August 29, 201015 yr Defense sucks, Bullpen sucks, Leo should not be on this team next year, and Stanton continues to act like the first 2 months never happened, and some of you people still believe in this team this year?? This is a .500 team folks... Up by 5 late in the game, a good team gets the victory... The Marlins are not good enough... So save any post-season pipe dreams for next year and enjoy being a spoiler I was thinking about this on Friday, when someone posted the 'we're still in it' thread or whatever. I don't understand how people can think this team has a chance. It's just a sad reality.
August 29, 201015 yr I kind of like Leo Nunez as our closer. He's not in the upper echelon of closers, but he's probably in the tier 2. We can upgrade, but I doubt we do. what?? Leo is bottom of the barrel in closers. On some other teams, he probably would of lost his job by now. He has the highest blown saves in the league at 8 and is the bottom 5 in avg, whip, blown save % and his ERA is nothing to write home about. In other words, he stinks. No, he's not. He's right up there with Wagner, K-Rod, Marmol, and Cordero. eh? http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/closers Not sure what that link was for.
August 29, 201015 yr Leo Nunez is not a bad closer. Bad stretch? Yeah, he's definitely having a bad stretch having given up a run in 7 of his last 10 appearances. From April through July he had a 2.64 ERA and was considered by many of us one of the highlights of this season and an all star caliber closer. It's called a bad month. He's been terrible in August. Maybe a closer change should be made right now because it seems Leo's confidence may not be where it needs to be, but for people to bag on him and call him terrible is just extremely convenient given what happened today. One day people call him amazing, the next he's the worst closer in the league. Leo is what he is, an elite level set up man and a mid tier closer in the league. Ashraf is 100% right in saying Leo is a tier 2 closer. The defense is what should be a much bigger worry. Leo has the ability to become an top closer again if he regains his confidence and locates his pitches, that defense isn't going to shore itself up overnight. It's been bad for years and it isn't going to get better any time soon (and in the future). Its one thing for a closer to blow games. Its another thing for a closer to give up as many home runs and extra base hits as Leo Nunez does. These numbers are from yesterday obviously, I could add to it but because I don't know what other closers did today I'm not going to. Here's everyone with at least 15 saves: Homers Rk Player HR SV 1 Alfredo Simon 8 17 2 Octavio Dotel 6 22 3 Jonathan Papelbon 6 33 4 Matt Capps 6 32 5 Brian Fuentes 5 24 6 Ryan Franklin 5 22 7 Neftali Feliz 5 32 8 David Aardsma 5 24 9 Francisco Cordero 5 34 10 Billy Wagner 5 30 11 Brad Lidge 5 18 12 Joakim Soria 4 36 13 Jose Valverde 4 24 14 Chris Perez 4 16 15 Matt Lindstrom 4 22 16 Kevin Gregg 4 30 17 Francisco Rodriguez 3 25 18 Leo Nunez 3 29 19 Bobby Jenks 3 24 20 Jon Rauch 3 21 21 Andrew Bailey 3 20 22 Rafael Soriano 3 38 23 Jonathan Broxton 2 22 24 Brian Wilson 2 35 25 Heath Bell 1 37 Rk Player HR SV 26 Mariano Rivera 1 26 27 John Axford 1 19 28 Carlos Marmol 1 24 Extra Base Hits: Rk Player SV XBH 1 Matt Capps 32 20 2 Jonathan Papelbon 33 19 3 Octavio Dotel 22 19 4 Ryan Franklin 22 18 5 Rafael Soriano 38 16 6 Chris Perez 16 16 7 Kevin Gregg 30 15 8 Francisco Cordero 34 15 9 Brian Fuentes 24 15 10 Alfredo Simon 17 15 11 Jon Rauch 21 14 12 Leo Nunez 29 14 13 Francisco Rodriguez 25 14 14 Matt Lindstrom 22 12 15 Jose Valverde 24 12 16 Joakim Soria 36 12 17 Neftali Feliz 32 12 18 Jonathan Broxton 22 11 19 Bobby Jenks 24 11 20 Brad Lidge 18 11 21 David Aardsma 24 11 22 Carlos Marmol 24 10 23 John Axford 19 10 24 Heath Bell 37 10 25 Brian Wilson 35 10 26 Billy Wagner 30 10 27 Mariano Rivera 26 7 28 Andrew Bailey 20 7
August 29, 201015 yr Leo Nunez is not a bad closer. Bad stretch? Yeah, he's definitely having a bad stretch having given up a run in 7 of his last 10 appearances. From April through July he had a 2.64 ERA and was considered by many of us one of the highlights of this season and an all star caliber closer. It's called a bad month. He's been terrible in August. Maybe a closer change should be made right now because it seems Leo's confidence may not be where it needs to be, but for people to bag on him and call him terrible is just extremely convenient given what happened today. One day people call him amazing, the next he's the worst closer in the league. Leo is what he is, an elite level set up man and a mid tier closer in the league. Ashraf is 100% right in saying Leo is a tier 2 closer. The defense is what should be a much bigger worry. Leo has the ability to become an top closer again if he regains his confidence and locates his pitches, that defense isn't going to shore itself up overnight. It's been bad for years and it isn't going to get better any time soon (and in the future). Its one thing for a closer to blow games. Its another thing for a closer to give up as many home runs and extra base hits as Leo Nunez does. 5 home runs on the season is a lot? That's a home run per every 10+ innings pitched. People believe what they want to believe, and given how today's game ended, people now are building this entire belief in their heads that Nunez is worse than he actually is.
August 29, 201015 yr Come on ash... you cant say with a straight face that he is a decent closer. I know its convenient to jump on a guy who just blew a save... but dude. Personally I think he could flourish in a setup role but as a closer? Please make my nightmare end, I don't know. I'm just speaking my mind. I mean, look at Wagner. He has 7 blown saves. Nunez isn't great, but I doubt we can do much better. I like Erick's idea, though. fair enough as blown saves are blown saves.. but i would take wagner 100 times out of 100 over nunez. An ERA in the 1s.. a whip under 1. A BAA in the .100s. Insane strike out to inning numbers. Its a convenient argument but lets be serious. Nunez on his best day isn't billy wagner. As would I. He has the better numbers. But what I'm trying to prove is Nunez is not all that bad. His numbers are pretty good. They took a huge hit this month, though.
August 29, 201015 yr Nunez has the 5th best WAR for ML closers, based upon FIP. Of course, today's outing might lower that ranking just a tad. There are a lot of people just under Nunez.
August 29, 201015 yr Defense sucks, Bullpen sucks, Leo should not be on this team next year, and Stanton continues to act like the first 2 months never happened, and some of you people still believe in this team this year?? This is a .500 team folks... Up by 5 late in the game, a good team gets the victory... The Marlins are not good enough... So save any post-season pipe dreams for next year and enjoy being a spoiler I was thinking about this on Friday, when someone posted the 'we're still in it' thread or whatever. I don't understand how people can think this team has a chance. It's just a sad reality. It's fine to stay positive. But I like to keep things in perspective. Our defense right now is the biggest problem. Use Hanley for an example. The first game of this series, Hanley (I think) booted a ball that would've been an easy out. Even Tommy commented that it was just lazy or something like that. Last night, Hanley called everyone off on a popup that should've been caught, but he let it drop (not sure if that was an error on him though). And today, he made an error that would've gotten us out of that inning but then the Braves ended up scoring. And that's just Hanley. There's been many others making errors that just shouldn't happen. Right now, we're not ready for the playoffs even if there was some miracle, which we all know isn't very likely in the end. Next year? I would like to say yes, but that depends on what the FO does to help this team. BP-wise, bench-wise. But if we still have the same overall players, doesn't that mean we still have the same defense? Gaby is a rookie and he can get better. But what about Hanley? He's been making "lazy" errors for quite some time and that won't change. But if it's not very costly to us and he can hit the way he's been hitting lately and the way we expect him to, it'll make up for that.
August 29, 201015 yr Defense sucks, Bullpen sucks, Leo should not be on this team next year, and Stanton continues to act like the first 2 months never happened, and some of you people still believe in this team this year?? This is a .500 team folks... Up by 5 late in the game, a good team gets the victory... The Marlins are not good enough... So save any post-season pipe dreams for next year and enjoy being a spoiler Agree. A miracle run can still happen, but ugh. I just want 85 wins. Probaby finish between 81-81 and 84-78 though. :thumbdown Please Loria go cheap and not bring back Leo. I'm sure he is a good person, but he can't close out games. Sign Uggla and maybe Ricky to long term contracts, and what money left goes towards BP. Maybe the AAA closer is good?
August 29, 201015 yr Defense sucks, Bullpen sucks, Leo should not be on this team next year, and Stanton continues to act like the first 2 months never happened, and some of you people still believe in this team this year?? This is a .500 team folks... Up by 5 late in the game, a good team gets the victory... The Marlins are not good enough... So save any post-season pipe dreams for next year and enjoy being a spoiler I was thinking about this on Friday, when someone posted the 'we're still in it' thread or whatever. I don't understand how people can think this team has a chance. It's just a sad reality. It's fine to stay positive. But I like to keep things in perspective. Our defense right now is the biggest problem. Use Hanley for an example. The first game of this series, Hanley (I think) booted a ball that would've been an easy out. Even Tommy commented that it was just lazy or something like that. Last night, Hanley called everyone off on a popup that should've been caught, but he let it drop (not sure if that was an error on him though). And today, he made an error that would've gotten us out of that inning but then the Braves ended up scoring. And that's just Hanley. There's been many others making errors that just shouldn't happen. Right now, we're not ready for the playoffs even if there was some miracle, which we all know isn't very likely in the end. Next year? I would like to say yes, but that depends on what the FO does to help this team. BP-wise, bench-wise. But if we still have the same overall players, doesn't that mean we still have the same defense? Gaby is a rookie and he can get better. But what about Hanley? He's been making "lazy" errors for quite some time and that won't change. But if it's not very costly to us and he can hit the way he's been hitting lately and the way we expect him to, it'll make up for that. Hanley needs to improve his defense period, i don't care if he hits .300 every year his defense isn't improving he needs someone to help him work on getting the ball out of his glove and making a straight non lob throw to first, imo. The team in general needs to improve it's defense you think maturity and more years played would improve defense but the only person who I have seen play defensive better is Dan Uggla and Dan Uggla has done just about everything right this year, sign him. Keep Bonifacio.
August 29, 201015 yr I kind of like Leo Nunez as our closer. He's not in the upper echelon of closers, but he's probably in the tier 2. We can upgrade, but I doubt we do. what?? Leo is bottom of the barrel in closers. On some other teams, he probably would of lost his job by now. He has the highest blown saves in the league at 8 and is the bottom 5 in avg, whip, blown save % and his ERA is nothing to write home about. In other words, he stinks. No, he's not. He's right up there with Wagner, K-Rod, Marmol, and Cordero. He's nowhere near Wagner.
August 29, 201015 yr I kind of like Leo Nunez as our closer. He's not in the upper echelon of closers, but he's probably in the tier 2. We can upgrade, but I doubt we do. what?? Leo is bottom of the barrel in closers. On some other teams, he probably would of lost his job by now. He has the highest blown saves in the league at 8 and is the bottom 5 in avg, whip, blown save % and his ERA is nothing to write home about. In other words, he stinks. No, he's not. He's right up there with Wagner, K-Rod, Marmol, and Cordero. He's nowhere near Wagner. If you're going by blown saves, which everyone is now, he is.
August 29, 201015 yr Today's first inning Marlins error which led to a run was by Dan Uggla, NOT Hanley.
August 29, 201015 yr Apparently, 8 times in a JJ start has he left the game with a lead and saw the BP blow the game. Hair pulling. No, according to baseballreference.com it's now 6 blown leads for Johnson and not 8. But 6 is still bad though. Our chances are really bad now.
August 29, 201015 yr So, it obviously bothers me a lot when this team struggles. But, baseball is entertainment. And they've entertained me up until about the 3rd game of the NFL preseason, where things start to get interesting. And I think College Football starts next week. So, they did their job, I suppose.
August 29, 201015 yr Today's first inning Marlins error which led to a run was by Dan Uggla, NOT Hanley. did someone say it was by Hanley?? am I missing something here?
August 29, 201015 yr Leo Nunez is not a bad closer. Bad stretch? Yeah, he's definitely having a bad stretch having given up a run in 7 of his last 10 appearances. From April through July he had a 2.64 ERA and was considered by many of us one of the highlights of this season and an all star caliber closer. It's called a bad month. He's been terrible in August. Maybe a closer change should be made right now because it seems Leo's confidence may not be where it needs to be, but for people to bag on him and call him terrible is just extremely convenient given what happened today. One day people call him amazing, the next he's the worst closer in the league. Leo is what he is, an elite level set up man and a mid tier closer in the league. Ashraf is 100% right in saying Leo is a tier 2 closer. The defense is what should be a much bigger worry. Leo has the ability to become an top closer again if he regains his confidence and locates his pitches, that defense isn't going to shore itself up overnight. It's been bad for years and it isn't going to get better any time soon (and in the future). Its one thing for a closer to blow games. Its another thing for a closer to give up as many home runs and extra base hits as Leo Nunez does. 5 home runs on the season is a lot? That's a home run per every 10+ innings pitched. People believe what they want to believe, and given how today's game ended, people now are building this entire belief in their heads that Nunez is worse than he actually is. He allowed double digit HR's last year. Now 4 in the last 5 innings. Considering no one is going to tell him to throw his changeup more now...this could be a telling thing. His fastball gets hit out of the ballpark a lot. And for some reason he throws sliders...
August 29, 201015 yr Apparently, 8 times in a JJ start has he left the game with a lead and saw the BP blow the game. Hair pulling. No, according to baseballreference.com it's now 6 blown leads for Johnson and not 8. But 6 is still bad though. Our chances are really bad now. My bad. I was just remembering/passing along what Joe Fisaro said.
August 30, 201015 yr I wish they would just let leo pitch. He was doing FINE when everyone wasn't on him about throwing a lot of changeups. Its his best pitch. He needs to use it. He was fine? How many saves did he blow in that one week. Either way, Leo is not a good closer. His percentage is terrible, just like it was last year.
August 30, 201015 yr Apparently, 8 times in a JJ start has he left the game with a lead and saw the BP blow the game. Hair pulling. JJ would be a 20 game winner right now if it wasn't for our bullpen. Not only that, he'd pretty much be a lock for the cy young. Well it's not like guys like Wainwright, Ubaldo or other CY Young candidates haven't had games blown for them by their bullpen. It probably won't be as many games but it happens and it's part of the game and you have to live with it. I really, really like Leo and feel, have seen he could be a good closer but he hasn't had his stuff over the past month and right now needs to be taken out of the closer role and Hensley should fill in for him. Also to add, Will Ohman for what looks to be half a season still to me is not worth Rick Vanden Hurk. This was a tough game to swallow and you could kind of predict the way we were playing that Atlanta would make that comeback. Solid Outing by J.J. and Hanley was raking before he was left the game (any updates on him) but the defense was terrible besides from some bright spots from Tracy and Bonifacio who has been playing great as of late. The hopes for a playoff race continue to diminish especially after a heartbreaking loss to the division leader/rival which would've had us take a series from them on the road. Just keep playing baseball, as of now I'd shut down Ricky if he isn't 100 % and just give Miller innings at the MLB level and same with Volstad. Give Leo time off the closer role and give Clay the opportunity and finally make sure Helms isn't on this team next year and give Murphy/Tracy all the time at 3rd from here on out.
August 30, 201015 yr Today's first inning Marlins error which led to a run was by Dan Uggla, NOT Hanley. If that's true then I missed something. My bad, because I thought it was Hanley who errored
August 30, 201015 yr Apparently, 8 times in a JJ start has he left the game with a lead and saw the BP blow the game. Hair pulling. JJ would be a 20 game winner right now if it wasn't for our bullpen. Not only that, he'd pretty much be a lock for the cy young. Well it's not like guys like Wainwright, Ubaldo or other CY Young candidates haven't had games blown for them by their bullpen. It probably won't be as many games but it happens and it's part of the game and you have to live with it. I really, really like Leo and feel, have seen he could be a good closer but he hasn't had his stuff over the past month and right now needs to be taken out of the closer role and Hensley should fill in for him. Also to add, Will Ohman for what looks to be half a season still to me is not worth Rick Vanden Hurk. This was a tough game to swallow and you could kind of predict the way we were playing that Atlanta would make that comeback. Solid Outing by J.J. and Hanley was raking before he was left the game (any updates on him) but the defense was terrible besides from some bright spots from Tracy and Bonifacio who has been playing great as of late. The hopes for a playoff race continue to diminish especially after a heartbreaking loss to the division leader/rival which would've had us take a series from them on the road. Just keep playing baseball, as of now I'd shut down Ricky if he isn't 100 % and just give Miller innings at the MLB level and same with Volstad. Give Leo time off the closer role and give Clay the opportunity and finally make sure Helms isn't on this team next year and give Murphy/Tracy all the time at 3rd from here on out. Helms will be on the team next year.
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