Cabrerafan

I just dont care. Bonds wasnt the only guy using steroids. Everyone from Bonds to the 25th man on the roster was using steroids. Ofcourse pitchers are excused from steroid talk too. All I know is that Bonds, like him or hate him, is the best ball player of my lifetime. No one even comes close. If the Marlins have a chance to get him in a Marlins uni, you do it. He is still a premier player and with him, cabs and HanRam in the same lineup, I am practically drooling here. So are trying to excuse bad behavior by citing more bad behavior? Obviously the guy who's considered one of the greatest ever, and who broke perhaps the most cherished record in professional sports is going to get the most attention. Of course having a guy like Bonds in the same lineup as Hanley and Cabrera is drool-inducing , but I cannot find it in me to cheer for someone, who in my opinion, has made a mockery of the game.

Swift, why even respond anymore? Statistics dictate your point to be the correct thought. No use even wasting any additional time trying to prove a point that people blinded by hatred will always refuse to acknowledge. If Barry Bonds' name was 'Ken Griffey Jr.' people would be all for this move. i dont hate barry bonds...not at all...i respect his accomplishments within the game as a historian and a baseball fan...but i dont want him anywhere near a marlins uniform...sorry...the negatives with him vastly outweigh the positives for the marlins as an organization...did andre dawson give the marlins credibility? or did winning two world series championships win us a title? those teams were built on speed, defense, pitching, and great situational baseball...OPS doesnt recognize the difference between striking out in the clutch and hitting a homerun 9 runs down...but world series rings sure know the difference... To say that speed-defense-pitching is the only way to win is rediculous. yes I agree that pitching does win championships but you tell me whos out there in the pitchers market that we can sign for a one year deal? This is freaking Barry Bonds we are talking about. I dont understand the hate for arguably the greatest hitter of all time and definitely the most feared hitter of all time. Not only will it improve our team on the field but it will improve our publicity and also increase our attendance. I dont see this getting done but I just dont understand how you could be against a move like this if it were to get done. Yeah, you're right. It's so hard to understand why people dislike a notorious a$$hole who the majority feel is a cheater. I'll say this much: I'm surprised by all the Bonds love here. For those who support him, do you feel he is innocent, or do you just not care? There's a lot of intelligent people on this board, and I can't imagine it would be the latter.

Bo Derek

Ursula Andress

Would Miggy, Alfredo, and Uggla's behavior in the dugout count as childish? Are they referring to those guys specifically? Those guys were always playing around with each other. I don't think it's a big deal. I was thinking the same thing. All that matters to me is their performance on the field. I remember Alfredo saying something once about how Cabrera is playful off the field, but once he steps on it, he's very serious and focused. What I think they are implying is off the field behavior (on the plane, partying, etc.). I think Alfredo has nothing to do with the behavior problems. I think these problems are more along the lines of Uggla, Olsen, Cabrera and others. I can't imagine what certain players would be doing on the plane that would be childish enough to be deemed inappropriate.

Would Miggy, Alfredo, and Uggla's behavior in the dugout count as childish? Are they referring to those guys specifically? Those guys were always playing around with each other. I don't think it's a big deal. I was thinking the same thing. All that matters to me is their performance on the field. I remember Alfredo saying something once about how Cabrera is playful off the field, but once he steps on it, he's very serious and focused.

I truly love the people that want to move Cabrera simply because they don't like him. Finances not considered, talent not considered, they just don't like him. That one's brilliant. Intangi-scale ho!!! i might have missed some posts just cause i was skimming it but whos said they dont like cabrera? i know my point is in response to all those that think if he moves to 1B he will be a plus defender...and his attitude...i think we all recognize that he is the best hitter around and that the marlins will eventually move him due to thier constraints(unless we get a stadium deal before next yr)...i mean wouldnt you agree all things considered that cabs attitude can sometimes be...sub par? No, not in the slightest. He cares a hell of a lot about the games, he's nice to kids and he puts up numbers regardless of what may or may not be going on off the field. Maybe Dontrelle and Olsen should follow his example. And the Marlins should, and have to, make every concession possible to keep Cabrera. He's a once in a lifetime talent. Trading him is the end of the fanbase. And he's a fierce competitor who plays through injuries that would land other players on the DL. The only "sub-par attitude" I can think of was back in 2005, with the veterans comment. I don't buy the whole "disciplinary lapses" BS; it's just a way to justify trading him in the future, IMO. Well of course YOU don't. You're a fanboy of his. Fangirl.

I truly love the people that want to move Cabrera simply because they don't like him. Finances not considered, talent not considered, they just don't like him. That one's brilliant. Intangi-scale ho!!! i might have missed some posts just cause i was skimming it but whos said they dont like cabrera? i know my point is in response to all those that think if he moves to 1B he will be a plus defender...and his attitude...i think we all recognize that he is the best hitter around and that the marlins will eventually move him due to thier constraints(unless we get a stadium deal before next yr)...i mean wouldnt you agree all things considered that cabs attitude can sometimes be...sub par? No, not in the slightest. He cares a hell of a lot about the games, he's nice to kids and he puts up numbers regardless of what may or may not be going on off the field. Maybe Dontrelle and Olsen should follow his example. And the Marlins should, and have to, make every concession possible to keep Cabrera. He's a once in a lifetime talent. Trading him is the end of the fanbase. And he's a fierce competitor who plays through injuries that would land other players on the DL. The only "sub-par attitude" I can think of was back in 2005, with the veterans comment. I don't buy the whole "disciplinary lapses" BS; it's just a way to justify trading him in the future, IMO.

Miggy needs to shed 25-30 pounds and get back into shape. I mean yeah he's hitting the sh*t out of the ball, but his defense is sh*t. Make him lose weight so his mobility can help his defense illuminate his overall performance. In order for us to sign Miggy long term he has to be in shape. He's lost a ton of weight since his much publicized weight issues. It's ignorant people that perpetuate this 'issue.' He's a big guy naturally. Go up to him and tell him he's fat. Yeah, so you're calling me an ignorant? He's a big guy naturally, that's why in 03 he was fit and had an 8-pack. He needs to get back in shape for his own good. In '03 he was 20. Most people as they get older do what's called 'filling out.' So in conclusion, yeah, I guess I'm calling you ignorant. You're an idiot. You said he's a big guy naturally, and now you're saying he's big now because he's older and he's "filling out". I guess I missed where growth is unnatural. So everyone should just hold themselves to their prepubescent or even infantile size. In case that's too complicated: Are you as big now as you were when you were twelve? Or in the event you are twelve, are you as big now as you were when you were 7? It happened over 6 months. He gained about 20-30 pounds in an off-season. He needs to lose weight for his own good, it's too early in his career for him to be as out of shape as he is now. If D.Wright and Cabs were free agents right now, Wright would get the most attention because he's fit to be a third baseman for the next 15 years. Cabrera, not so much. At the rate he's going,he's going to play third until he's 26 or 27 and then move to 1B or go to the AL as a DH. Woah woah woah. See this: this is the point. You looking? Good, because you missed it. There's no debate that he put on weight IN the season. He showed up in spring in AMAZING shape. He then pulled an oblique, should have gone on the DL, played through it, couldn't work out and put on weight. After the oblique healed, he got back in shape and he closed the year in better shape than he was in May. If you say he showed up out of shape, then case closed, you're a lost cause. Now, about relating this all to what he was like in 2003...you can't. That's stupid. He wasn't fully grown then. Miggy showed up in February in stellar shape. Miggy had a bad injury. Miggy put on weight. Miggy worked off the weight. Also, in case you forgot, baseball is played every day. Hard to hit the gym intensely when you've got that sort of thing going on. EDIT: Oh wow, I missed the Wright/Cabrera thing. Jeez, I'm kind of glad I did, that was so moronic my head hurts. Do yourself a favor sometime and check out the historical comparisons for Cabrera and Wright regarding their respective age and production. Of Cabrera's top-10, 8 are current or soon to be Hall of Fame players (that's a good thing) and he is most comparable to Hank Aaron (who is #2 on the all-time HR list). Wright? Just one current Hall of Famer (Duke Snider). His most comparable batter through his age? Dick Allen who won an MVP award with the White Sox. Yup, he sure showed up in shape. Clean your mouth, it's full of sh*t. Umm, I fail to see what these pictures show.

O'Reilly gets crucified by media matters, cnn, and MSNBC with half truths and much much less! Exactly.

Uggla is not that great of a defender and his .245 or so avg is not acceptable for a ML 2nd baseman even with his HR and RBI.... OMG. OMG. OMG. OMG. OMG. He's the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. Who cares if he has a .250 batting average if he walks 70 times a year and his 30 home runs. Are you kidding me? He's also the most consistently solid defensive player on the team. I care, because his situational hitting was atrocious. And actually, I'd put Uggla 5th on the team, behind Cabs, Hanley, Hermida and Willingham. But come on, Bob. You watched the games this season. Just as you can't look solely at batting average to determine a player's value, neither can you look at just homers and RBI. If that were the case, Braves fans would be satisfied with Andruw Jones' season. I like Uggs, but he needs to improve with runners on base and stop trying to pull every pitch. And that's up to the coaching to see that and work with him on it. And yes, a .246 average does mean something, particularly with all the wasted opportunities with runners in scoring position.

It would have been nice if Lowell had that kind of a season with us in 2005.

We need this back:

LoDuca's debut was just absolutely magical, the stuff of legend for real baseball towns. Too bad Manzanillo went and ruined the evening. To this day, it's still the only post-homerun curtain call I can remember the "Marlins renaissance" crowd giving. Oh my, I had forgotten about Manzanillo! And I believe the Marlins' fans gave Ross a curtain call after his 3-homer game last season.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to watch the above video, but I would like to share this one of Kit Armstrong at age 10 performing his own composition. It's called "Aeolian," which is an ancient Greek musical mode. I saw him perform a couple of years ago (at age 13) and he's utterly brilliant. He started taking college classes at age 7 and was a full-time undergraduate by 9. Here's a link to his Web site: http://www.geocities.com/kitcarmstrong/ He started writing compositions at age 6, and wrote his first symphony at age 7. Sounds Mozartian, doesn't it?

Watch this video, it is pretty amazing and definitely worth watching the whole thing. How is it possible that kids like this are born with this much talent? Fascinating. Darn, the video is no longer available. Does anyone remember what the kid's name is?

The whole Cabrera-tardiness "fiasco" has been blown out of proportion by the local media, IMO. He made a mistake, he was benched, and he moved on. I think Cabrera has shown plenty of leadership qualities this season as well as last: being the first to congratulate teammates from the dugout, holding back Phillies and Marlins players in the benches-clearing brawl earlier this season, encouraging pitchers both on and off the field. He's matured a lot since 2005. Just wondering.... has Cabrera ever done anything bad in his life in your eyes? Well, considering my name is Cabrerafan, I can't possibly think badly of him, can I? :mischief Seriously, though, of course he has. His behavior in 2005 was inexcusable. My point was the media has ignored the accolades the whole season, focusing instead on his weight issue, and now they blow out of proportion a minor team infraction. But considering this team has lost 7 in a row, it doesn't surprise me.

The whole Cabrera-tardiness "fiasco" has been blown out of proportion by the local media, IMO. He made a mistake, he was benched, and he moved on. I think Cabrera has shown plenty of leadership qualities this season as well as last: being the first to congratulate teammates from the dugout, holding back Phillies and Marlins players in the benches-clearing brawl earlier this season, encouraging pitchers both on and off the field. He's matured a lot since 2005. Yea but these stories come about on a 7 game skid while falling into last place. Sensationalist journalism at its worst, when it's needed least. :thumbdown Exactly. And you're right FishFF: The media has nothing better to write about with the way this team is playing.

The whole Cabrera-tardiness "fiasco" has been blown out of proportion by the local media, IMO. He made a mistake, he was benched, and he moved on. I think Cabrera has shown plenty of leadership qualities this season as well as last: being the first to congratulate teammates from the dugout, holding back Phillies and Marlins players in the benches-clearing brawl earlier this season, encouraging pitchers both on and off the field. He's matured a lot since 2005.

Gonzo's homer in Game 4, followed by Miggy's 2-run shot vs. Clemens.

Uggla's got good power, but he needs to get the batting average up, and his approach with runners on base is poor.

For me, choosing an MVP is a complicated calculus, but I wouldn't hesitate to use team success as a tiebreaker when choosing between two roughly equivalent players. Limiting the voting to only playoff-bound players is ridiculous, though. If any one player has clearly had a better season than everyone else, he should be MVP. That isn't the case with either Marlin, though, so neither is going to win (nor should they). As a side note, if I have two equivalent players, one on the best team in the league, and one on a team that just sneaks into the playoffs, I would give the MVP to the player on the best team without hesitation. I understand the argument given by those who would do it the other way around, but I disagree with it wholeheartedly. The goal is to be the best, not to sneak into the playoffs. I agree with you, and the perfect example of that is Sammy Sosa -- whose Cubs made it to the playoffs -- beating out Mark McGwire in 1998. But who is having a better offensive season than Cabrera in the NL? Fielder, who appears to be the leading candidate, has lots of homers (39), but Cabs is batting 50 points higher than him, has a better OPS & on-base percentage, & is nearly equal to him in RBIs. And, if you want to use sabremetrics, Cabrera's VORP is 65.6; Prince's is 52. I'll also throw in that Cabrera is batting .357 w/ RISP; Prince is at .248. My point is Cabrera (and Hanley) should be considered; I don't expect either one of them to win. Perhaps Miggy could win the Hank Aaron Award, along with the Silver Slugger.

This question is for Junior or others who say that the MVP shouldn't come from a losing team. Hypothetically, let's imagine two talented players on two different teams. For the sake of argument, Player A's team would be a 59 win team without Player A. With him, they are a 70 win team. Now, Player B's team would be a 80 win team without Player B. With him, they are an 88 win team and end up winning the Wild Card. So, Player A gives his team an additional 11 wins and Player B gives his team an additional 8 wins. However, by your criteria, Player B ought to be the MVP because he elevated his team from a non-playoff team to a playoff team. However, here's where I have a problem with that line of thinking. By giving the MVP to Player B, you give Player B credit for things he has no control over, mainly the quality of the players around him. Suppose that in a parallel universe everything remained the same except that a league average reliever on Team B gets injured at the beginning of the season and gets replaced with a AAA call-up. That call-up blows 3 games the other reliever wouldn't have, and now Team B finds itself 2-3 games short of a Wild Card berth. If we go by your reasoning, Player B is no longer an MVP because his team came short of the playoffs. But, it's hard to argue that an injury to a reliever can make another player less valuable. He still hit and fielded the same. Yet, somehow his value is diminished in the eyes of many because his team has become less relevant. That just seems really weird to me. (Mind you, I'm not making the case for Player B. I'm just using this thought experiment to show that Player A should have won the MVP to begin with) In my mind, you can't penalize a guy for having to play with crappy talent and you can't reward a player for being lucky enough to have good players around him. No one player can take a really bad team and elevate them to a playoff contender. Baseball just isn't designed to allow for a single player, outside of a pitcher, to have that much impact. Great post, Crimson. :thumbup

This is the same team who won the series against the Mets in N.Y. last weekend. Amazing. And for those who were unable to watch the game, can someone explain some of the bad umpiring?

I didn't see anyone bring this point of view up, so here it goes: I don't think DeAza should have sacrificed in the 8th with runners on 1st and 2nd and 0 out because of the situation that set up the automatic intentional walk to Miggy. The worst that could have happened would be a double-play, which, given DeAza's speed, was unlikely. So here were some possibilities if DeAza didn't sacrifice: 1. Base hit. Either bases loaded, or runner scoring with 0 out and runners on for Cabs . 2. Ground ball that gets the runner out at second. 1 out, runners on 1st and 3rd for Cabs. 3. Short fly-ball out. Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out for Cabs. 4. Double-play. Runner on either 3rd or 2nd with 2 outs for Cabs 5. Walk. Bases loaded w/ 0 out for Cabs. 6. Hit by pitch. Bases loaded w/ 0 out for Cabs. 7. Error. Runners on base for Cabrera w/ 0 out. My point being, sacrificing in that situation is saying, "I'm leaving it up to Hammer to get the job done." Granted, Josh was 3/4 in the game at that point, but I would think a team would want to do everything possible to avoid the intentional walk to their best hitter in a crucial situation, especially since the Marlins have struggled with runners on 3rd and less than 2 out. The ironic part about it, and Tommy mentioned this during the broadcast, is if Uggla were batting behind Cabrera, DeAza probably wouldn't have sacrificed. Who would have thought a slumping hitter batting behind Cabs would have actually benefitted Miguel in that situation.