http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...ahead_0930.html

The link was posted already in another thread by gomarlins 9703 but these comments merit closer attention

 

Front office titles shuffle

By JOE CAPOZZI

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Sunday, September 30, 2007

 

NEW YORK ? Dontrelle Willis could be wearing a Marlins uniform for the last time today, but he might not be alone.

 

When the front office begins its annual year-end organizational meetings in New York on Monday, team officials will consider major changes to the roster next year that include the possible departure of All-Star third baseman Miguel Cabrera.

 

The baseball operations staff is divided over whether to trade Cabrera this winter, but the idea has not been completely ruled out.

 

"We haven't made any of those decisions. We're going to talk about all of that,'' owner Jeffrey Loria said Saturday when asked about the futures of Willis and Cabrera.

 

Asked for his personal feelings on the pair returning to Florida in 2008, he said: "I don't have any comment about that now.''

 

Loria's silence on the issue shouldn't necessarily suggest a move is imminent. His answers came in response to questions after he'd announced the restructuring of the front office.

 

Four top executives had their contracts extended through 2015, with new titles added for three. The operations will remain the same.

 

General Manager Admin Beinfest has a new title, team president in charge of baseball operations. Assistant General Manager Mike Hill is now general manager. Vice President of player personnel Dan Jennings is now an assistant general manager. Assistant General Manager Jim Fleming retains his same title.

 

Hill becomes the third GM in Marlins history. He has been an assistant GM under Beinfest since 2002.

 

"It's definitely unusual,'' Beinfest said of the restructuring. "I think loyalty runs both ways. We all really enjoy working for Jeffrey. I think he wanted to keep his baseball executives here and we wanted to be here.''

 

They could be in for a busy off-season as they try to rebuild a team that will finish last in the National League.

 

Willis and Cabrera could command nearly $20 million in salaries combined through arbitration, but money isn't the only reason Cabrera could be moved. Some front-office leaders are concerned about his disciplinary lapses.

Other players who could be moved include left-handed starter Scott Olsen and second baseman Dan Uggla. Beinfest, following the team's long-standing policy against discussing player moves in public, would not comment other than to say, "There are no guarantees with any player.''

 

Loria said the team's main concern is to rebuild its starting pitching, which finished last in the National League because of injuries to key starters.

 

Loria said no decisions have been made on whether to raise the payroll, which was at $30.5 million when the season started.

 

Loria went out of his way to praise manager Fredi Gonzalez, who was hired in October to replace Joe Girardi, who was fired for clashing with Loria and the front office.

 

"The one thing you haven't asked me about is Fredi,'' Loria said. "Fredi did an excellent job given the troops he had. I want to emphasize that. For a first-year manager he was right there. I'm in this business as an owner close to 10 years now and I am still learning. Fredi was only a manager for his first year. He is learning. But he certainly is open to discussion, The communications were beautiful this year with everybody. We got straight shooting this year, straight shooting from the manager.''

 

Loria said about the team's efforts to get a new stadium: "There will be some news about that soon.'' He would not elaborate.

The baseball operations staff is divided over whether to trade Cabrera this winter, but the idea has not been completely ruled out.

 

 

Please fire anyone on the trade Cabrera side of this division.

 

 

Beinfest, following the team's long-standing policy against discussing player moves in public, would not comment other than to say, "There are no guarantees with any player.''

 

 

This quote makes me hate Beinfest and I wish I could tell him that the only guarantee you have is that you are NEVER going to get a baseball player as great as Miguel Cabrera again! Stop clumping talents like Hanley and Cabs into the same category as Uggla and Olsen; be a man and say it like you should: they are untouchable!

"The one thing you haven't asked me about is Fredi,'' Loria said. "Fredi did an excellent job given the troops he had. I want to emphasize that. For a first-year manager he was right there. I'm in this business as an owner close to 10 years now and I am still learning. Fredi was only a manager for his first year. He is learning. But he certainly is open to discussion, The communications were beautiful this year with everybody. We got straight shooting this year, straight shooting from the manager.''

 

So I lead the team to the wildcard race and you say I had nothing to do with it, and then come Fredi who lead the team to the basement of the division and you say he is doing an "excellent" job with his "troop" despite reporters never even ask that? Talk about bias. :thumbdown

I found the article disturbing to say the least, lt is 1997 again and the Marlins are looking for excuses to screw the few fans who have continued to follow this team through thick and thin. Why do the fans not buy tickets? We take it up the pipe everytime The fanbase will never be increased in this way. Forget the stadium this is just a classless organization

Oh I see, so when Cabrera is gone it won't be because they had no intention of signing him it will be due to "disciplinary lapses." Of course.

I'm not reading into this very much. Relax guys.

 

 

Maybe I am overreacting, but I am reading a lot into it. They are already planting the seeds to the small fan base that Cabs is gone this off season, even offering up excuses this early in the game about his "disciplinary issues". Gimme a break!

I'm not reading into this very much. Relax guys.

 

 

Maybe I am overreacting, but I am reading a lot into it. They are already planting the seeds to the small fan base that Cabs is gone this off season, even offering up excuses this early in the game about his "disciplinary issues". Gimme a break!

I in full agreement this is not an article to be taken lightly in fact its heart wrenching

Willis probably won't be traded even.

Willis will not be traded because they will not get equal value but Cabs is a whole different issue

Please fire anyone on the trade Cabrera side of this division.

I concur.

disciplinary lapses=Loria doesnt want to pay him, and most likely never has had any intention of doing so.

 

The Samson comments on Ichiro a few months ago seemed to me to be nothing more than Samson being the mouthpiece for Loria, basically throwing it out there that he had no intentions of even attempting to sign Cabs long term.

 

This is more of the same.

A couple of comments:

 

1) Why in the name of God would reporters be fixating on these questions during a press conference regarding extensions for front office personnel and the "Do you still beat your wife?" thing, asking questions that they know they will not get answers to about specific ballplayers and running with them to their laptops to prepare their Cabs, Willis, Olsen and Uggla are gone stories on the eve of the biggest game of the season for the Marlins?

 

I think it speaks volumes that the media decided on this day to do this. And anyone who thinks they don't collude is wrong. It's not by accident that they're sometimes referred to as "a pack of reporters...". They colluded on the Preston Wilson story, they have on others.

 

This all could have waited until tomorrow. Without a shred of evidence this is what the players have seen reported this morning as they get up for this all-important game. While in the body of the story there appears the disclaimer "Loria's silence on the issue shouldn't necessarily suggest a move is imminent.", but the headline on the story is "Could Cabrera Be Leaving Florida?"

 

2) The media mantra seems to be (paraphrasing) "Willis and Cabrera will make $20 million between them next season" ignoring (I would submit purposely) that were they to in fact combine to take in $20 million next season it would only be a $6 million raise -combined - over this season, certainly an affordable number considering the projected increases in league shared revenue.

 

I think it's outrageous speculation on this particular day and is with forethought meant to cause havoc in the clubhouse and for me, that's unconscionable.

I agree with Marlins2003 and Penguino.

Cabrera possibly gone? No way, not with the track record of this ownership-who could possibly be so gullible as to believe a Miguel Cabrera could be traded? Loria will come up with the money to keep this once in a lifetime talent-don't worry-Can't happen. Right-tooth fairy anyone.

2003,

 

Don't misappropriate the blame from the Marlins' front office to the press just because you don't like hearing the cold truth about the team's personnel decisions. If they didn't want this situation to be an issue they could diffuse it very easily with a very simple sentence: "No, we are not trading Cabrera."

"The one thing you haven't asked me about is Fredi,'' Loria said. "Fredi did an excellent job given the troops he had. I want to emphasize that. For a first-year manager he was right there. I'm in this business as an owner close to 10 years now and I am still learning. Fredi was only a manager for his first year. He is learning. But he certainly is open to discussion, The communications were beautiful this year with everybody. We got straight shooting this year, straight shooting from the manager.''

 

So I lead the team to the wildcard race and you say I had nothing to do with it, and then come Fredi who lead the team to the basement of the division and you say he is doing an "excellent" job with his "troop" despite reporters never even ask that? Talk about bias. :thumbdown

LOL

The team finished in 4th place last year, and 5th place this year. Both years I believe with win totals in the 70s. Not to mention the fact of all the injuries and collapse of starting pitching. No body has any business bragging about either years performance.

I don't have a huge problem with trading Willis, as long as they get decent value in return.

 

However, I am NOT in favor of them even thinking about considering to trade Miguel. He is the best hitter this franchise has ever had, by far. Losing him before he was even close to free agency would remove whatever shred of dignity and respect that this franchise has left.

Flux, my concerns were two-fold. First the timing considering the importance of today's game, and two, using half the story (regarding next year's possible $20 million salary) to fallaciously making their point, knowing they weren't going to get answers to their questions before they asked them.

 

That said, I understand completely what you're saying but I find it hard to believe an intelligent fellow like yourself would really expect answers to those questions, especially while baseball is still being played. Yes, we all want to hear them, and if they asked those same questions two days from now I wouldn't have a problem in the world with these columns being written.

I'm not saying that I expect answers. I just don't want the ownership group given a free ride from tough questions. If they want to run their team in this manner, they should have to constantly address it.

:cheers BTW, so much for my concern :brigginbounce

Why would we trade Uggla? He's making the league minimum, or is that too expensive for us now?

Why is automatically assumed that Willis' trade value will continue to decline? What about the very real possibility that a change in pitching coaches will have a dramatic effect on his perfomance in 2008.

 

 

 

I may eat crow on this but I think it's highly naive for anyone to think that Loria is going to give Cabrera the ginormous contract that he will inevitably demand (and rightfully deserve).

I agree. Hopefully Loria will pretend to be a real owner and actually dish out some cash. If they trade Cabrera, there are going to be NO fans. It's ridiculous that they can't keep any players. How can they expect fans to embrace this team when it's bascially a farm team, harvesting players until they're good and then letting them go?

I'm glad we'll entertain trading a player whose off-field transgressions really hampered his play in 2007...right DUI-Train and Scotty-O?

This quote makes me hate Beinfest and I wish I could tell him that the only guarantee you have is that you are NEVER going to get a baseball player as great as Miguel Cabrera again! Stop clumping talents like Hanley and Cabs into the same category as Uggla and Olsen; be a man and say it like you should: they are untouchable!

 

Except that we have one, right now. Don't get me wrong, trading Miggy is a bad idea, but lets not overstate it.

Trading Miguel would be a huge mistake, because you'll never get back one player on his level.

 

That said, this is the perfect time to trade Miguel. In all honesty, we easily have one of the most talented offensive clubs in the game. If you trade Miguel, you're going to get ANYTHING your heart desires. Two years into the mix, we now know exactly what we have in all of our weapons. If you trade Miguel, you fill up ANY and ALL holes this team has, and you still have Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, Jeremy Hermida, Josh Willingham, and even Mike Jacobs to round out the heart of the order... And if Jeremy can produce the numbers that we're all now certain he can (.290, 30, 100), you won't miss a beat in the batting order... You'd still have three 30+ homer guys.