DownRodeo

That's where the game was lost. It wasn't Dontrelle, it wasn't Fox, if it was anyone it was Lee. C'mon Marlins2003, that's an utterly ridiculous statement. It's convenient to blame Lee for the loss because two runs scored on the play he botched, but that's a narrow-minded view of things. Did Willis not give up a homer earlier in the inning to make it a 2-run game? Did he not allow two baserunners to reach before Lieberthal's hit? Yeah, those two runs would not have scored had Lee made the catch. They also wouldn't have scored had Willis gotten either Polanco or Abreu out. You also seem to forget that the big reason we even had the lead was because of Lee's double to lead off the 4th. I just find it absurb for someone to say that if anyone lost us the game, it was Lee. It seems to me that Lee is judged by stricter standards than anyone else on this team.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that Cabs could play any position he wanted. If the Fish said "Cabs you're catching tonight" he'd be out there with that boyish grin of his calling for fastballs and sliders for nine innings. He is the real deal, and we are d*mn lucky to have him. I agree 100%. Cabs just seems to have that natural athleticism that allows him to take to any position. The fact is, even if Cabs is only mediocre defensively at short, it's still worth moving him there. And from what I've seen of him, I have a hard time believing Cabs would be less than mediocre at short.

miguel cabrera at SS won't cut it. SS is an important position. any old joe (or jose) won't cut it Since when is Cabrera just "any old joe"? Besides, he was strictly a shortstop his entire baseball life except for the last year or so, so it's not like he's unfamiliar with the position. The fact is, even if Cabrera plays mediocre defense at short, that's better than Gonzo and the black hole he creates in our lineup (a couple flukey months notwithstanding).

I've been wondering myself how Cabrera would handle shortstop in the majors. It seems pretty clear that Gonzo will always be the least productive player in our lineup offensively and -- let's face it -- while he does make the occasional defensive gem at short, he also makes the occasional boneheaded play. If Cabrera could handle playing shortstop (and he's stated that he's always wanted to play shortstop), that would allow us to have both Conine (in left) and Lee (at first) in the lineup next season. If Cabs could play short, then instead of looking to trade Lee this offseason, we could trade Agon and let Pudge sign elsewhere. An infield of Lee, Castillo, Cabrera, and Lowell would be pretty scary. I don't know if it's financially possible, but production-wise it'd be a good course of action.

It's so funny, you guys talk about a conflict of interest with Jim Wolf umpiring the games. Don't you think it's a conflict of interest for MARLINS FANS to be judging how good Jim Wolf is umpiring? Geez, every time Wolf made a semi-borderline call, you guys cry out "suspend Wolf!" Please. I watched the game too, and I saw plenty of borderline balls and strikes that went the Marlins way. But as a Marlin fan, you're not going to remember the calls that go our way, only the one's that didn't. Let's not blame Looper, who allowed 4 hits (all hit sharply) and didn't fool anybody. Let's not blame Conine who left 5 men on base. Naw...it's Jim Wolf's fault we lost. Please.

There have been 3 really close plays at first base in the past few innings (Castillo throwing out the runner at first after the bad throw to 2nd, Castillo beating out an infield hit, and Gonzo/Castillo turning a DP), and all of them went in the Marlins' favor. At what point do we say that maybe, just maybe, Wolf doesn't give a crap about helping out the Phillies?

That was a bang-bang play at first just now with Castillo running, and Jim Wolf called him safe. Strange, I thought he had it out for the Marlins.

f you know anything about montreal baseball....up until the strike in 94, they drew excellent crowds. Not really. Since the mid-80s their attendance has been pretty bad.

What was up with Penny's reaction? That was the most awkward thing I've ever seen. Tossing your glove and then walking to the dugout before the pitching coach even gets out there? Strange...

His stats show he's Jim Thome like on the road LMFAO Curiously, what'd you find so humorous about that statement? Lee's stats on the road are actually better than Jim Thome's overall numbers.

With the $1 Million that will be freed up? I said we should use the money we save to resign Lowell and Castillo. Now that Pudge has proven to everybody that he's healthy and productive, my guess is he'll command, at the very least, $8 million on the open market (the O's offered 6 mil last offseason coming off his worst year). Hence, we would be saving about $8 million (or however much Pudge demands this offseason) by not attempting to resign him. I am fully aware that not much money is actually freed up by letting Pudge go, but we would still save a lot by not dishing out 7 mil or 8 mil or whatever he demands this offseason. Anyway, from your other comment, it seems you agree with me that letting Pudge go is our best option, so I'm not sure why you chose to argue this point.

Well, you learn somethin new everyday... I do agree with you, the market for 2B this offseason will be really thin. I think the best course of action would be to let Pudge leave and use the money you save to resign Lowell and Castillo to long-term deals. Or if Pudge just can't get enough of the Marlins, then perhaps trade Castro to a team that can offer a second basemen.

Can you really replace Luis? Do we have any options, other than keeping him, that would give us the production he does? I think not. Mark Loretta will be a free agent this offseason. I have no idea if the Fish are interested in him or if he would play for the Fish, but he's putting up very solid numbers for the Padres this season. My guess is he would come a lot cheaper than Castillo. We'll see what happens this offseason...

2. Trade Lee and Encarnacion and if necesary Redman and Urbina to pare payroll. Do not be seduced into trading Penny for a bat. Even though I was hoping DLee would be a part of our future, the acquisition of Conine seems to indicate that Lee's days as a Fish are numbered. I'm just hoping Beinfest gets something decent in return when he finally does decide to deal him. I've never been high on Encarnacion, so I agree that we're better off trading him than paying him the 5 mil or so he'll probably earn next season. Urbina will be a free agent this offseason, so we won't be able to get anything for him (unless we offer him arbitration, in which case we'd get a first-round pick if he declined). 3. Do not re-sign Helling or Fox no matter how well they perform this season. Agreed. Although I'm not actually sure if Fox will be a free agent at the end of the season. He doesn't have 6 full major league seasons under his belt after all. But both aren't that important to our future. 4. If Pudge re-signs allow Mike Redmond to leave as a free agent (assuming Castro isn't in jail). With Treanor in AAA, live with two catchers. Mike deserves a chance to play more than he does. Despite Pudge's latest comments that he likes playing down here, I really don't think he's worth the financial commitment. Give Castro the chance to play that he's been patiently waiting for, and use the extra money to resign Lowell and whoever else. 5. Unless he comes to you with a hat in hand offer, go to arbitration with Mike Lowell and pay him for one year whatever he is awarded. Do not listen to the press, do not be forced into a corner. Until Mike shows he can actually play a full season, do not pay him like he will. I think you're being a little harsh on Lowell. Mike has shown the ability to play a full season. He played in 160 games last year and 146 the year before that. And he would've played around 150 games this season if not for that flukey wrist injury. If you pay him for just one year, then he'll be a free agent at the end of 2004, and there'll be plenty of teams who'll be able to offer more money than the Fish. 6. Do not re-sign AJ until you know he will pitch again. Lose him before you invest $3 million in him. He's uninsurable, and for $3 mil you can sign any one of five or six first string starting pitchers. AJ's making 2.5 mil this season, and I can't imagine he'd be due for a huge raise coming off Tommy John surgery. I think you give him another 1-year-deal for next season, and if he shows he's fully recovered from his injury, then you sign him long term. 7. Keep the pitching staff intact unless you can trade Redman for a front-line starting power lefty because there's no guarantee Dontrelle will ever pitch effectively in the majors again. I want to be wrong about this. Redman will never be worth more than he is right now. If you are forced to trade one of the starting five, get the most back in return, and that means trading Redman. Interesting point regarding Redman, his trade value probably will be rather high at the end of the season. The complaint about him in Detroit was that he wore down late in the season, and, well...he seems to be doing it again this season (although part of that may be because he's being overworked). In line with your next suggestion... 9. Finally find that left-handed power bat we so desperately need. If Redman could be traded for, say, JD Drew, I would consider pulling the trigger on that deal. Obviously it's a slight risk because Drew hasn't proved all that durable. But, (1) he's only 27, so he's not too old to fully recover from his injuries, and (2) when he's in the lineup, he produces. Considering that our starting rotation is our strength, and left-handed power hitting is our weakness, I think it'd be worth the risk. I'm not sure who else might be available this offseason. Would the Brewers trade Geoff Jenkins for pitching? Maybe the Royals with Carlos Beltran? The Red Sox almost dealt Trot Nixon to the Fish this past offseason, although they might think differently now with the numbers he's putting up. I know the Indians FO is getting rather PO'd with Milton Bradley's antics. Who knows. Anyway, those are my 2 cents.

Lee is going to be making 6 Million next year and why we need to waste the money on a non productive hitter who is starting to heat up now but later will be in a slump again. Well, that's purely speculative. He's only 27, so it's certainly possible, even likely, that we haven't seen the best of DLee. Most players don't peak at 27 after all, especially first basemen. Meanwhile, Conine is 37, so he's most likely not going to get appreciably better than his current performance. Conine is hitting well over .300 with RISP Actually, he's hitting .260 with RISP. Only 7 pct. points more than DLee's average with RISP. Not as clutch as he appears to be I guess. Decrying the FO for going out and getting a replacement when the team MVP gets hurt is incredible. I can't beleive you all would of rather sat pat with Brian Banks, especially in light of the fact that this team can't score in a whorehouse with a fistful of fifties right now. Going after a replacement for Lowell is not, in and of itself, what bothered me. What annoyed me is who we gave up (our best pitching prospect) and what we got in return (a 37-year-old 1B/LF with below average power). If it came down to acquiring Conine for Bautista or doing nothing, then I would have preferred doing nothing. I can't really start to judge this trade until after this season when we can see how Conine aided our playoff run...but I'm pretty sure Brian Banks or Todd Hollandsworth could've gone 1 for 14 over the last four games.

Lee is way to old to still have that potential tag. He's 27. I would hardly consider him too old to realize his potential. he's no Giambi. Pretty ironic, since Giambi didn't accomplish much of anything by age 27.

How are you going to say it is a true measure? Slugging Percentage and On Base Percentage vary by games you play the same way average does. The best stat IMO for judging players is Total Bases and its derivatives. Considering that slugging pct. is Total Bases divided by At-bats, I have trouble understanding why you don't care for OPS.

The answer to your question is the O's Jay Gibbons. The O's are ready to load up on big names in 2004 and a scappy, overachiever like Jay may not fit in. I'm sure everyone has a favorite, he's mine, but other may have equal or better choices. I've never heard the term 'scrappy' used to describe a guy who hits over 20 homers a season. Anyway, I don't think the Orioles have the same opinion of Jay Gibbons as you do (scrappy overachiever). On the contrary, I'm pretty sure they see him as a big part of their future. He's young, talented, and cheap, and most teams aren't so willing to trade away those types of players. If you want to talk about scrappy overachieving outfielders for the Orioles, I'd think Melvin Mora would be the first name mentioned. My guess is the O's would rather dump his flukey season on some unsuspecting team (hopefully not the Marlins).

Juan E is definitely overpaid, but who can we replace him with that would provide replacement level stats at this point? We could try Aguila, Padgett, Ambres, or Nunez...did you have any OF's in mind? This is purely speculating, but I would trade Enc. for JD Drew this offseason if the opportunity were to arise. St. Louis has used a slew of different players in RF this season (including Drew), and I'm guessing they would like a player who could play there everyday. Drew is constantly in LaRussa's doghouse, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind some team taking him off his hands. Both Drew and Enc earn approx. the same amount of money this season, but I'd imagine Enc. is due for a bigger raise since Drew has only racked up 231 ABs this season. Obviously the big drawback with Drew is that he's injured a lot. But when he's actually in the lineup, he's always productive. And he's only 27, so it's not like he's too old to recover from his ailments. Drew also would supply that lefty bat in the middle of our lineup that is conspicuously missing. Overall, I think it'd be worth the risk, especially since it would save us money in the process.

ANd if you remember, we were working on deals for both White and Drew not too long ago - but chose not to give up prospects for them either. Why would we all of a sudden pull the trigger on this deal? Desperation, we were going to be had, but considering how bad it could have gotten we didnt do too bad. We didn't? Giving up your best prospect for Jeff Conine is "not doing too bad"? Your comments remind me of that infamous quote Bobby Knight made several years ago: "If you're going to get raped, you might as well sit back and enjoy it." I'm sorry, but just because we were forced to give up our best prospect doesn't mean I have to feel good about it.

It always amazes me how fast Penny can lose it after appearing so dominant.

Conine is in the lineup today, batting 4th. He actually arrived at the stadium at 3:00.

Did we overpay? Hell yes. But you have to in this situation No, you don't. Or at least, if your GM is competent you don't. Look at the deals around the league made for similar players. Rondell White. Eric Young. Aaron Boone. Raul Mondesi. Jeromy Burnitz. Jose Guillen. None of those teams traded their best pitching prospect to acquire those players (many of whom are better than Conine). The Pads barely gave up more to land Brian Giles! Hey, if Lowell's sudden injury causes teams to grossly overcharge...then don't trade! It's not worth it...at least, not for Jeff Conine.

Ummm.... I don't have a farm system fetish like some other members who really research the kids in the minors, but what exactly is so damn impressive about Bautista other than people telling us he's impressive? 4-5 with a 3.71 ERA? I realize that my assessment is in primia facia without alot of knowledge about him, but his numbers aren't exaclty those of a world beater. He's 20 years old pitching in AA with 63 K's in 53 IP. Look around the minors and find all the 20-year-olds currently pitching in AA with more strikeouts than innings pitched. You won't find many.

I did some research and not because of your post exactly. Yeah? So how many 21-year-olds in AA with more Ks than IP are there? Losing two minor leaguers who are not a sure bet to become major leaguers one day is not a problem for me Argh, this is such a tired argument. Sure, Bautista is not a sure bet. What the heck is? How do you know Conine will be as productive here as he was in Baltimore? How do you know Banks or Hollandsworth wouldn't have gotten hot in the last month of the season? How do you know acquiring Conine will push us into the playoffs? Even if we make the playoffs, how do you know we wouldn't have made the playoffs without Conine? Obviously no prospect is a sure bet. But Bautista has about as much potential to be a star pitcher as any prospect out there. I would venture to guess that a huge chunk of pitchers who reach AA by age 21 and record more Ks than IP go on to become solid major leaguers. Now, the question you have to ask yourself is this: Is Jeff Conine and his 4 or 5 additional hits worth giving up a prospect who has at least a decent chance at becoming a star major league pitcher? BTW, if you don't think Conine is a great player, go a do some research of your own. You must have some pretty loose criteria for defining great players.