Eddie Altamonte Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 This Loria ownership has done so many things to show how classless and despicable they are in reality but the worse is tarnishing Cabrera's reputation, he is widely being compared to Manny Ramirez and very unfairly. Cabrera has played his heart out on the diamond, he has made mistakes mostly because he was not in the best playing shape but he did work hard to get better The following Sporting News article is a product of the FO's labor and it is an outrage http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=311760 Miguel being Miguel not the right match for the Marlins November 29, 2007 Sean Deveney Last spring, Marlins pitcher Dontrelle Willis described third baseman Miguel Cabrera as "our Manny Ramirez." He meant that as a compliment, of course -- Ramirez, like Cabrera a righthanded hitter, is among the best sluggers in the game, the cleanup cornerstone of two World Series champions. Cabrera is only 24 but already has earned four trips to the All-Star Game. Through his first four full seasons, Cabrera compares closely with Ramirez, who through the same period averaged 33.8 home runs and 113.0 RBIs. For Cabrera: 31.5 homers and 115.3 RBIs. Says one National League scout of Cabrera: "He is one of the most pure hitters available and a difference-maker. He is like Tony Perez, with his ability to use the whole field. He has one of the best righthanded swings I have ever seen." Sounds like someone a young team like Florida would love to build around. But when the baseball world descends on Nashville for the annual winter meetings next week, no name will be more prominent than Cabrera's, especially among a trio of power-starved West Coast teams -- the Dodgers, Angels and Giants. Despite his bat, the Marlins have placed Cabrera atop the league's trading block. The problem for the Marlins is that the Cabrera-Ramirez comparison is apt beyond the numbers. The production is undeniable, but so are the peripheral issues. Teammates and Marlins officials have long grumbled about Cabrera's reputation for late nights, and the generous expansion of his waistline makes him bettersuited for first base, the scout says. Team officials publicly criticized Cabrera for missing a fan meet-and-greet last winter, though Cabrera said he was in Venezuela with his father, who was ill. And there's the matter of salary. Cabrera is expected to top $10 million in arbitration this year and could reach $15 million in 2009. The Red Sox willingly tolerate Ramirez's fluctuations because as he has matured, he has become increasingly serious about his work, keeping his body in shape and ramping up his study of opposing pitchers. The Marlins might be willing to keep Cabrera if they knew for sure he would soon reach a similar balance -- lose weight, become a better third baseman, get a little more sleep and show up for team functions. Cabrera very well could do those things. As he gets older, he almost certainly will. But the Marlins can't be sure, and for a team expecting a payroll in the $30 million range, Florida can't afford uncertainty. Thus, team president Admin Beinfest discussed Cabrera with 10 teams at the general managers meetings, saying, "We have good players, and good players are always in need. I'm not talking about Cabrera specifically, or Willis or Dan Uggla. But when you trade good players, you want really good players in return." The list of Cabrera suitors shrank after Boston re-signed third baseman Mike Lowell and the Yankees agreed on the framework of a deal with Alex Rodriguez. Cabrera is the most attractive offensive player available, and early reports indicated the Marlins' asking price (three or even four top young players) was exorbitantly high. One general manager, though, says, "That might have been a starting point, but that's unrealistic. Whoever gets him is probably going to give up two top prospects, and maybe one or two more marginal guys." It's always risky to give up young players. The questions around Cabrera only make it more risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlummoxedLummox Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 The FO started leaking the "Cabrera is lazy and irresponsible" stories to decrease his arbitration value. I think it fitting that the story has sprouted legs and will bite them in the ass as they attempt to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 The ownership is a joke tell me something I don't already know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strike 3 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 The FO started leaking the "Cabrera is lazy and irresponsible" stories to decrease his arbitration value. I think it fitting that the story has sprouted legs and will bite them in the ass as they attempt to trade him. I agree, this is total crap. We all know this trade is only about money. And yeah, bad mouthing the guy you're trying to trade is just brilliant. I'm sure all players find it very endearing that this FO is so classy in it's attempts to justify how it operates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louiecastillo1 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Samson and Loria are just as evil as Huizenga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 well maybe if Cabs didn't stay out drinking, he wouldn't be such a lardass over at third base and it's just awesome how he is out there busting his ass to get in shape now that he knows he is going to a new team just lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Altamonte Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Altamonte Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Ramirez doesn't hurt his team but leaves you scratching your head many times. Don't get me wrong Ramirez isn't like Carl Everett who was a total nutjob, but he is often a bonehead. Nice guy though from everything i hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Ramirez doesn't hurt his team but leaves you scratching your head many times. Don't get me wrong Ramirez isn't like Carl Everett who was a total nutjob, but he is often a bonehead. Nice guy though from everything i hear So what is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Ramirez doesn't hurt his team but leaves you scratching your head many times. Don't get me wrong Ramirez isn't like Carl Everett who was a total nutjob, but he is often a bonehead. Nice guy though from everything i hear So what is the problem? playing the game with an mp3 player in his ear? being lazy? lolligager at times??? You can be nice and still be lazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfish Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Cabrera is responsible for his reputation. Loria didn't stuff his face so that he would get fat and slow (or slower). The team didn't make him stay out late and arrive late for games. The FO didn't ask him to miss Fan Fest. Other teams notice these things when it hits the papers or they find out on their own. I've never seen a player talk so much between pitches to the opposing team third base coach or with the opponents' dugout as Cabrera does. This has to affect his concentration on the field. On the other hand, there is no question of his abilities to hit the ball and his tremendous offensive value, which outweigh (no pun intended) by far his deficiencies. So don't worry. Sooner or later we will trade him and get what we want in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Cabrera is responsible for his reputation. Loria didn't stuff his face so that he would get fat and slow (or slower). The team didn't make him stay out late and arrive late for games. The FO didn't ask him to miss Fan Fest. Other teams notice these things when it hits the papers or they find out on their own. I've never seen a player talk so much between pitches to the opposing team third base coach or with the opponents' dugout as Cabrera does. This has to affect his concentration on the field. On the other hand, there is no question of his abilities to hit the ball and his tremendous offensive value, which outweigh (no pun intended) by far his deficiencies. So don't worry. Sooner or later we will trade him and get what we want in return. well said. It's painful to see how fat Cabrera has become. It's funny because you don't see those annoying 14 year old girls MiGgY's_WiFeY and crew around anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Seems to me a) Ramp's FanFish's perspective is correct and b) I'm sure someone would love to prove me wrong but I don't remember any (don't call me a liar for one) comments about Cabrera coming from ownership (Loria or Samson), and the very very few there have been have been attributed to the FO were addressing his weight issue, but sheesh even Guillen tried to intercede to get the guy back on track. Most of these comments that have been published have been third hand accounts, or quoting "a source with..." that someone else reported and picked up here after the fact. As for this particular reporter I suspect he's never seen a Marlins game, never spoken to Cabrera or the front office, and regurgitating the same stuff that's been in the press since Scott Boras' strike team started spreading accusations (as has been widely reported) about Miggy at the GM's meeting in an effort to devalue him while seeking to get ARod a new contract. Most of this stuff has its genesis there. I believe the "nightlife thing" really has to do with happening in Venezuela with his dad one night in the street outside some club. For all the South Beach inferences linked to Miggy in the "foreign" media and local newspapers and magazines (Ocean Drive, 944, etc.) runs tons of pages every issue of clubbing celebrities and sports stars, many of whom are in MLB and I don't remember any pics of Cabrera popping up. Which is not to say where there's smoke there's no fire. But I don't think there's a conspiracy of silence not only among local sport reporters AND local celeb paparazzi types who haunt South Beach. They have different agendas. The weight issue is real. But as Ramp FanFish said the FO wasn't force-feeding the guy. He's been in town, left, came back and I'm not sure where he is now, but I remain stunned no newspaper or the Sporting News who have photogs on the payroll in Miami, or CNN/SI ditto, and the rest, no one has gotten a recent picture of the guy. And I have to wonder why that is? Lastly, it's not an "article", it's a "column", it is one person's opinion based on whatever prejudices he has, what he had for breakfast, or anything he feels like opining. Nowhere is it written that columnists have to adhere to the truth or come close to it, it's the ramblings of one person who happens to be well-trained in using the language. What we really have here is an ethno-racist column based on the belief that all latins are the same or they are easily grouped together because they have some thing in common, no matter that it's only a fraction of the total man. Sean Deveney, that sounds Irish and you know what they say about the Irish. "What's the difference", the joke goes, "between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake? One less drunk". ***I think that applies here.*** ***Stereotypes are stereotypes regardless of enthncity*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Altamonte Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Seems to me a) Ramp's FanFish's perspective is correct and b) I'm sure someone would love to prove me wrong but I don't remember any (don't call me a liar for one) comments about Cabrera coming from ownership (Loria or Samson), and the very very few there have been have been attributed to the FO were addressing his weight issue, but sheesh even Guillen tried to intercede to get the guy back on track. Most of these comments that have been published have been third hand accounts, or quoting "a source with..." that someone else reported and picked up here after the fact. As for this particular reporter I suspect he's never seen a Marlins game, never spoken to Cabrera or the front office, and regurgitating the same stuff that's been in the press since Scott Boras' strike team started spreading accusations (as has been widely reported) about Miggy at the GM's meeting in an effort to devalue him while seeking to get ARod a new contract. Most of this stuff has its genesis there. I believe the "nightlife thing" really has to do with happening in Venezuela with his dad one night in the street outside some club. For all the South Beach inferences linked to Miggy in the "foreign" media and local newspapers and magazines (Ocean Drive, 944, etc.) runs tons of pages every issue of clubbing celebrities and sports stars, many of whom are in MLB and I don't remember any pics of Cabrera popping up. Which is not to say where there's smoke there's no fire. But I don't think there's a conspiracy of silence not only among local sport reporters AND local celeb paparazzi types who haunt South Beach. They have different agendas. The weight issue is real. But as Ramp FanFish said the FO wasn't force-feeding the guy. He's been in town, left, came back and I'm not sure where he is now, but I remain stunned no newspaper or the Sporting News who have photogs on the payroll in Miami, or CNN/SI ditto, and the rest, no one has gotten a recent picture of the guy. And I have to wonder why that is? Lastly, it's not an "article", it's a "column", it is one person's opinion based on whatever prejudices he has, what he had for breakfast, or anything he feels like opining. Nowhere is it written that columnists have to adhere to the truth or come close to it, it's the ramblings of one person who happens to be well-trained in using the language. What we really have here is an ethno-racist column based on the belief that all latins are the same or they are easily grouped together because they have some thing in common, no matter that it's only a fraction of the total man. Sean Deveney, that sounds Irish and you know what they say about the Irish. "What's the difference", the joke goes, "between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake? One less drunk". ***I think that applies here.*** ***Stereotypes are stereotypes regardless of enthncity*** Faiir enough 2003, I can't argue with anything except to point out tha alot of this was leaked by the Loria camp to save themselves a few bucks, it was unjustified then and it is uncalled for now. BTW I do rectify my original posting, yes this is a column Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Ramirez doesn't hurt his team but leaves you scratching your head many times. Don't get me wrong Ramirez isn't like Carl Everett who was a total nutjob, but he is often a bonehead. Nice guy though from everything i hear So what is the problem? playing the game with an mp3 player in his ear? being lazy? lolligager at times??? You can be nice and still be lazy ....except he isn't? Manny's media created demeanor doesn't effect himself or his teammates in any negative fashion. Cabrera is young as hell, I think he has taken far too much crap for coming in to his own as a star and a man on a very young team. Not a good circumstance for a kid who lives in Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orisha Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 as long as he goes 2 for 3 with a homer and two walks he can go out and drink and gain weight and make 20 errors in third base. there's nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iFesta Touch Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 as long as he goes 2 for 3 with a homer and two walks he can go out and drink and gain weight and make 20 errors in third base. there's nothing wrong with that. He'll be out of baseball in a few years if he continues on his current path. He projects to be near 300 lbs in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 ...I can't argue with anything except to point out tha alot of this was leaked by the Loria camp to save themselves a few bucks, it was unjustified then and it is uncalled for now. BTW I do rectify my original posting, yes this is a column The only problem here is, at least for me, and we get into that my POV vs your POV thing is, we can guess who leaked what, or if there was even a leak (a reporter finally breaking his silence regarding something he knows is not necessarity a "leak") but we don't know if it was ownership, the FO, a disgruntled coach or someone scouting this team or others who "heard" something. We disagree on Loria and I'm not going there, in fact I'd like to avoid it, but I cannot see why an intelligent guy like Loria would purposely diminish the value of Cabrera because not only does he get less in return, he makes it harder to even move him. You can hate Loria, you can believe he's a horrible owner, you can believe he's pocketing $50 million a year but if he is doing the latter he has to be pretty smart to have pulled it off and not gotten caught by anyone, and if he's greedy, it makes no sense that he would bad-mouth Miggy because all it does is put less money in HIS pocket. There seems to be this belief (not necessarily with you) that everything is spontaneous, immediate with the Marlins. I bet the organization internally have been talking for more than a year, maybe two about what to do as Cabrera approaches the last years of arbitration I'm praying this doesn't start a day of Loria conspiracy theories and hate-mongering because the issue at hand is Miggy vs Manny as perceived by this writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrimsonCane Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What in the world is unfair about being compared to Manny? Did Manny break the law or something sometime that I don't know about? All I know about is the work ethic, desire, love of the game and his teammates that has paved the way to his HOF plaque once he is eligible. Fox I love the Red Sox and hard to believe I love the Indians as well so I have followed Manny Ramirez for many years now. The term loose canon maybe a little strong but he is a headcase, and can be a real bonehead sometimes. Awesome player without a doubt but can drive you crazy sometimes. Cabrera is nothing like that The point you are missing though is that even if he is a "headcase" (he's not) so freakin' what?!?? His team wins and he puts up great numbers on a consistent basis. Ramirez doesn't hurt his team but leaves you scratching your head many times. Don't get me wrong Ramirez isn't like Carl Everett who was a total nutjob, but he is often a bonehead. Nice guy though from everything i hear Having to scratch head + Wins + World Series rings > Itch-free scalp + More Losses + Less rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherrealfan Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 This Loria ownership has done so many things to show how classless and despicable they are in reality but the worse is tarnishing Cabrera's reputation, he is widely being compared to Manny Ramirez and very unfairly. Cabrera has played his heart out on the diamond, he has made mistakes mostly because he was not in the best playing shape but he did work hard to get better The following Sporting News article is a product of the FO's labor and it is an outrage http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=311760 Miguel being Miguel not the right match for the Marlins November 29, 2007 Sean Deveney The Marlins might be willing to keep Cabrera if they knew for sure he would soon reach a similar balance -- lose weight, become a better third baseman, get a little more sleep and show up for team functions. Cabrera very well could do those things. As he gets older, he almost certainly will. But the Marlins can't be sure, and for a team expecting a payroll in the $30 million range, Florida can't afford uncertainty. Out of the whole column, this paragraph about the "marlins might be willing to keep Cabrera..." clearly indicates that the writer does not have a clue about how this organization works. Does anyone really believe this is about the team worrying about spending money on a player because he has gotten heavy and has had "allegedly" some behavior issues? Miggy could be a model citizen-this would be the same thing happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotcorner Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Having to scratch head + Wins + World Series rings > Itch-free scalp + More Losses + Less rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Seems to me a) Ramp's FanFish's perspective is correct and b) I'm sure someone would love to prove me wrong but I don't remember any (don't call me a liar for one) comments about Cabrera coming from ownership (Loria or Samson), and the very very few there have been have been attributed to the FO were addressing his weight issue, but sheesh even Guillen tried to intercede to get the guy back on track. Most of these comments that have been published have been third hand accounts, or quoting "a source with..." that someone else reported and picked up here after the fact. As for this particular reporter I suspect he's never seen a Marlins game, never spoken to Cabrera or the front office, and regurgitating the same stuff that's been in the press since Scott Boras' strike team started spreading accusations (as has been widely reported) about Miggy at the GM's meeting in an effort to devalue him while seeking to get ARod a new contract. Most of this stuff has its genesis there. I believe the "nightlife thing" really has to do with happening in Venezuela with his dad one night in the street outside some club. For all the South Beach inferences linked to Miggy in the "foreign" media and local newspapers and magazines (Ocean Drive, 944, etc.) runs tons of pages every issue of clubbing celebrities and sports stars, many of whom are in MLB and I don't remember any pics of Cabrera popping up. Which is not to say where there's smoke there's no fire. But I don't think there's a conspiracy of silence not only among local sport reporters AND local celeb paparazzi types who haunt South Beach. They have different agendas. The weight issue is real. But as Ramp FanFish said the FO wasn't force-feeding the guy. He's been in town, left, came back and I'm not sure where he is now, but I remain stunned no newspaper or the Sporting News who have photogs on the payroll in Miami, or CNN/SI ditto, and the rest, no one has gotten a recent picture of the guy. And I have to wonder why that is? Lastly, it's not an "article", it's a "column", it is one person's opinion based on whatever prejudices he has, what he had for breakfast, or anything he feels like opining. Nowhere is it written that columnists have to adhere to the truth or come close to it, it's the ramblings of one person who happens to be well-trained in using the language. What we really have here is an ethno-racist column based on the belief that all latins are the same or they are easily grouped together because they have some thing in common, no matter that it's only a fraction of the total man. Sean Deveney, that sounds Irish and you know what they say about the Irish. "What's the difference", the joke goes, "between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake? One less drunk". ***I think that applies here.*** ***Stereotypes are stereotypes regardless of enthncity*** I don't get this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Punisher Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Cabrera is responsible for his reputation. Loria didn't stuff his face so that he would get fat and slow (or slower). The team didn't make him stay out late and arrive late for games. The FO didn't ask him to miss Fan Fest. Other teams notice these things when it hits the papers or they find out on their own. I've never seen a player talk so much between pitches to the opposing team third base coach or with the opponents' dugout as Cabrera does. This has to affect his concentration on the field. On the other hand, there is no question of his abilities to hit the ball and his tremendous offensive value, which outweigh (no pun intended) by far his deficiencies. So don't worry. Sooner or later we will trade him and get what we want in return. well said. It's painful to see how fat Cabrera has become. It's funny because you don't see those annoying 14 year old girls MiGgY's_WiFeY and crew around anymore. LOL I remember that! I hated going to the games and hearing those little girls scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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