Of course this happens right after I decided to go to sleep when they left the bases filled in the 7th.

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously. :confused

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

Andrew Miller is my favorite player, period.

 

It's not just one start, it's one bad season (2008) and a very mediocre one (2009).

Hey,

 

It's been a few seasons since I was last on this forum, so hello everyone!

 

Just wanted to say that it seems to me like the MArlins are beginning to find the same spark that began mid-way through 2003. OK, I know it's not exactly the same quality of team (I wish it were) but these guys are beginning to win ball games in style. I really like what I see right now.

 

It's good to see the bats (minus Ramirez) get going. And that shut-out by Volstad was awesome.

 

Let's hope this time its for real and we don't tail off after the All-Star Game.

 

GO FISH!

I dont know about you guys but i hate these west coast swings with work in the morning, always dead mornings after the games. San Fran was the worst with 10:15 starts.

 

Im getting old I guess

 

Awesome game yesterday

That 8th inning was unbelievable. We really crushed the ball last night. The 3 home runs, plus 2 triples and what 3 or 4 doubles? I'm very glad I decided to stick with watching the game instead of shutting my computer off! When we were down 7-0, I was like well this game will either get over really fast now or we will make a comeback. However, a 10-run 8th inning wasn't what I expected! The runs just kept coming! Definitely ranks up there in top 5 wins so far this year. Good to see Jorge go yard. Ended a long homerless streak. And FOTG: Brett for being so damn clutch.

i had a headache so i went to sleep when we were losing 6-0. incredible comeback! and carrol has been good for us hope he stays with the ballclub. and the mets lost =)

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously. :confused

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

holy crap. i didn't even know what happened until this morning while watching the recap on ESPN. i knew we were down 7-0 when i got pissed and stopped following on gamecast.

Are people seriously criticizing Miller after a bad start????? I mean the same "people" on this board were doing the same with Volstad, damn these idiot knee jerk people. Miller has been beyond spectacular before this start, and his ERA is slowly getting down to what were hoping for the begin the season. Just a bad game for him.

 

And game was amazing, Fredi made the right moves, period. Gotta vote for him.

 

Thing is, why did the D-Backs manager AJ Hinch (sp?) not go to the warmed up righty in the bullpen when he saw BC get up to bat, considering BC has been a beast against LHP and average against RHP? Fredi took a big gamble there and the D-Backs manager took the bait, great game all around from the 6th inning on.

Are people seriously criticizing Miller after a bad start????? I mean the same "people" on this board were doing the same with Volstad, damn these idiot knee jerk people. Miller has been beyond spectacular before this start, and his ERA is slowly getting down to what were hoping for the begin the season. Just a bad game for him.

 

 

 

I agree 100%. What do people want from Miller? I guess he has to be JJ-esque or people don't want him in the rotation. Get real people.

Are people seriously criticizing Miller after a bad start????? I mean the same "people" on this board were doing the same with Volstad, damn these idiot knee jerk people. Miller has been beyond spectacular before this start, and his ERA is slowly getting down to what were hoping for the begin the season. Just a bad game for him.

 

And game was amazing, Fredi made the right moves, period. Gotta vote for him.

 

Thing is, why did the D-Backs manager AJ Hinch (sp?) not go to the warmed up righty in the bullpen when he saw BC get up to bat, considering BC has been a beast against LHP and average against RHP? Fredi took a big gamble there and the D-Backs manager took the bait, great game all around from the 6th inning on.

 

 

if i remember correctly (probably not) they brought in the lefty and thats why fredi pinch hit with BC

I didn't get home until the 7th, so I missed the crap and watched the good stuff!

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously.

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

 

Andrew Miller, a top prospect.

Emilio Bonifacio, a top utility player.

 

I have my reasons.

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously. :confused

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

 

In 5 years, Andrew Miller has the chance to be an all-star pitcher... in the same 5 years, Boner has the chance to be 29.

 

On a more serious note, Bonifacio's track record has always been pretty unspectacular. Miller, in however limited minors experience (thanks Boras) has done (very) well. It's extremely unlikely to the point of aberration to expect a player to outperform their minor league numbers. That being said... 99% of the Boner Haters just want him out of the starting lineup and on the bench, not giving up on him as a MLer altogether... but heck, Amezaga isn't an everyday starter either.

Andrew Miller is my favorite player, period.

 

It's not just one start, it's one bad season (2008) and a very mediocre one (2009).

 

 

sounds like progress to me.

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously.

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

 

In 5 years, Andrew Miller has the chance to be an all-star pitcher... in the same 5 years, Boner has the chance to be 29.

 

On a more serious note, Bonifacio's track record has always been pretty unspectacular. Miller, in however limited minors experience (thanks Boras) has done (very) well. It's extremely unlikely to the point of aberration to expect a player to outperform their minor league numbers. That being said... 99% of the Boner Haters just want him out of the starting lineup and on the bench, not giving up on him as a MLer altogether... but heck, Amezaga isn't an everyday starter either.

I really wonder what Miller's upside is. The reason he was top prospect is because of his mid to high 90s fastball but these days he rarely throws that hard and when he does he doesn't command it very well. This year the average velocity of his FB (per fangraphs) is 90.7 and that ranks him 59th out of 114 pitchers with 70+ innings.

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously.

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

 

In 5 years, Andrew Miller has the chance to be an all-star pitcher... in the same 5 years, Boner has the chance to be 29.

 

On a more serious note, Bonifacio's track record has always been pretty unspectacular. Miller, in however limited minors experience (thanks Boras) has done (very) well. It's extremely unlikely to the point of aberration to expect a player to outperform their minor league numbers. That being said... 99% of the Boner Haters just want him out of the starting lineup and on the bench, not giving up on him as a MLer altogether... but heck, Amezaga isn't an everyday starter either.

I really wonder what Miller's upside is. The reason he was top prospect is because of his mid to high 90s fastball but these days he rarely throws that hard and when he does he doesn't command it very well. This year the average velocity of his FB (per fangraphs) is 90.7 and that ranks him 59th out of 114 pitchers with 70+ innings.

 

you have to remember that a lot of that was at the begining of the year when he was injured and it dropped his velo.

 

his overall speed is still not impressive though. he has a career 91.6 velo and that's basically what it's been since coming back from going over the games at brooks.

 

I agree though that I don't really think he'll be an ace. more of a #2-#3. But that's still good.

 

Also just saying his high FB wasn't the only reason he was a top propsect but also his slider, which he had been using more during his good stretch. But I agree that the fact he's only staying around a 91 velo FB hurts him.

I'm loving Brett Carroll... as I might have been the only one around here asking for him to get a chance early in the season when Maybin was stinkin' up the place.

 

Great win for the team but I am starting to lose hope in Andrew Miller. Seriously.

 

Yes, because one bad start means he sucks. It amazes me how you give up on young players so fast.

 

You've given up on the 24yo Emilio Bonifacio. You can't have it both ways - that's just extremely stupid.

 

In 5 years, Andrew Miller has the chance to be an all-star pitcher... in the same 5 years, Boner has the chance to be 29.

 

On a more serious note, Bonifacio's track record has always been pretty unspectacular. Miller, in however limited minors experience (thanks Boras) has done (very) well. It's extremely unlikely to the point of aberration to expect a player to outperform their minor league numbers. That being said... 99% of the Boner Haters just want him out of the starting lineup and on the bench, not giving up on him as a MLer altogether... but heck, Amezaga isn't an everyday starter either.

I really wonder what Miller's upside is. The reason he was top prospect is because of his mid to high 90s fastball but these days he rarely throws that hard and when he does he doesn't command it very well. This year the average velocity of his FB (per fangraphs) is 90.7 and that ranks him 59th out of 114 pitchers with 70+ innings.

 

As of now the only upside is if he can gain control of his nasty off speed pitches, then he'll be a hell of a strikeout pitcher.

 

But the loss of velocity is probably due to the change is mechanics and delivery.

COMPLETELY different than what you all were talking about, but still on subject: What was Rich's call like last night? I was watching it on regular MLBTV, so I was watching the FS Arizona feed and Grace & Co. were pretty much mute from the second Carroll crushed that pitch. Ouch! Anyway, I bet Rich and Tommy were just loving that comeback last night! I really wish I could have heard it!

As of now the only upside is if he can gain control of his nasty off speed pitches, then he'll be a hell of a strikeout pitcher.

 

But the loss of velocity is probably due to the change is mechanics and delivery.

 

 

 

I personally think it's because he's trying harder to hit his spots, so he takes something off. His average FB hasn't gone down really since changing mechanics, and he still tops out at 97 and revs it up to atleast 95 atleast once per game.

 

I think if he had better control he could sit at about 93-94, whitting hitting 97-98, basically what JJ does, and he has a good amount of movement like JJ. But he'll very likely never have close to JJ's control so it shouldn't be counted on.

I'm not quite as upset as I was last night (because the Marlins got the win) but Andrew Miller seems like a mess and I wonder if he should be down in AAA working some things out. He was all over the place last night and consistently fell behind in the count.

 

I don't know what Badenhop's status is after that shot to the knee, but I sure would like to see Vanden Hurk throwing every fifth game instead of Miller, especially if the Marlins think they are trying to make the playoffs this season.

I'm not quite as upset as I was last night (because the Marlins got the win) but Andrew Miller seems like a mess and I wonder if he should be down in AAA working some things out. He was all over the place last night and consistently fell behind in the count.

 

I don't know what Badenhop's status is after that shot to the knee, but I sure would like to see Vanden Hurk throwing every fifth game instead of Miller, especially if the Marlins think they are trying to make the playoffs this season.

 

 

I'm not defending his performance from last night because that was horrible, but in the 10 starts prior to last night since coming back from injury he had a 3.47 BB/9 (league average 3.53), 7.84 K/9, 1.32 WHIP, .304 BABIP, 3.92 ERA, 3.70 FIP. He threw a pitch for a strike 65% of the time (league average 62%), By basically any measure he pitched like a #2 since coming back from injury.

 

And last nights debacle doesn't then blow up those stats, it only raises them a little bit (i.e. 3.58 BB/9 now since coming back from injury).

 

Wanting to send him down just because of one bad start is ludicrous.

Yeah Miller's been pretty good lately, I'm certainly not complaining. Last night was a mess, and one of the signs of a really good pitcher is their ability to grind out 5-6 innings even when they don't "have it" that night. Andrew's not there yet, but that's something that'll come with time hopefully.

I just happened upon this and thought it deserved at least an acknowledgment:

 

"The Florida Marlins just keep coming.

 

The Marlins, which actually appear to be some manner of angry marlin-piranha hybrid, simply do not give up. And the second that you doubt this team or think that they will go belly-up they Unleash The Fury and lay a Moby-Dick-on-Captain-Ahab beat down on your ass."

 

by Robert Ferringo - 07/10/2009

 

http://www.docsports.com/2009/florida-marlins-042.html

 

(edit) and from my Marlins sales rep:

 

The Marlins trailed the Diamondbacks in the sixth inning, 7-0, but came back to win, 14-7. Only two other teams in Major League history have won by seven or more after trailing by seven or more in the sixth inning or later: the Cardinals in 1911 against the Reds (trailed 8–0, won, 15–8) and the Indians in 1999 against the Devil Rays (trailed 10–2, won, 20–11). Elias Sports Bureau

I'm not quite as upset as I was last night (because the Marlins got the win) but Andrew Miller seems like a mess and I wonder if he should be down in AAA working some things out. He was all over the place last night and consistently fell behind in the count.

 

I don't know what Badenhop's status is after that shot to the knee, but I sure would like to see Vanden Hurk throwing every fifth game instead of Miller, especially if the Marlins think they are trying to make the playoffs this season.

 

 

I'm not defending his performance from last night because that was horrible, but in the 10 starts prior to last night since coming back from injury he had a 3.47 BB/9 (league average 3.53), 7.84 K/9, 1.32 WHIP, .304 BABIP, 3.92 ERA, 3.70 FIP. He threw a pitch for a strike 65% of the time (league average 62%), By basically any measure he pitched like a #2 since coming back from injury.

 

And last nights debacle doesn't then blow up those stats, it only raises them a little bit (i.e. 3.58 BB/9 now since coming back from injury).

 

Wanting to send him down just because of one bad start is ludicrous.

Well, in case you haven't noticed, his performance last night places him now below league average in many of those categories. Fortunately for Miller, the stat line he walked away with severely underestimated how poorly he pitched.

 

Just by looking at BB/9 and WHIP alone (and excluding the entire month of April), Miller is still at the bottom 30% line of all qualified pitchers. Of course that isn't horrendous, but with Miller having control issues (and ironically it seems that Miller pitched most consistently back in May), I am wondering what the Marlins are planning to do with Vanden Hurk. Of course, if Badenhop goes to the DL, the problem will solve itself, but I'm not certain that the Marlins can afford any more of these disastrous starts from Miller while Vanden Hurk is stranded down in AAA.