Generally I don't think that defensive statistics are precise until you have close to a full season's worth of innings at the position.

 

I remember at the beginning of the season people were touting how solid Coghlan was in CF, but eventually the numbers normalized.

Even a full season still leaves a lot to noise and randomness, which is why guys will fluctuate from year to year. It's like anything else in baseball, it gets better the more information you have. One season can be just as deceiving as a half season.

South Beach, new ballpark, no sales tax, talented young team... yeah, no reason to come here at all.

 

Back to the matter at hand, if this team intends to compete it will not go into 2012 expecting to play both Infante and Dominguez every day. Bonifacio needs to be playing and that leaves no room for those 2.

 

 

 

I agree with this. The way some posters talk about this team, you could have swore the Marlins were the Cincinnati Bengals of baseball.

 

Its not about how good the Marlins are. Its about how good the top teams in the division are. You would have to be nuts to think the Marlins will be competitive with the Braves and Phillies next year. Why do you think the teams like Baltimore and Toronto can never attract anyone? Who the hell wants to be in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox? Sorry, but yeah, real competitors aint coming here.

 

Did someone really mention Jayson Werth? Yeah, money talks, and the Marlins won't be paying that kind of money to anyone, anytime soon. (Not that I would want them to grossly overpay for someone like him).

The Phillies may die soon, though. They are a really, really old team. I think if the Marlins play it right, we could compete eventually. I don't see it happening next year, though. I don't see how we can make any moves necessary to make that big of a jump. Our only hope is to see our young players develop.

The more I think about it the team management has these strange loyalties to things that don't work. Why did they think CC was going to play cf with a bum knee? Boni should've and should be playing cf. He's a regular player now. He has the talent to do it. This stuff with hanley and JJ has to stop. Is this bad training from the staff? Can we depend on them. I'm starting to have doubts....without them we can't win. Will this change?

With a new stadium on the horizon, owner Jeffrey Loria is ready to "do what it takes" to upgrade the organization. The club's payroll in 2012 is expected to top $70MM and could go as high as $80M

 

this is the only thing that matters.

next season will be exciting.

I'd like to see us get a solid 3rd baseman like Aramis Ramirez, or at least a new closer and a stronger bullpen.

I'd like to see us get a solid 3rd baseman like Aramis Ramirez, or at least a new closer and a stronger bullpen.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the best thing about this team is the depth of the bullpen.

 

Edit: Sorry, I meant second best. Mike Stanton is clearly the answer for best everything.

I was hoping it passes 80. 85 million would be really great. Signing Infante and Dobbs would be great if they're for the bench. I don't want either starting. Hopefully, we sign Wilson or Buehrle. Maybe both?

WTF? How can you not want Infante, back and better yet not starting? Your not going to fine a better defense 2B out there. And like someone said if he hits .270-.300 its perfect. 2B is a defense position, you just been spoiled by the Utley, Uggla and Cano.

Because Bonifacio is better than him and can play 2B. The Marlins need to commit to Bonifacio and develop him at his best possible position. Bonifacio is miscast at 3B, LF, and CF and the Marlins can find better players at those positions than an, at best, 2.5 WAR Infante. I like Infante, but the Marlins simply need to develop Bonifacio and there are more pressing needs, like 600 PA each at 3B and CF that are currently penciled in for Dominguez and Coghlan.

 

I disagree with this.

 

Bonifacio has looked just fine in his time in the big leagues in CF. We don't have a CF'er. Let him play CF.

 

I'm not even a big Infante fan, but he is what he is; we won't find anything better in free agency.

 

Coghlan is garbage. Okay hitters with no position are not that valuable, and I don't really care to have him back next year.

Damn that is harsh Erick. Did he schtump your sister or something ?

He isn't garbage. He isn't a starter, though. He's average.

A healthy Coghlan is an .800 OPS hitter with a solid OBP. But he hasn't been healthy for 2 years.

A healthy Coghlan is an .800 OPS hitter with a solid OBP. But he hasn't been healthy for 2 years.

 

 

"Garbage" was probably harsh, but he's not this either.

 

It's really not fair to call him an .800 .OPS guy when he did it...once...a year in which he had a .365 .BABIP.

 

That's clearly not sustainable and his regressing BB rates/skyrocketing K rates since that year point toward more than just "he's been injured."

 

He wasn't injured every game he played.

 

Then there's the far bigger issue that he has no position.

 

Even if, let's say, he is an .800 .OPS bat (which is probably his max potential), those really aren't that valuable when they have no position.

 

Coghlan has been bad in LF.

Coghlan has been rated below average in CF. Even if you disagree with the sample/your eyes feel differently, there's no denying that his knees are not all that healthy; that's not exactly what you want from your CF'er.

 

The organization seems to want no business with him playing the infield.

 

I fail to see where he fits in, at this point. As a matter of fact, he probably doesn't fit in at all. I find it somewhat surprising that he hasn't even been called up for this last month of the season.

A healthy Coghlan is an .800 OPS hitter with a solid OBP. But he hasn't been healthy for 2 years.

 

I don't think this is accurate at all.

 

He was supposedly healthy last season before the pie incident and he was far from an .800 OPS player then.

 

I'm also a little suspicious of the extent of his "injury" this season. We didn't hear about it until he got demoted (with his super 2 status in jeopardy in addition to his pride). He's also taken himself out of a couple of minor league games (in at least one of them this was after making some gaffes in the field). I have no doubt that something might be nagging him, but most players in MLB have something nagging them and often they just deal. Until I hear something in the media that confirms that he has some real structural damage I will give him a bit more slack, but until then I'm more inclined to believe that his problems right now aren't mostly injury related.

BroncoBob, competitors want to win and give themselves the best chance to do so. No one really wants to play for a team that has no shot.

 

Apparently your use of the term "no one" means you. I just fail to see why anyone would already be writing next season off. Here's an example for ya. After the '02 season, in a trade with Denver, we got JP and Mike Hampton. Hampton outright said he didn't want to come here because he wanted to play for a team that had a shot, so the team immediatly traded him to Atlanta. By immediatly I mean the same day. I do believe that "thumping" you keep hearing is him still kicking himself. Moral of this little story.....You don't write off a season before the season even starts.

 

The two following posts by gizmo and EW tell the story. Although EW mentioning South Beach means very little, the no state tax reason was a good call and something I had forgotten about.

I saw him gimping around as early as late April this year. I agree that a fragile, no-position player has limited value - but I do think he can bring enough doubles and walks to the table to be a valuable offensive player. But he will never stay healthy in CF and wasn't all that good out there anyhow - he wasn't a disaster - just not good.

That doesn't address his horrid performance before his knee injury last season. He got really hot for half of a season (2009), but he hasn't been able to make the necessary adjustments to sustain .800 OPS line.

 

He's been lost at the plate since the end of 2009. Injuries are far from his only problem right now.

Is that Helms he was trying to shaving cream pie? Not even victory celebrations can go right when Helms is involved...

BroncoBob, competitors want to win and give themselves the best chance to do so. No one really wants to play for a team that has no shot.

 

Apparently your use of the term "no one" means you. I just fail to see why anyone would already be writing next season off. Here's an example for ya. After the '02 season, in a trade with Denver, we got JP and Mike Hampton. Hampton outright said he didn't want to come here because he wanted to play for a team that had a shot, so the team immediatly traded him to Atlanta. By immediatly I mean the same day. I do believe that "thumping" you keep hearing is him still kicking himself. Moral of this little story.....You don't write off a season before the season even starts.

 

The two following posts by gizmo and EW tell the story. Although EW mentioning South Beach means very little, the no state tax reason was a good call and something I had forgotten about.

 

2003 was a much, much different team than this, and the division is a lot different as well.

 

We have two teams that will be better than the Marlins regardless of what moves they can be reasonably expected to make. Then you have the Nats and Mets and who will try to improve. Really, the Marlins are in closer competition with those two teams than they are the top two teams..

 

Speaking of the Nationals, they have been throwing out craploads of money at top free agents for years now, but no one until Werth actually agreed to go there.

Kinda interesting-

There is a sense that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria and president David Samson will be taking on bigger roles in making player personnel decisions, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter). That would mean less autonomy for president of baseball operations Admin Beinfest and general manager Michael Hill, who are nominally in charge of baseball moves.

Kinda interesting-

There is a sense that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria and president David Samson will be taking on bigger roles in making player personnel decisions, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter). That would mean less autonomy for president of baseball operations Admin Beinfest and general manager Michael Hill, who are nominally in charge of baseball moves.

Sounds like a disaster.

because usually after listening to David Samson speak, my first thought is "my god, please put this man in charge of MORE things!!!"

Kinda interesting-

There is a sense that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria and president David Samson will be taking on bigger roles in making player personnel decisions, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter). That would mean less autonomy for president of baseball operations Admin Beinfest and general manager Michael Hill, who are nominally in charge of baseball moves.

Sounds like a disaster.

Couldn't agree more.

 

There's no way anything good comes out of this. Maybe Loria is fed up with Beinfest for fielding a last place team.

The ideas from this past offseason were supposedly Loria's ideas. Those turned out magnificent...

Loria and company have been trying to rebuild the exact 2003 team team for years now, which is nearly impossible because everything simply fell into place that year. As much as they would like to take credit for that team, it wasn't really a stroke of genius that put that team on the field....more like dumb luck.

BroncoBob, competitors want to win and give themselves the best chance to do so. No one really wants to play for a team that has no shot.

 

Apparently your use of the term "no one" means you. I just fail to see why anyone would already be writing next season off. Here's an example for ya. After the '02 season, in a trade with Denver, we got JP and Mike Hampton. Hampton outright said he didn't want to come here because he wanted to play for a team that had a shot, so the team immediatly traded him to Atlanta. By immediatly I mean the same day. I do believe that "thumping" you keep hearing is him still kicking himself. Moral of this little story.....You don't write off a season before the season even starts.

 

The two following posts by gizmo and EW tell the story. Although EW mentioning South Beach means very little, the no state tax reason was a good call and something I had forgotten about.

 

2003 was a much, much different team than this, and the division is a lot different as well.

 

We have two teams that will be better than the Marlins regardless of what moves they can be reasonably expected to make. Then you have the Nats and Mets and who will try to improve. Really, the Marlins are in closer competition with those two teams than they are the top two teams..

 

Speaking of the Nationals, they have been throwing out craploads of money at top free agents for years now, but no one until Werth actually agreed to go there.

You always display such a negative attitude. And missed the point entirely.

 

I think I'll just wait and see what happens during the off season, into ST, and the regular season before I throw in the towel.

 

BTW Might want to check out the Nats before you say no other FA ever went there before Werth.