I have written off Maybin as a potential contributor. That ship has sailed. Send him to the Orioles or Pirates.

 

Just pretend he's never played in the majors, had the same minors numbers, was the same age, and only played in A+.

In evaluating him you shouldn't pretend he never played in the majors. What he did in the majors is part of his history.

I think you missed the joke.

Bingo.

I have written off Maybin as a potential contributor. That ship has sailed. Send him to the Orioles or Pirates.

 

Just pretend he's never played in the majors, had the same minors numbers, was the same age, and only played in A+.

In evaluating him you shouldn't pretend he never played in the majors. What he did in the majors is part of his history.

I think you missed the joke.

Bingo.

So what's the joke?

So what's the joke?

 

That if he was 23 with a .864 OPS in the last 2 years and a career .865 OPS in the minors, Cornfield would be clamoring to call him up.

 

Well, he is 23 with a .864 OPS in the last 2 years and a career .865 OPS in the minors.

Why is it that all the people in the buyers crowd want bullpen help? Quite honestly, if the Marlins consider themselves buyers, they should look to add a starting pitcher who can give this team quality innings down the stretch. Sanabia's nice and all, but you can't expect more than 5 out of him...and he's actually the #4 because we currently don't even have a #5. Anibal Sanchez and Nolasco you can live with, but even with them, nothing is all that certain. The only for sure thing is the fact that you have a consistent ace, in Josh Johnson.

 

If you truly expect to contend, this starting rotation isn't going to get it done. I know the bullpen failed tonight again (in part because we had a starter who went less than 5 innings), but I have more confidence in the pen than I do in the backend of the rotation. The backend of the rotation really sucks right now.

I stand by my original stance. Lets just not move anything. We're not a playoff team and no matter what we do (as buyers) we probably still wont be, however this team still has the potential to make the playoffs.

 

But if we sell it's definitely over.

I stand by my original stance. Lets just not move anything. We're not a playoff team and no matter what we do (as buyers) we probably still wont be, however this team still has the potential to make the playoffs.

 

But if we sell it's definitely over.

 

 

 

No, regardless of what we are, Cantu needs to go.

I don't necessarily disagree with trading Cantu, but if the front office truly believes we are in the race at the trade deadline, you don't want to trade Cantu simply because you would put Coghlan at a position he has never played before in the majors (3B) and put a rookie immediately into a wild card race extremely late in the season (Morrison LF).

 

I was and am still of the mindset if we went 5-2 or better during the Braves/Giants series, we should keep this team intact and look for one more middle reliever to add to the 'pen. If we end 3-4 or worse we should probably be looking to trade Cantu and Ross (possibly even Nunez if the right offer comes along).

I don't necessarily disagree with trading Cantu, but if the front office truly believes we are in the race at the trade deadline, you don't want to trade Cantu simply because you would put Coghlan at a position he has never played before in the majors (3B) and put a rookie immediately into a wild card race extremely late in the season (Morrison LF).

 

I was and am still of the mindset if we went 5-2 or better during the Braves/Giants series, we should keep this team intact and look for one more middle reliever to add to the 'pen. If we end 3-4 or worse we should probably be looking to trade Cantu and Ross (possibly even Nunez if the right offer comes along).

 

 

 

Take away April, and Cantu has been worse than Emilio Bonifacio this year, all things considered.

 

May: .701 .OPS

June: .681 .OPS

July: .579 .OPS

 

Combine that with his consistent, terrible defense, and the fact that he's a free agent at the end of the year who we're going to lose + Logan Morrison could easily outproduce that, rookie or not...and he needs to go. There are some teams who feel like they could use him, and we would be wise to get something, anything for him.

The problem Erick that you identified is a legitimate one, finding a quality starter would be great. No argument there.

 

But part of what you saw tonight with only one lefty in the bullpen, admittedly one I personally don't have all the confidence in the world in and have said so, even as he's been doing well, is not having a second lefty and preferably one who can pitch to more than one or two batters - not having another guy that fits our needs in certain circumstances - guys who can contribute three or four nights a week each will, I believe, and I'm not speaking for anyone else, will contribute more in the win column than one fourth or fifth starter (because let's face it, we are not getting any of the top ten names being bandied about as starters available by trade) so by definition I don't know who that starter would be.

 

Worth mentioning although not necessarily in the context of your point, RVH had an excellent outing for NOLA tonight.

I don't necessarily disagree with trading Cantu, but if the front office truly believes we are in the race at the trade deadline, you don't want to trade Cantu simply because you would put Coghlan at a position he has never played before in the majors (3B) and put a rookie immediately into a wild card race extremely late in the season (Morrison LF).

 

I was and am still of the mindset if we went 5-2 or better during the Braves/Giants series, we should keep this team intact and look for one more middle reliever to add to the 'pen. If we end 3-4 or worse we should probably be looking to trade Cantu and Ross (possibly even Nunez if the right offer comes along).

 

 

You don't want to make a gamble simply because you're not willing to make a gamble, but we don't really have that much to lose. Cantu has been hitting like he turned 45 in May, and his defense isn't good either. I don't know much about Coghlan and his ability to play third, but the organization does, so I'll defer to their judgement. It's not as if we're replacing Mike Lowell out there, though come to think of it we moved Cabrera in for Lowell eventually when his bat didn't come around in '05.

 

If Morrison comes in and has a .600 OPS for a couple weeks, it would be easy to feel like this wasn't worth making. But one must keep in mind that Cantu is doing just as little at the plate right now, and I think when Morrison gets comfortable he could make us a better team offensively. Other than that, we could move Cantu to get a better player elsewhere to help this team. Even if Cantu to Morrison is a push offensively, its a win overall if we keep the offensive production the same but improve the bullpen.

They absolutely need another lefty in the bullpen. They absolutely need a lefty bat off the bench not named Petersen, despite the big hit tonight. They absolutely need another catcher if Baker is not coming back in the next two weeks. They absolutely have to get rid of Cantu, call up Morrison, and move Coghlan to the infield.

 

I don't think you need another starter. I think you count on Volstad, West, Sanabia, and Vanden Hurk to provide consistent innings, which they should be able to do. Beef up the pen with two guys behind them, so you just aren't screwed if there is a rough start like sanabia tonight. If Cantu can get you one of the arms, you can start dishing out the tier 2 RP prospects for nominal veterans for the rest. This wouldn't be a big cost issue. The Marlins need some spare parts, which we can all see with Murphy, can provide the difference in games.

 

And how good is Gaby.

I stand by my original stance. Lets just not move anything. We're not a playoff team and no matter what we do (as buyers) we probably still wont be, however this team still has the potential to make the playoffs.

 

But if we sell it's definitely over.

 

 

 

No, regardless of what we are, Cantu needs to go.

 

Cantu needs to be benched. But he's still valuable in my eyes, and can re-emerge at any moment. Dont think we'd get much of anything for him right now anyways, but if a miracle actually does happen and this team is looking at the playoffs I think the old Cantu could always show up again and help us go places.

Gaby's the frieking man. Miami born, UMiami grad, and now bashing for the big league team. They should promote him a lot more IMO.

To some extent, if Cantu is the odd man out and it looks more and more like he is, the roster spot his departure creates plus the salary saved that can be allocated elsewhere are almost as important as the player compensation we get back.

Maybe Jose Ceda will be brought up to help the bullpen before the end of the season.

 

Stats from AA Jacksonville in 11 appearances -

17 IP

2 R (2 ER)...1.06 ERA

9 Hits

8 BB

26 SO

Average Against = .167

 

Small sample size, but I think we all agree this guy has PLUS potential and may be ready sooner than later.

They absolutely need another lefty in the bullpen. They absolutely need a lefty bat off the bench not named Petersen, despite the big hit tonight. They absolutely need another catcher if Baker is not coming back in the next two weeks. They absolutely have to get rid of Cantu, call up Morrison, and move Coghlan to the infield.

 

I don't think you need another starter. I think you count on Volstad, West, Sanabia, and Vanden Hurk to provide consistent innings, which they should be able to do. Beef up the pen with two guys behind them, so you just aren't screwed if there is a rough start like sanabia tonight. If Cantu can get you one of the arms, you can start dishing out the tier 2 RP prospects for nominal veterans for the rest. This wouldn't be a big cost issue. The Marlins need some spare parts, which we can all see with Murphy, can provide the difference in games.

 

And how good is Gaby.

 

 

 

I agree with the bench bat.

 

Regarding the LOOGY, I don't think it's a necessity. The 3 righties in the backend of our current bullpen have all been successful against lefties this year. If you have righties who can get lefties out, LOOGY's don't become an absolute necessity (especially since we already have one in Tankersley). It would be luxury, but I don't think it's an absolute need.

 

Regarding the backup catcher, Davis impressed me the other night defensively, and he's been having a solid year with the bat in AAA...even if it is the PCL. He just needs a start or two per week until Baker comes back, just to keep Paulino fresh.

 

A starter who can give this team innings is the bigger necessity. If anything...regarding the LOOGY, the Marlins can callup one of their young lefties from the minors, and they can probably get the job done as the 2nd lefty out of the pen. It's also possible Nate Robertson comes back to fill that role.

 

You need a more reliable starter right now if you're going to contend. Right now, we only have 4 starters in the big leagues, and the 4th starter shouldn't even be starting in the big leagues. If anything, he's just another guy who, if the team gets a starter, can give the team more quality innings out of the bullpen.

I stand by my original stance. Lets just not move anything. We're not a playoff team and no matter what we do (as buyers) we probably still wont be, however this team still has the potential to make the playoffs.

 

But if we sell it's definitely over.

 

 

 

No, regardless of what we are, Cantu needs to go.

 

Cantu needs to be benched. But he's still valuable in my eyes, and can re-emerge at any moment. Dont think we'd get much of anything for him right now anyways, but if a miracle actually does happen and this team is looking at the playoffs I think the old Cantu could always show up again and help us go places.

 

How will old cantu come back if hes benched? He would need to be playing for him to "come back." Him playing right now hurts the team. Off the bench he can't be a defensive replacement. He can't pinch hit. He serves no real purpose on the bench.

 

Benching someone... Hanley was benched... and then started starting again. Players get benched for poor play, and Cantu should've been benched a long time ago, even if it were for Wes Helms playing 3rd base. You'd bench him for about 10 games, let him get his act together, amd test him out again. It works on quite a bit of players, and not only in baseball. A lot of the time these players get mentally and physically tired and need some time to gather themselves and rest for a bit. Again, Cantu should've been benched a long, long time ago for slumping play.

I stand by my original stance. Lets just not move anything. We're not a playoff team and no matter what we do (as buyers) we probably still wont be, however this team still has the potential to make the playoffs.

 

But if we sell it's definitely over.

 

 

 

No, regardless of what we are, Cantu needs to go.

 

This!

I feel we should trade Cantu now to a team like Texas who wants and almost need him. If we can get a decent pitching prospect or two I'd be fine with it as we replace him with Logan Morrison who shouldn't take to long to make his mark as a solid hitter at the major league level.

Then we deal Helms to NY for anything we can get, I pray for Mitre, and replace Helms with Hector Luna who is pretty much the same player with a slight minus with the defense.

Lineup changes are Cogs to 3B and Morrison in LF batting 7th or 8th.

Bench has B.C./B.P., Luna, D Murph, Bonifacio, Catcher

 

The Bullpen is fine and with Ceda getting back on track should be the least of out concerns.

The Rotation besides J.J., Ricky and Anibal doesn't look to good if we are contending as their are holes with Sanabia on a pitch limit and a non true 5th starter, I want Volstad back. If we can't get a decent starting pitcher in any of our trades and we are still contending I feel we should either, demote Sanabia to NOLA to start (since they don't want to take him off a pitch limit this season) recall Volstad and try RVH as a starter if he doesn't work then go West but we need a legit 4 starting pitchers who can give us at least 6 or more IP almost every start.

Bullpen has Hopper, Tank, Sanches, Ceda, Hensley, Veras, Leo (you can throw in Marinez, Robertson if he clears and others)

 

Main Goals to me, contending or not are trading Cantu, Helms and possibly Robertson for anything good we can get so we can look more towards the future which they shouldn't be part off.

I feel we should trade Cantu now to a team like Texas who wants and almost need him. If we can get a decent pitching prospect or two I'd be fine with it as we replace him with Logan Morrison who shouldn't take to long to make his mark as a solid hitter at the major league level.

 

 

Agreed. They gotta make this happen, first and foremost.

Manny Navarro of The Miami Herald adds the Rockies to the list of teams that have expressed interest in Jorge Cantu.

 

 

 

That makes it three teams in the Rangers, Giants and Rockies who are interested in Jorge and they all have very good farm systems with tons of up and coming talent.

I think it was Baseball America that had the Texas farm system ranked in the top 5....not too sure about Colorado or Giants though. However, the Giants have been known to groom some good arms.

I think it was Baseball America that had the Texas farm system ranked in the top 5....not too sure about Colorado or Giants though. However, the Giants have been known to groom some good arms.

 

 

Texas is ranked 3rd, San Fransisco 8th and Colorado 10th.

Lets make things happen!

Thing is, do Texas really need Cantu? He can play 1B, 3B or DH. They have 3B covered with Michael Young and DH with Vlad Guerrero. That leaves 1B and Chris Davis has been pretty shocking this year, their overall team is still good enough to have a 7 game lead over the Angels in the West. Why would they give away much when there is as likely a chance of Davis starting to mash the ball as there is Cantu rediscovering his long lost HR stroke?

Thing is, do Texas really need Cantu? He can play 1B, 3B or DH. They have 3B covered with Michael Young and DH with Vlad Guerrero. That leaves 1B and Chris Davis has been pretty shocking this year, their overall team is still good enough to have a 7 game lead over the Angels in the West. Why would they give away much when there is as likely a chance of Davis starting to mash the ball as there is Cantu rediscovering his long lost HR stroke?

 

 

The main reason the Rnagers want Cantu is so they can have a good right handed hitting 1st baseman to Platoon with Davis.

Davis has looked clueless at the plate this year and he has been even worse against LHP. Cantu cold hold his own against lefties and the two could make a good platoon.

That along with the fact that the Rangers really don't have any good backup Corner Infielders in Joaquin Arias and Andres Blanco.

 

So if we do trade Cantu we should be able to steal a couple of decent prospects in my eyes.

With the way Davis is struggling I think the Marlins could extract someone like righty reliever Pedro Strop from the Rangers for Cantu. After all look at the haul the Rangers got for Callaspo.