I wouldn't say Amezaga just because he won't give you the production of an everyday player

 

And Bonifacio will?

Yes. Bonifacio slumped for like a week and a half in April and he's suddenly garbage. The guy has 17 runs thus far this season(and that is his job right?), and if you look at who's around him on that list, it's not exactly bad company or some random selection. On the team itself he has the 5th best avg, but consider 2 of the guys above him (Baker & Paulino) only play against their preferred pitching, and the other 2 guys above him are the best on the team (Hanley & Cantu). I think Bonifacio is definately capable of sustaining better numbers, but even right now his numbers are nowhere near as crappy as one would think with all the complaints here. The guy has been on base 8 of his last 9 games. He's been scoring runs.

I wouldn't say Amezaga just because he won't give you the production of an everyday player

 

And Bonifacio will?

Yes. Bonifacio slumped for like a week and a half in April and he's suddenly garbage. The guy has 17 runs thus far this season(and that is his job right?), and if you look at who's around him on that list, it's not exactly bad company or some random selection. On the team itself he has the 5th best avg, but consider 2 of the guys above him (Baker & Paulino) only play against their preferred pitching, and the other 2 guys above him are the best on the team (Hanley & Cantu). I think Bonifacio is definately capable of sustaining better numbers, but even right now his numbers are nowhere near as crappy as one would think with all the complaints here. The guy has been on base 8 of his last 9 games. He's been scoring runs.

No, he was good for 1 week and has been okay for like another week, and he's suddenly good.

No.

Alfredo can play shortstop in the American League, where the DH can hit for him instead of the pitcher.

If it gets to the point where Maybin needs to be sent down then I wouldn't mind Fredo at SS, Cody in CF and Hanley in either LF or RF with Hermida in the other.

If they are going to change Hanley to another position, that is an offseason issue.

 

Agree. If his ego will take it.

 

Also I agree with something THut and Rich brought up during Friday's game. I'm not so sure The Amazing can handle it day in and day out. The way he plays I think he would wear out sooner rather than later.

If it gets to the point where Maybin needs to be sent down then I wouldn't mind Fredo at SS, Cody in CF and Hanley in either LF or RF with Hermida in the other.

If they are going to change Hanley to another position, that is an offseason issue.

A change in position is preferably an offseson issue but not necessarily as far as this FO is concerned. Think of Miguel in '03. And Hanley is a far better athlete than Miguel ever was.

 

Wasn't Miggy brought up because our 3B at the time (and then won the GG) was injured, then moved to the OF to keep his bat in the lineup after Mikey came back? Can't see how that is even remotely comparable.

 

But like I said before, I do agree with one point; if a move happens, it is an off season move.

1. Move Hanley to left field (Alfonso Soriano is one of the highest paid players in baseball & made the IF to OF move, so can Hanley)

 

2. Trade Hermida for bullpen help

 

Amezaga at short + Hanley in left = much improved defense (vs. Hermida in left and Hanley at short)

 

Sam, these guys would never want to see Hermida gone. They are still expecting Babe Ruth like numbers out of him..... someday. :whistle

 

If Amezaga could actually hit I have a feeling lazy Hanley would already be in the outfield.

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Hanley's coming back, Maybin and Bonifacio are showing improvement, if Cody and Hermida can start hitting with some frequency, and Uggla who seems to hit the ball right at someone so many times, we can have as good a May as we did April.

 

I do think the only current outfielder we'll see in 2010 is Maybin and it's only a matter of time before Hanley joins him. Cody and Hermida are expendable if that happens (assuming either Stanton or Morrison, or even Coghlan steps up this summer). Both players though hold their destinies in their hands, they both can play themselves onto or off the team by the trade deadline.

1. Move Hanley to left field (Alfonso Soriano is one of the highest paid players in baseball & made the IF to OF move, so can Hanley)

 

2. Trade Hermida for bullpen help

 

Amezaga at short + Hanley in left = much improved defense (vs. Hermida in left and Hanley at short)

 

Sam, these guys would never want to see Hermida gone. They are still expecting Babe Ruth like numbers out of him..... someday. :whistle

 

If Amezaga could actually hit I have a feeling lazy Hanley would already be in the outfield.

 

If Hermida does not produce this year, he's gone. I believe this is the last chance the front office is going to give him to show something.

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Is it really a slump if you are walking like it's going out of style? Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk? So what if his average sits around .250 if his OBP is .400. Gotta remember, maybe he's been hitless the past few games, but

 

It's been shown several times that OBP outweighs things like BA and SLG by a lot in terms of production, it's not about individual production, it's about team production, Hermida leading the league in walks is providing outstanding production for the team, which is ultimately more valuable than putting up a .270 BA. I'd be lying if I didn't say I wanted more players to slump like Hermida if that's the case.

 

So far this year he's put up a .240/.421/.425 line... even if he finishes with that, that's very much awesome... if he likely starts alternating the walks for hits and finishes closer to .270/.380/.460 or something like that, it's still awesome.

 

All this being said, he's still in the top 3 most productive hitters on the team in terms of conventionals (HR/RBI) and in the rates (OBP/OPS)... Hermida's been fine this season... And to Waxheaven there... NOBODY... ZERO PEOPLE expect Hermida to be a Manny Ramirez... even the most ardent of Hermida supporters expect Brian Giles-lite (Basically, Giles's 2004 in SD)... .270/.370/.450-ish lines

If Hermida does not produce this year, he's gone. I believe this is the last chance the front office is going to give him to show something.

 

If Hermida keeps this up... and we let him and his (potentially) .400ish OBP go because the BA was low or something lame like that... well...

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Is it really a slump if you are walking like it's going out of style? Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk? So what if his average sits around .250 if his OBP is .400. Gotta remember, maybe he's been hitless the past few games, but

 

It's been shown several times that OBP outweighs things like BA and SLG by a lot in terms of production, it's not about individual production, it's about team production, Hermida leading the league in walks is providing outstanding production for the team, which is ultimately more valuable than putting up a .270 BA. I'd be lying if I didn't say I wanted more players to slump like Hermida if that's the case.

 

So far this year he's put up a .240/.421/.425 line... even if he finishes with that, that's very much awesome... if he likely starts alternating the walks for hits and finishes closer to .270/.380/.460 or something like that, it's still awesome.

 

All this being said, he's still in the top 3 most productive hitters on the team in terms of conventionals (HR/RBI) and in the rates (OBP/OPS)... Hermida's been fine this season... And to Waxheaven there... NOBODY... ZERO PEOPLE expect Hermida to be a Manny Ramirez... even the most ardent of Hermida supporters expect Brian Giles-lite (Basically, Giles's 2004 in SD)... .270/.370/.450-ish lines

 

This deserves a poster of Joey from friends saying "Could I BE any more confusing?"

Make it happen :cool

 

I agree with all of this, FTR. Except that I do think Hermida's ceiling is maybe a bit better than .270/.370/.450. I could see something more like .280/.380/.470 (.850), but that's just me.

I agree with all of this, FTR. Except that I do think Hermida's ceiling is maybe a bit better than .270/.370/.450. I could see something more like .280/.380/.470 (.850), but that's just me.

 

Well, the thing about the ceiling is, I wasn't predicting that, but rather an expected season, he's already done an .850 OPS season, so you could take his ceiling even further by almost going .300/.400/.500 if it really behooved you to do so, because he's proven he can get close enough to .300 in a season for that to be realistic (maybe).

 

Anyways, that being said, I'm not gonna do the Friends thing :mischief

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Hanley's coming back, Maybin and Bonifacio are showing improvement, if Cody and Hermida can start hitting with some frequency, and Uggla who seems to hit the ball right at someone so many times, we can have as good a May as we did April.

 

I do think the only current outfielder we'll see in 2010 is Maybin and it's only a matter of time before Hanley joins him. Cody and Hermida are expendable if that happens (assuming either Stanton or Morrison, or even Coghlan steps up this summer). Both players though hold their destinies in their hands, they both can play themselves onto or off the team by the trade deadline.

 

Where does Coghlan figure into the OF equation? Also, no chance Stanton comes up this year, and mid-season 2010 would be a miracle. And with Morrison's injury, this team can't be rushing to dump any starting OFs, even if they are giving merely average output. I may be misunderstanding you here, though. As far as the trade deadline is concerned, I still think it's only a factor if we are falling out of contention. It would be hard to justify a trading Cody + Hanley to the outfield + Coghlan/Gaby to 3B, all in the middle of a season if we are contending in any way, shape, or form

 

By the way, I can't wait for John Dewan to explain how Hanley and Hermida are average fielders. There are going to be angry e-mailers lined up for miles.

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Is it really a slump if you are walking like it's going out of style? Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk? So what if his average sits around .250 if his OBP is .400. Gotta remember, maybe he's been hitless the past few games, but

 

It's been shown several times that OBP outweighs things like BA and SLG by a lot in terms of production, it's not about individual production, it's about team production, Hermida leading the league in walks is providing outstanding production for the team, which is ultimately more valuable than putting up a .270 BA. I'd be lying if I didn't say I wanted more players to slump like Hermida if that's the case.

 

So far this year he's put up a .240/.421/.425 line... even if he finishes with that, that's very much awesome... if he likely starts alternating the walks for hits and finishes closer to .270/.380/.460 or something like that, it's still awesome.

 

All this being said, he's still in the top 3 most productive hitters on the team in terms of conventionals (HR/RBI) and in the rates (OBP/OPS)... Hermida's been fine this season... And to Waxheaven there... NOBODY... ZERO PEOPLE expect Hermida to be a Manny Ramirez... even the most ardent of Hermida supporters expect Brian Giles-lite (Basically, Giles's 2004 in SD)... .270/.370/.450-ish lines

 

Yeah hermi can only take whats given to him but i think you want him to walk if hes up in the order such as 1-2 where hes got guys behind him like hanley, cantu, and uggla to drive him in. But if hes 6 or 7 id like more hits.

Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk?

I don't think the reason he has so many walks (3rd in the NL) is because he's getting an inordinate number of bad pitches compared to other hitters. Walks are fine but I would gladly trade-off half his walks for a couple of homers, a single and a double even if his OBP goes down by a lot with trade-off.

Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk?

I don't think the reason he has so many walks (3rd in the NL) is because he's getting an inordinate number of bad pitches compared to other hitters. Walks are fine but I would gladly trade-off half his walks for a couple of homers, a single and a double even if his OBP goes down by a lot with trade-off.

 

I alluded to that earlier, and I believe that's what's going to happen anyways... these walks are just a good sign

If Hermida was even half as fast as Bonifacio, I would be jumping up and down over how many walks he has and his OBP.

Amezaga cannot hit.

If it gets to the point where Maybin needs to be sent down then I wouldn't mind Fredo at SS, Cody in CF and Hanley in either LF or RF with Hermida in the other.

If they are going to change Hanley to another position, that is an offseason issue.

A change in position is preferably an offseson issue but not necessarily as far as this FO is concerned. Think of Miguel in '03. And Hanley is a far better athlete than Miguel ever was.

 

Wasn't Miggy brought up because our 3B at the time (and then won the GG) was injured, then moved to the OF to keep his bat in the lineup after Mikey came back? Can't see how that is even remotely comparable.

 

But like I said before, I do agree with one point; if a move happens, it is an off season move.

He was brought up to play left field for Todd Hollandsworth in May, then when Lowell went down in Sept. he played third till lowell came back and then was put back in the outfield but in right.

If Hermida was even half as fast as Bonifacio, I would be jumping up and down over how many walks he has and his OBP.

 

You should be jumping up and down regardless

As Tommy pointed out yesterday the complaint regarding Hermida is not that he isn't getting on base, but really how he is and the lack of production he brings to the team. Walks are great but in his mind JH should be driving in more runs, that's what he's paid to do. I think to some extent it's a valid complaint and its impossible to ignore the batting slump he's going through, having gone hitless five of his last seven games, his average falling nearly 50 points in the interim. But everyone goes through dry spells so I guess all we can do is hope he starts showing some of that aggressiveness at the plate we saw earlier in the season.

 

Hanley's coming back, Maybin and Bonifacio are showing improvement, if Cody and Hermida can start hitting with some frequency, and Uggla who seems to hit the ball right at someone so many times, we can have as good a May as we did April.

 

I do think the only current outfielder we'll see in 2010 is Maybin and it's only a matter of time before Hanley joins him. Cody and Hermida are expendable if that happens (assuming either Stanton or Morrison, or even Coghlan steps up this summer). Both players though hold their destinies in their hands, they both can play themselves onto or off the team by the trade deadline.

A .400 OBP is not really a 'lack of production.' That is the problem. It's fine Tommy wants Hermida to hit more, we all do, but if Hermida wants to hit .250/.400/.400 this year, I'm all for it. That OBP is outrageously valuable and that's a lot better than swinging at everything to "drive in runs" and bat like .280/.350/.450. Hermida looks good. He's swinging at good pitches, not to much out of the zone, and even when he makes out (watching the game right now, and he had a 10 pitch strikeout), he is fouling everything off and stressing the pitcher. I'm very encouraged by Hermida through 1 month, and I suspect that average starts climbing up as he's going to 'walk' his way to more strikes.

 

Our OF next year is more than likely going to be Maybin, one of Hermida/Ross, and then we'll carry two of Carroll/Raynor/Cousins/Petersen/Jai, with Bonifacio as the 5th OF. The organization is very committed to Hanley at SS and you know it. If anything, he'd move to 3B next year, they'd play Bonifacio at SS, Coghlan at 2B, sign a veteran 2B/SS/3B for cheaper than Amezaga (or keep Amezaga and let go of one of Lindstrom, Anibal, or Nunez, as there is only so much money to go around). Cantu would then keep 1B, Morrison could stay in AAA (presumably to play LF incase any of the above OF don't work out), Gaby would take Ross Gload's spot on the roster and then fight for 1B in 2011 when Cantu is gone, and that's that.

 

A move to the OF is just very very very premature, even if you may be right by the time the stadium is here and Hanley-Maybin-Stanton is the inaugural outfield.

 

Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk?

I don't think the reason he has so many walks (3rd in the NL) is because he's getting an inordinate number of bad pitches compared to other hitters. Walks are fine but I would gladly trade-off half his walks for a couple of homers, a single and a double even if his OBP goes down by a lot with trade-off.

.250/.400/.400 >>>>>>>>>> .280/.350/.450

 

Not debatable.

If Hermida was even half as fast as Bonifacio, I would be jumping up and down over how many walks he has and his OBP.

 

You should be jumping up and down regardless

 

 

I'm cool with him getting on base. But the simple fact that the people behind him haven't produced other than Cantu means that he doesn't score much. Hermida needs to get a little more assertive and try and get SOME hits.

If Hermida was even half as fast as Bonifacio, I would be jumping up and down over how many walks he has and his OBP.

 

You should be jumping up and down regardless

 

 

I'm cool with him getting on base. But the simple fact that the people behind him haven't produced other than Cantu means that he doesn't score much. Hermida needs to get a little more assertive and try and get SOME hits.

 

Two things:

 

A) What you're arguing, while reasonable, has nothing to do with Hermida not being super fast

B) The people behind him not driving him in has nothing to with Hermida

 

otherwise, yes, I too would prefer some more hits and would also prefer more overall lineup production

Is he supposed to chase bad pitches to try for a hit instead of taking the walk?

I don't think the reason he has so many walks (3rd in the NL) is because he's getting an inordinate number of bad pitches compared to other hitters. Walks are fine but I would gladly trade-off half his walks for a couple of homers, a single and a double even if his OBP goes down by a lot with trade-off.

.250/.400/.400 >>>>>>>>>> .280/.350/.450

 

Not debatable.

Run values:

=========

Walk = .30 run

Single = .46 run

Double = .75 run

Homer = 1.40 run

 

2 HRs + 1 Double + 1 Single = 4.0 runs

Half his walks (10.5) = 3.2 runs

 

We agree. This is not debatable.