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Marlins Fishing For Young


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FoxSports.com

 

Matt Dominguez, a player who has yet to reach Triple A, is the leading candidate to play third base for the Marlins.

 

The Rangers’ Michael Young likely would be a better solution.

 

The Marlins are interested in Young, who recently asked to be traded, major-league sources say. However, one source with knowledge of the talks describes the possibility as “a real reach.�

 

For a deal to occur, the Rangers would need to assume the vast majority of the remaining $48 million on the final three years of Young’s contract. Young also would need to waive his partial no-trade clause for the Marlins, who are not one of the eight teams that can obtain him without his approval.

 

The acquisition of Young would allow the Marlins to develop Dominguez at Triple A, leaving the club with an infield of Young, shortstop Hanley Ramirez, second baseman Omar Infante and first baseman Gaby Sanchez.

 

Young, a native of Covina, Ca., likely would prefer a trade to the Dodgers or even the Rockies, two teams that are interested in him and free to acquire him without his permission.

 

The Marlins, though, routinely aim high in trade discussions, and soon will grow more attractive for players seeking new homes. They are scheduled to move into a new ballpark in downtown Miami in 2012.

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The Marlins had all offseason to prepare for the scenario in which Dominguez might not be ready. It seems silly to take on even a modest portion of Young's contract considering his age and his awful defense.

 

There's no way this happens.

 

It all depends on how much Texas would eat. He's due $48 million over 3 years. He's produced WARs of 2.4, 2.4, 3.9, and 2.7 the last 4 years, and his defense is "better" than some speak of, it's better than Uggla's based on UZR (average around -6 last two years) so you can live with it if he's hitting. This isn't Cantu -15 bad at 3B. I find it very likely he is a 2+ WAR player over the rest of his deal. That's not mindblowing, but that ain't bad. What's a 2+ WAR player worth at 3B, at minimum, probably around $6 million per year that guys like Brandon Inge and Casey Blake make. And Young has more upside cause he can hit for average, even with looking at his scary Road splits of recent history (2010 Road .679, but 2009 Road .848 OPS).

 

If Texas throws in $10 million per year, and I'm not joking literally that much, I'd trade them Leo Nunez (who kind of makes sense for them so they can shift Feliz into the rotation seemlessly) and some spare parts (very low moderate ceiling relievers). This would create $2.5 additional towards this year's payroll which isn't killer. And come next year, Michael Young will be easily tradeable if his price tag is $6 million a season for 2 years, and if not, talk about an excellent stop gap so Dominguez can hang in AAA for another year. And new stadium money can eat that as the entire team is going to be stupid cheap outside of arbitration years and there really isn't any prime free agents to spend mega bucks on next year (because we're not signing Pujols).

 

This makes a lot of sense at $30 million bucks. It's all a question of how desperate they are to dump. If they can get a good reliever and another young arm or two that could slot into their bullpen in 2-3 years, shaving $18 million of Michael Young starts looking really good on paper. Remember how the Marlins got better trading Preston Wilson and Charles Johnson for part of Mike Hampton's Contract and Tim Spooneyberger. sh*t happens.

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The report I saw on Young said the Marlins checked on him. I'm sure the conversation consisted of the Marlins asking the Rangers to pay pretty much all of his contract, and even chip in money for the pens needed to sign off on the deak.

 

It's a good thing that the Marlins are looking at options though. It's really going to be best for the Marlins and Dominguez to not have him rushed to the bigs before he really masters minor league pitching. A half year of minor league time could help Dominguez hit better once he is called up, and could save us the poor performance that a guy who barely hit .250 in AA would likely provide without any more minor league seasoning.

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What Lou says sounds good and all but it seems like too many things need to fall in place for the Marlins to come out well here. The Marlins will need the Rangers to eat a huge portion of Young's salary. That means that they need to get good talent in return in order to eat that much money. I'm not sure that Leo Nunez and some throwaway minor league guys will get that done.

 

Obviously if it takes just Leo Nunez (who I think is incredibly replaceable) and company to get Young at a reasonable price, I would have no problems doing so. However, I suspect it would take much more than that.

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What Lou says sounds good and all but it seems like too many things need to fall in place for the Marlins to come out well here. The Marlins will need the Rangers to eat a huge portion of Young's salary. That means that they need to get good talent in return in order to eat that much money. I'm not sure that Leo Nunez and some throwaway minor league guys will get that done.

 

Obviously if it takes just Leo Nunez (who I think is incredibly replaceable) and company to get Young at a reasonable price, I would have no problems doing so. However, I suspect it would take much more than that.

 

Well I agree with the bold completely. They will need to eat a lot of salary, not expect any of our top 15 prospects in return, and eat pretty much Nunez salary so we feel some financial relief as well. It's likely someone else can beat that deal. But I'm just saying, some people are dismissing this and just looking at all the bad things about Young. However, he is a 2+ WAR player at worse, and if we can get that at 3B for around $6 mil a season (market rate) and all we lose is Nunez and non consequential other pieces, it ain't a bad deal for us. Young is very durable, buys a season or two for Dominguez, and would probably be very tradeable to a west coast team in a race if we fall out in 11 or 12.

 

The other reported deal was the Rocks sending Jose Lopez and receiving Young and Cash. At what point does it become unbearable for Texas and it just becomes a straight out salary dump? My guess is mid March when its clear Torrealba is going to catch 100+ games, with Treanor as the primary backup, Napoli sucking up tons of AB at C, 1B, and DH, Moreland starting when Napoli isn't, Murphy taking time at DH, and even though he sucks, Chris Davis is still looming and more than capable of going on a low OBP HR binge one of these years if he's needed for a month, and hell even Max Ramirez is still bouncing around and still has some upside. They are loaded. Young is completely unnecessary to their chances of holding off the vastly improved A's, and literally any pitching they can get for him is a win.

 

So I mean, you say just Nunez. I kind of think, name a better arm for the 2011 season that they could get? He can slot in as setup and let Feliz slowly stretch out his arm and convert to a starter mid year, just what the twins did with Santana.

 

I know it's a huge longshot, I'm just saying. Every player has their value, and I'd emphatically welcome Young with the right deal for the organization. He has some gas in the tank still. He'd make us better if it doesn't destroy 2012-2013 payroll and it costs as only a reliever or two.

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The team is saying that even if Matt isn't ready to make the Opening Day line up, they do expect him up sometime this season. And they are concentrating on an improved defense, so even if Young is average defensively then it is a downgrade there. I understand them asking, but I doubt it was in a serious manner. Always look at the options, then evaluate the price. Add in we get him for 3 years and that partial no-trade clause in his contract. Very short term we get insurance at 3B, long term we get saddled with a guy we really don't need with limited trade avenues. No matter what we had to give up or what salary they are willing to eat, this is just not a good fit. I think it really comes down to that.

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The team is saying that even if Matt isn't ready to make the Opening Day line up, they do expect him up sometime this season. And they are concentrating on an improved defense, so even if Young is average defensively then it is a downgrade there. I understand them asking, but I doubt it was in a serious manner. Always look at the options, then evaluate the price. Add in we get him for 3 years and that partial no-trade clause in his contract. Very short term we get insurance at 3B, long term we get saddled with a guy we really don't need with limited trade avenues. No matter what we had to give up or what salary they are willing to eat, this is just not a good fit. I think it really comes down to that.

 

 

Actually, I think this is a case of what people have been telling you for a long time:

 

They say "We're going to improve based on defense, speed, and pitching" and then they go out and try to improve the team as best they can no matter what the impact on defense. It's about the overall team, not just one aspect of it.

 

Michael Young probably represents an overall upgrade to the team over Dominguez, even if he's worse defensively. If they don't pull the trigger, it won't be because they are worried about the effect on defense. It will be because the costs don't match up. You are being too dogmatic on that phrase.

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What Lou says sounds good and all but it seems like too many things need to fall in place for the Marlins to come out well here. The Marlins will need the Rangers to eat a huge portion of Young's salary. That means that they need to get good talent in return in order to eat that much money. I'm not sure that Leo Nunez and some throwaway minor league guys will get that done.

 

Obviously if it takes just Leo Nunez (who I think is incredibly replaceable) and company to get Young at a reasonable price, I would have no problems doing so. However, I suspect it would take much more than that.

 

Well I agree with the bold completely. They will need to eat a lot of salary, not expect any of our top 15 prospects in return, and eat pretty much Nunez salary so we feel some financial relief as well. It's likely someone else can beat that deal. But I'm just saying, some people are dismissing this and just looking at all the bad things about Young. However, he is a 2+ WAR player at worse, and if we can get that at 3B for around $6 mil a season (market rate) and all we lose is Nunez and non consequential other pieces, it ain't a bad deal for us. Young is very durable, buys a season or two for Dominguez, and would probably be very tradeable to a west coast team in a race if we fall out in 11 or 12.

 

The other reported deal was the Rocks sending Jose Lopez and receiving Young and Cash. At what point does it become unbearable for Texas and it just becomes a straight out salary dump? My guess is mid March when its clear Torrealba is going to catch 100+ games, with Treanor as the primary backup, Napoli sucking up tons of AB at C, 1B, and DH, Moreland starting when Napoli isn't, Murphy taking time at DH, and even though he sucks, Chris Davis is still looming and more than capable of going on a low OBP HR binge one of these years if he's needed for a month, and hell even Max Ramirez is still bouncing around and still has some upside. They are loaded. Young is completely unnecessary to their chances of holding off the vastly improved A's, and literally any pitching they can get for him is a win.

 

So I mean, you say just Nunez. I kind of think, name a better arm for the 2011 season that they could get? He can slot in as setup and let Feliz slowly stretch out his arm and convert to a starter mid year, just what the twins did with Santana.

 

I know it's a huge longshot, I'm just saying. Every player has their value, and I'd emphatically welcome Young with the right deal for the organization. He has some gas in the tank still. He'd make us better if it doesn't destroy 2012-2013 payroll and it costs as only a reliever or two.

I think people look at the bad things about Young because they know the price tag that is attached to him. He's basically a 2-2.5 WAR player. There's nothing wrong with that except that he's set to make way more money than he's worth over the next three years, so people are basically stating the reasons why it's not worth it to dish out the tens of millions required to take on his contract or part ways with the players required (James? Morrison?) for Texas to eat most of that salary.

 

So Young definitely has value, but the problem is that the Rangers already distorted his value with that stupid contract extension.

 

It seems to me that Nunez might be valuable for them, but I also expect that there to be some dollar for dollar comparisons between his contract and Young's contract.

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The team is saying that even if Matt isn't ready to make the Opening Day line up, they do expect him up sometime this season. And they are concentrating on an improved defense, so even if Young is average defensively then it is a downgrade there. I understand them asking, but I doubt it was in a serious manner. Always look at the options, then evaluate the price. Add in we get him for 3 years and that partial no-trade clause in his contract. Very short term we get insurance at 3B, long term we get saddled with a guy we really don't need with limited trade avenues. No matter what we had to give up or what salary they are willing to eat, this is just not a good fit. I think it really comes down to that.

 

 

Actually, I think this is a case of what people have been telling you for a long time:

 

They say "We're going to improve based on defense, speed, and pitching" and then they go out and try to improve the team as best they can no matter what the impact on defense. It's about the overall team, not just one aspect of it.

 

Michael Young probably represents an overall upgrade to the team over Dominguez, even if he's worse defensively. If they don't pull the trigger, it won't be because they are worried about the effect on defense. It will be because the costs don't match up. You are being too dogmatic on that phrase.

I agree with this, by the way.

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Wow, if this deal takes place I think people can calm down about the payroll for awhile. You're going to pay him 6-7 million? It really surprises me they would consider this. I'm calling it a bluff. They're just sniffing around. No way they make this trade...I'd be shocked. Especially with this emphasis on "defense."

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I'm a bit surprised that the Rangers would even be willing to consider such a deal lol.

 

Of course they're probably asking for Dominguez himself...

 

I highly doubt that. They know no one is giving them anything of value. This is going to be a straight dump for them and whoever takes on the most money is going to win for a moderate reliever or backup middle infielder. Literally. I bet the Rangers do it for Nunez and a low level moderate RP prospect, if the Marlins will take on $18 million. Saving the money is a win for the Rangers and everyone knows it. And the Marlins are in a unique position to be "creative" here and take on all the money in 2012 where the new Stadium can deflect salary concerns for at least 1 year.

 

I'm actually really intrigued by this. Dominguez was one of the top 5 youngest players in AA last year, and really wouldn't be hampered developmentally if he plays half a year in AA, the other half in AAA, opens 2012 in AAA, and he is a June 2012 ETA for him. Getting a 2+ WAR player at worst at 3B for a reasonable clip would be enormous for this team.

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