Tee Ball Bunt Machine Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Just throwing out more CF options for peoples opinions - and I point out the 2 following players since their clubs seem to not want them. #1 - Ryan Church - The Nats are going with Logan and so again, Church wil not get a starting job. While DC has been unwilling to trade within the division in the past, usually that is with players they think highly of and would otherwise like to retain (Soriano, Cordero). If they actually want to get rid of him, what's the opinon of bringing him in? I know he was discussed a little bit, and the Marlins haven't shown interest, but how would he compare to our other current options. #2 - Jacque Jones - can he play CF? I know the Cubs want to move him, and his offensive #s look good (OPS of like 830), but I don't know how much of that should be attributed to playing in Wrigley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 They need to be adopted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Jones plays an excellent RF...I think he could transition well. Cubs would have to eat a lot of salary which means we'd have to kick in extra spects. Cody would be an excellent platoon partner for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 We don't know that the Marlins weren't/aren't interested in Church or discussion haven't taken place. Both teams may be reluctant to help the other improve since they are divisional rivals. If the Marlins still had a Moehler or someone like that who could help the Nationals now until some of their prospects were ready, it might be easier but they need major league ready pitchers as in NOW, and the Marlins would have to give up say Nolasco or Pinto (examples only) and the possibility is guys like that can be a thorn in your side for years and years to come. Church after all is already 28 going on 29, I like the guy, I'd trade for the guy, but I think I understand why (unless a third team is involved who can trade a ML starter for a prospect or two) it isn't going to happen. Basically the Nationals aren't interested in prospects and that's what we have to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin2266 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 We don't know that the Marlins weren't/aren't interested in Church or discussion haven't taken place. Both teams may be reluctant to help the other improve since they are divisional rivals. Interesting. Beinfest has said more than once that he will trade in-division to get what he wants - it is not a factor in his mind. I can understand that viewpoint, but the opposite has merit as well, especially for a team that expects to contend and doesn't want to face (for example) Willis or Cabs on the other team 19 times a year. Bottom line - a pretender (see 2006 Marlins) is much more likely to trade a star player in-division than a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 We don't know that the Marlins weren't/aren't interested in Church or discussion haven't taken place. Both teams may be reluctant to help the other improve since they are divisional rivals. Interesting. Beinfest has said more than once that he will trade in-division to get what he wants - it is not a factor in his mind. I can understand that viewpoint, but the opposite has merit as well, especially for a team that expects to contend and doesn't want to face (for example) Willis or Cabs on the other team 19 times a year. Bottom line - a pretender (see 2006 Marlins) is much more likely to trade a star player in-division than a contender. Let's be clear...I'm just guessing. And it may be reluctance on the Nats part as well. But the truth is I have no tangible idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Church shouldn't be an everyday starter in CF (especially our expansive park), but then again, who on our roster with offensive potential plays even an average CF? No problem making an offer if it requires Mitre or some other low-upside pitcher (Nats could use them). Would not like to give up a guy like Nolasco or Pinto for someone who ceiling is likely reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I like Church a lot but I'm not sure he's a CF but then Alfredo and Ross aren't CFs either. A Church / Ross platoon would have a lot more punch than an Alfredo / Ross platoon. Church / Ross could realistically OPS .800 which would make it one of the better hitting CFs in MLB and would turn a major weakness into a strength (at least offensively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 While not the speedster we often think in CF, Church plays in RFK which has an enormous CF and has played more games at that position than any other. Last season for example, he played 51 games in CF, 14 in RF and 2 in LF (but let's face we all know who Washington's leftfielder was in 2006). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I was looking at his ML stats to see how much CF he played in the minors but couldn't find the breakdown by OF position. I don't know but maybe he played a lot of CF with the Nats out of necessity (they had noone else) and not because he's a true CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 #2 - Jacque Jones - can he play CF? I know the Cubs want to move him, and his offensive #s look good (OPS of like 830), but I don't know how much of that should be attributed to playing in Wrigley. In 2006, Wrigley was .845, away .821. Hit more HR away as well. He has drastic Metrodome/Away stats on the three year trend (.709 metrodome, .799 away), so I think it's safe to say he just needed to get out of the dome. I think Jones is an interesting name. Say Chicago is willing to eat say a third to half his salary ($9 over next two seasons) and whatever bonus payments are left over, I think he's easily worth $2-3 mil each of the next two years. Yes, we're the Marlins and that's 'expensive' but we could acquire him very low costs (trade compensation wise) and he's definitely more certain of production then all the Church/Murphy/Guitterez names being thrown around. No one is going to deal Chicago anyone good for him, so I could see us sending over just Petit or Marceaux/Winters type combo. Jones can probably play an adequate CF (has played there sparingly last few years) and he'd be an excellent stopgap. It's really not that bad of an idea for us as long as Chicago is realistic. Upton/Rocco is still a better idea, but if the price is right (preserving all of the top pitching). Why not? A lot of worse ideas. Also another thing about Jones: 2006 vs LHP .234/.261/.416 vs RHP .303/.358/.528 Three Year Trend vs LHP .226/.280/.370 vs RHP .276/.339/.487 Seems to me, giving Cody 30-40 starts in CF over him vs LHP combines into a generalized CF production of .270/.325/.475, and that's lowballing Jones batting average to career rates and knocking Cody's slugging down quite a bit. That would look real nice batting 7th. I'd imagine they'd swat 30+ HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Jacque Jones makes more than a million dollars and name is not Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis. Therefore our cheap ownership wont make a play for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Jacque Jones makes more than a million dollars and name is not Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis. Therefore our cheap ownership wont make a play for him. they would probably give Reggie another shot before getting someone like JJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 The cubs were trying to do Jason Jennings for Jones straight up guys. They would ask for Johnson or something nice for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 The cubs were trying to do Jason Jennings for Jones straight up guys. They would ask for Johnson or something nice for him Well they are absolutely crazy then for a guy who profiles as a straight up platoon OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I would ask people to look at his (Jones) positional play. He is not a CFer, certainly not in Dolphin Stadium. Aside from a few games here or there (and keep in mind he played most of his ball in the bandbox of all bandboxes, the Metrodome where CF is the equivalent of Roger Dean Stadium) he hasn't played CF since the year 2000, and even that year he played roughly 50% more games in left field than center. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding Bad choice all around. You don't give up prospects and pay at least a couple of million a year for an aging corner outfielder to play center regardless of his offensive splits (which are more than just pretty good except perhaps against LHP) We keep trying to force a square peg (Stewart, now Jones) into a round hole. Enough already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Church is an adequate CFer with an above-average arm. I'm not convinced the Nats will ever trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I would ask people to look at his (Jones) positional play. He is not a CFer, certainly not in Dolphin Stadium. Aside from a few games here or there (and keep in mind he played most of his ball in the bandbox of all bandboxes, the Metrodome where CF is the equivalent of Roger Dean Stadium) he hasn't played CF since the year 2000, and even that year he played roughly 50% more games in left field than center. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding Bad choice all around. You don't give up prospects and pay at least a couple of million a year for an aging corner outfielder to play center regardless of his offensive splits (which are more than just pretty good except perhaps against LHP) We keep trying to force a square peg (Stewart, now Jones) into a round hole. Enough already. I think it's moot because there's no way we get him, but Jones is an excellent OF (range, instincts) that makes the transition to CF probably average to above. This is what ive read from a few scouting sources. ill try to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Punisher Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 WOW I can see it now! Catcher- Olivo first base- Willingham second base-Uggla! Third Base-Cabrera Short-Hanley LF-Shannon Stewart Center-Jacque Jones RF-Hermida p-WILLIS great team on paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Seems like Phil Nevin is an unwanted man.. has he even got an offer? If we can't get a CF in a trade/FA, just give the last spot to him. Career .919 OPS vs. LHP.. if we can't improve the CF position, might as well upgrade the order vs. lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Jacque Jones can't play RF, much less CF. Church is an interesting guy. Seems like Phil Nevin is an unwanted man.. has he even got an offer? If we can't get a CF in a trade/FA, just give the last spot to him. Career .919 OPS vs. LHP.. if we can't improve the CF position, might as well upgrade the order vs. lefties. Nevin is a scumbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Church shouldn't be an everyday starter in CF (especially our expansive park), but then again, who on our roster with offensive potential plays even an average CF? Eric Reed plays a mean centerfield... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Altamonte Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Church shouldn't be an everyday starter in CF (especially our expansive park), but then again, who on our roster with offensive potential plays even an average CF? Eric Reed plays a mean centerfield... Wild Card Sham did say with offensive potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Reed has a sliver of potential. He could be a poor mans Juan Pierre with twice the defense someday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchoftheday Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Reed has a sliver of potential. He could be a poor mans Juan Pierre with twice the defense someday... I dont think the problem is the defense, I think the problem is actually hitting the ball with his bat, not even putting the ball in play, just hitting it would be a major breakthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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