore. 797743[/snapback] Acfually you never said that but that would have been a nice post. You said "Stop being little bitches, complaining about everything." And why are you telling me that you didn't say don't complain? I never said you did. I said you told these posters to "shut up." Your words, not mine. Ya know what they say about a person that says they are not guilty about something they were never accused of. Oh well...we are where we are and hopefully the team moves forward.

No, it's not. Anything else?