June 8, 200818 yr I suggest either trading Jacobs for some pitching help, moving Willingham to first when he gets back. Or Trade Cantu to the American League (his value will never be higher). The only problem is that the potential replacements for Jorge are rather weak or untested.
June 8, 200818 yr I would love to have Edwin Encarnacion on this team, believe it or not. I keep thinking that every time we see the Reds. He would be the perfect fit at third base: Young, cheap, still has potential, + power and defensively he might be one of the best for years to come at third base. I wonder what it would take to get him, as the Reds don't seem too high on him, I remember him in a couple of trade rumors last year.
June 8, 200818 yr idk about trading mike jacobs, but if we do we could call up Gaby Sanchez Who is at best equal to Mike Jacobs in the hitting department and at best only slightly worse than Mike Jacobs defensively. So yea, Gaby is not the answer.
June 8, 200818 yr There is no immediate answer to the defensive situation right now, imo. It is what it is...you have to hope Cantu will keep pace with his bat, and hopefully gets a bit better at 3B. And hope No Range can give us 25-30 HR's (staying healthy)...with Helms being a defensive replacement in the late innings. Helms made a boo-boo tonight, but he's been solid, in that department for the most part. As a matter of fact, he did rob Jay Bruce of a 2B tonight, as well. It is what it is. An option could be...the same thing we do at 1B with Helms in the late innings, can be done with Amezaga, at 3B. The good news is, our middle infield, imo, has improved dramatically over the past month or so, defensively. They're becoming pretty reliable. Hanley made some nice plays tonight.
June 8, 200818 yr There is no immediate answer to the defensive situation right now, imo. It is what it is...you have to hope Cantu will keep pace with his bat, and hopefully gets a bit better at 3B. And hope No Range can give us 25-30 HR's (staying healthy)...with Helms being a defensive replacement in the late innings. Helms made a boo-boo tonight, but he's been solid, in that department for the most part. As a matter of fact, he did rob Jay Bruce of a 2B tonight, as well. It is what it is. An option could be...the same thing we do at 1B with Helms in the late innings, can be done with Amezaga, at 3B. The good news is, our middle infield, imo, has improved dramatically over the past month or so, defensively. They're becoming pretty reliable. Hanley made some nice plays tonight. As he proved tonight, Cantu does more bad than good for this team. Trade him to a hitter hungry AL team for a pitching prospect and put Uggla at third and Amezaga at second. By replacing him with Amezaga, you give up a little bit of power at the plate but the defensive upgrade is gargantuan.
June 8, 200818 yr There is no immediate answer to the defensive situation right now, imo. It is what it is...you have to hope Cantu will keep pace with his bat, and hopefully gets a bit better at 3B. And hope No Range can give us 25-30 HR's (staying healthy)...with Helms being a defensive replacement in the late innings. Helms made a boo-boo tonight, but he's been solid, in that department for the most part. As a matter of fact, he did rob Jay Bruce of a 2B tonight, as well. It is what it is. An option could be...the same thing we do at 1B with Helms in the late innings, can be done with Amezaga, at 3B. The good news is, our middle infield, imo, has improved dramatically over the past month or so, defensively. They're becoming pretty reliable. Hanley made some nice plays tonight. As he proved tonight, Cantu does more bad than good for this team. Trade him to a hitter hungry AL team for a pitching prospect and put Uggla at third and Amezaga at second. By replacing him with Amezaga, you give up a little bit of power at the plate but the defensive upgrade is gargantuan. As he proved tonight? Yes, he made an error...but c'mon now...Helms' error was just as big. Plus, Cantu did cost us, you can say, 4 runs, defensively, but his HR counts for 1, and without his 2B in the 9th, there is no Cody Ross AB. You have to take that into account, as well. He did start the rally. I mean, trading him to an AL team, for a B level prospect wouldn't be bad... btw, lets just say we do trade him... wouldn't it be better to leave Uggla at 2B, and bring up McPherson to play 3B, if it gets to that point? Or Coghlan, perhaps?
June 8, 200818 yr As he proved tonight? Yes, he made an error...but c'mon now...Helms' error was just as big. I'm thinking about the bigger picture. Helms starting is just for the meantime. Thank God. Plus, Cantu did cost us, you can say, 4 runs, defensively, but his HR counts for 1, and without his 2B in the 9th, there is no Cody Ross AB. You have to take that into account, as well. He did start the rally. So he homered. Yay. That still puts him at -3 runs for the game. And the double he got in the 9th should have easily been a triple. Yeah, luckily he ultimately got to third anyways but if Helms doesn't move him over, Cordero takes a completely different approach to Uggla, who he pitched around. If he's not standing on third, it may never have gotten to Ross. btw, lets just say we do trade him... wouldn't it be better to leave Uggla at 2B, and bring up McPherson to play 3B, if it gets to that point? Or Coghlan, perhaps? I'm not too high on McPherson because I don't think he's much better than Cantu defensively and he's yet to live up to his potential at the plate as far as the bigs go. Uggla also has a 4.93 career RF. I don't know if Coghlan's ready, either. Amezaga at 2B would be the best sure thing part time fix. I wouldn't necessarily be against seeing Coghlan get some starts, though.
June 8, 200818 yr Speaking of trading Cantu, if we're going to trade him, I wonder if we can sell him as a 2B to other teams, which would raise his trade value.
June 8, 200818 yr Cantu has made some beautiful plays over there. Of course when any player gets on the bad side of posters on this board it is the unwritten rule that if you can't say something bad then don't say anything at all. 13 errors, yea... But how many of those wouldn't be errors if we had a guy at 1B that was at least an average fielder? Almost all of them are throwing errors and some of those should have been caught. He's never going to be a GG or SS nominee but he is learning the position. What I like about him is what never gets commented on by even the broadcasters. Smart baseball moves. Like letting a ball get by because Hanley has the better angle for the DP. Or letting a ball roll. Cantu is still just a stop gap. He's here at least for this season. Deal with it. Jake seems to be back slideing(sp). His bat was doing fine, his glove was really coming around nicely, and then the past week or two... WHAM...The Jake of old. That PH last night was a prime example. Pitcher having a hard time throwing strikes and yet Jake Ks on what looked to me from my viewpoint was 3 out of the zone pitches. But he's probably here for the rest of this season too. Only because the FO stated long before this season started that this is a building/learning year. So I see no big trades happening for us. Most likely the team you see on the field now is the team you will see on the field the last game of the season. So complain away. But it is what it is.
June 8, 200818 yr I'm not sure that I understand the logic that all four unearned runs were Cantu's fault when with two outs his error allowed ONE run to score but it was Helms subsequent error that allowed the next THREE in. Most of course loathe Cantu here and put Helms on a pedestal so the former takes the fall while the latter gets a free pass.
June 8, 200818 yr I'm not sure that I understand the logic that all four unearned runs were Cantu's fault when with two outs his error allowed ONE run to score but it was Helms subsequent error that allowed the next THREE in. Most of course loathe Cantu here and put Helms on a pedestal so the former takes the fall while the latter gets a free pass. Does Helms have a chance to make his error if Cantu makes his routine play?
June 8, 200818 yr I'm not sure that I understand the logic that all four unearned runs were Cantu's fault when with two outs his error allowed ONE run to score but it was Helms subsequent error that allowed the next THREE in. Most of course loathe Cantu here and put Helms on a pedestal so the former takes the fall while the latter gets a free pass. Does Helms have a chance to make his error if Cantu makes his routine play? It's irrelevant. Helms made an error. Cost the team three unearned runs. You can play "what-if" all you want. The scorecard reflects a three run error on Helms' part.
June 8, 200818 yr Why is Jacobs brought up in this topic? I think Jacobs has gotten a lot better defensively this season. I mean sure, he makes some mistakes but he has improved. Helms error was a bad error, and so was Cantu's. So if you're going to blame one, you can't ignore the other. It isn't ok to make an error just because a guy made one right before you. Heck, I think it's worse to make an error after another teammate has just made an error.
June 8, 200818 yr You have to consider what effect some of those error has on the pitching staff. Think about this game yesterday, if Cantu or Helms make those plays then we probably see Olsen go 7 or 8 innings in this game and we probably go on to win without taxing our bullpen. Instead we made Olsen throw more pitches and (whether it was the right move or not) he got yanked early and we had to rely, once again, on our bullpen to pitch extended innings. It just seems like every time Cantu makes an error it really affects the pitching, like they are as frustrated with him as we are. Because for some reason every time Cantu makes an error it is magnified by the fact that the pitcher on the mound ends up giving up a hit or two after and costs us some runs. At least that is how it seems to me. I am willing to put up with it for the rest of this season, but next year we should really consider other options.
June 8, 200818 yr Why is Jacobs brought up in this topic? I think Jacobs has gotten a lot better defensively this season. I mean sure, he makes some mistakes but he has improved. Helms error was a bad error, and so was Cantu's. So if you're going to blame one, you can't ignore the other. It isn't ok to make an error just because a guy made one right before you. Heck, I think it's worse to make an error after another teammate has just made an error. Everyone makes errors and on the whole Helms has been dependable on defense. Cantu was never a very good defensive second baseman and now he's playing a position he really didn't play before this year. At least Cantu is a reliable hitter who can make contact or hit for power. Jacobs has not gotten appreciably better defensively, in fact his fielding percentage and RZR are lower than last year. What he is is an undisciplined muscle hitter who can't hit lefties, can't hit to the opposite field and is batting .176 with RISP. That is why Jacobs was brought up in this topic.
June 8, 200818 yr As he proved tonight? Yes, he made an error...but c'mon now...Helms' error was just as big. I'm thinking about the bigger picture. Helms starting is just for the meantime. Thank God. Plus, Cantu did cost us, you can say, 4 runs, defensively, but his HR counts for 1, and without his 2B in the 9th, there is no Cody Ross AB. You have to take that into account, as well. He did start the rally. So he homered. Yay. That still puts him at -3 runs for the game. And the double he got in the 9th should have easily been a triple. Yeah, luckily he ultimately got to third anyways but if Helms doesn't move him over, Cordero takes a completely different approach to Uggla, who he pitched around. If he's not standing on third, it may never have gotten to Ross. btw, lets just say we do trade him... wouldn't it be better to leave Uggla at 2B, and bring up McPherson to play 3B, if it gets to that point? Or Coghlan, perhaps? I'm not too high on McPherson because I don't think he's much better than Cantu defensively and he's yet to live up to his potential at the plate as far as the bigs go. Uggla also has a 4.93 career RF. I don't know if Coghlan's ready, either. Amezaga at 2B would be the best sure thing part time fix. I wouldn't necessarily be against seeing Coghlan get some starts, though. I think you just don't like the guy, to be honest. It happens...if I was on the board last year, you would've heard the same attitude from me, regarding Miguel Olivo. However, Cantu wouldn't have standing at 3B, regardless. That 6th run was one the Reds were willing to give up, b/c it meant nothing...risking to make the 1st out in the inning at 3B, would've made no sense since you can score from 2B on a base hit, anyways, so I really don't see how that's relevant. As I said, if not for Cantu's double, Ross doesn't get an at-bat. You can also easily say that a solo HR has lots of value in a game that turned out being a 1 run win. And as I said...it doesn't matter whether Helms is a starter or not...he still had just as much to do with the mess this team created for Olsen, last night, defensively. Bottom line.
June 8, 200818 yr I suggest either trading Jacobs for some pitching help, moving Willingham to first when he gets back. Or Trade Cantu to the American League (his value will never be higher). The only problem is that the potential replacements for Jorge are rather weak or untested. Let's end the thread. It's a stupid idea either way.
June 8, 200818 yr I'm not sure that I understand the logic that all four unearned runs were Cantu's fault when with two outs his error allowed ONE run to score but it was Helms subsequent error that allowed the next THREE in. Most of course loathe Cantu here and put Helms on a pedestal so the former takes the fall while the latter gets a free pass. I dont agree with that statement . it is like comparing apples to oranges . Cantu is an everyday starting player , Helms is a bench player . Since Helms is a bench player the expectations are much lower than that of a starting player (justifably).
June 8, 200818 yr I'm not sure that I understand the logic that all four unearned runs were Cantu's fault when with two outs his error allowed ONE run to score but it was Helms subsequent error that allowed the next THREE in. Most of course loathe Cantu here and put Helms on a pedestal so the former takes the fall while the latter gets a free pass. It's a causal chain 2003... 1 out ----- 2 outs ---- Cantu Error ---- Helms Error Helms isn't off the hook, but with 2 outs Cantu's error DEFINITELY would have prevented Helms from making his... Therefore, causally, Cantu catches the flak for starting the dominos tumbling... And, it's not as if he doesn't have a penchant for making errors, if he was a good defensive player it wouldn't be so frustrating
June 9, 200818 yr Author I suggest either trading Jacobs for some pitching help, moving Willingham to first when he gets back. Or Trade Cantu to the American League (his value will never be higher). The only problem is that the potential replacements for Jorge are rather weak or untested. Let's end the thread. It's a stupid idea either way. No its not a stupid thread. We need pitching and quite frankly we don't need both of these guys when Hammer gets back.
June 9, 200818 yr oh please... You said you didn't understand the logic, I explained the logic, just because didn't like it doesn't mean it's not true
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.