Is the Marlins front office the only one that relies on counting stats to make decisions?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/marlins-trade-logan-morrison-to-mariners-for-pitcher-carter-capps?ymd=20131211&content_id=64588288&vkey=news_mia

 

"I think, ultimately, we felt as a group that we needed to upgrade. That six home runs and 36 RBIs, that just wasn't going to get us to where we wanted to go. We felt in Garrett Jones -- a proven, consistent producer -- anywhere from 15 to 27 home runs on an annual basis was a better fit for us moving forward. So we went in that direction."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the majority of the moves made this offseason. It hasn't been great, but it also hasn't been bad and I think the team has improved (not that that's saying much either to be fair).

 

Either way, how do you evaluate players like this? Do they really think that Morrison is only capable of 6 HR's/36 RBI's? Also, there's a pretty big difference between 15 HR's and 27 HR's on the Garrett Jones evaluation.

 

They are not good at explaining these things and it makes them look even dumber.

I mean what is one to expect from a FO that traded for Carlos Lee

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

See, batting average is also a counting stat. The issue isn't counting stats; they just aren't too bright.

By that logic, LoMo was also successful.

Is the Marlins front office the only one that relies on counting stats to make decisions?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/marlins-trade-logan-morrison-to-mariners-for-pitcher-carter-capps?ymd=20131211&content_id=64588288&vkey=news_mia

 

"I think, ultimately, we felt as a group that we needed to upgrade. That six home runs and 36 RBIs, that just wasn't going to get us to where we wanted to go. We felt in Garrett Jones -- a proven, consistent producer -- anywhere from 15 to 27 home runs on an annual basis was a better fit for us moving forward. So we went in that direction."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the majority of the moves made this offseason. It hasn't been great, but it also hasn't been bad and I think the team has improved (not that that's saying much either to be fair).

 

Either way, how do you evaluate players like this? Do they really think that Morrison is only capable of 6 HR's/36 RBI's? Also, there's a pretty big difference between 15 HR's and 27 HR's on the Garrett Jones evaluation.

 

They are not good at explaining these things and it makes them look even dumber.

I think that's an unduly harsh reading of that. I also think the FO severely underuses sabermetrics, peripherals, etc. But here, it just felt like shorthand for Morrison's lack of production. And that's literally the range of yearly home totals for Garrett Jones over the course of his career, so that's no big deal IMO.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

See, batting average is also a counting stat. The issue isn't counting stats; they just aren't too bright.

I wasn't planning on posting that before I started the thread obviously. The point is, I guess, that they're still relying on traditional statistics (HR's and RBI's from the OP being counting stats) when they have more information available these days.

Is the Marlins front office the only one that relies on counting stats to make decisions?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/marlins-trade-logan-morrison-to-mariners-for-pitcher-carter-capps?ymd=20131211&content_id=64588288&vkey=news_mia

 

"I think, ultimately, we felt as a group that we needed to upgrade. That six home runs and 36 RBIs, that just wasn't going to get us to where we wanted to go. We felt in Garrett Jones -- a proven, consistent producer -- anywhere from 15 to 27 home runs on an annual basis was a better fit for us moving forward. So we went in that direction."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the majority of the moves made this offseason. It hasn't been great, but it also hasn't been bad and I think the team has improved (not that that's saying much either to be fair).

 

Either way, how do you evaluate players like this? Do they really think that Morrison is only capable of 6 HR's/36 RBI's? Also, there's a pretty big difference between 15 HR's and 27 HR's on the Garrett Jones evaluation.

 

They are not good at explaining these things and it makes them look even dumber.

I think that's an unduly harsh reading of that. I also think the FO severely underuses sabermetrics, peripherals, etc. But here, it just felt like shorthand for Morrison's lack of production. And that's literally the range of yearly home totals for Garrett Jones over the course of his career, so that's no big deal IMO.

Big deal or not, it's a stupid way to evaluate a player. You wouldn't even know whether the guy is a power hitter or not by that quote.

Is the Marlins front office the only one that relies on counting stats to make decisions?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/marlins-trade-logan-morrison-to-mariners-for-pitcher-carter-capps?ymd=20131211&content_id=64588288&vkey=news_mia

 

"I think, ultimately, we felt as a group that we needed to upgrade. That six home runs and 36 RBIs, that just wasn't going to get us to where we wanted to go. We felt in Garrett Jones -- a proven, consistent producer -- anywhere from 15 to 27 home runs on an annual basis was a better fit for us moving forward. So we went in that direction."

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the majority of the moves made this offseason. It hasn't been great, but it also hasn't been bad and I think the team has improved (not that that's saying much either to be fair).

 

Either way, how do you evaluate players like this? Do they really think that Morrison is only capable of 6 HR's/36 RBI's? Also, there's a pretty big difference between 15 HR's and 27 HR's on the Garrett Jones evaluation.

 

They are not good at explaining these things and it makes them look even dumber.

I think that's an unduly harsh reading of that. I also think the FO severely underuses sabermetrics, peripherals, etc. But here, it just felt like shorthand for Morrison's lack of production. And that's literally the range of yearly home totals for Garrett Jones over the course of his career, so that's no big deal IMO.

Big deal or not, it's a stupid way to evaluate a player. You wouldn't even know whether the guy is a power hitter or not by that quote.Yeah, they sure do seem to suck.

what explanation do you want? they like HR from Garrett Jones but not from Ruggiano. Case closed.

Who has more World Series' Championships? Jeffrey Loria's Marlins or Billy Beane's A's?

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.

Who has more World Series' Championships? Jeffrey Loria's Marlins or Billy Beane's A's?

Winning a World Series doesn't matter. That is a counting stat also! LOL

Who has more World Series' Championships? Jeffrey Loria's Marlins or Billy Beane's A's?

 

You do realize that Billy Beane isn't the only GM using sabermetrics, right? When was the last time the Marlins did anything? Oh, that's right; it was a decade ago. Things change. Organizations are now smarter than before because there is more access to information than before.

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.

 

I think it's pretty easy to tell when a team is using advanced statistics to acquire players. The Marlins are not one of those teams. Just look at the moves they've made over the years and how they've used/continue to use the players they sign/trade for.

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.

 

I think it's pretty easy to tell when a team is using advanced statistics to acquire players. The Marlins are not one of those teams. Just look at the moves they've made over the years and how they've used/continue to use the players they sign/trade for.

You are correct. Just stating that the A's are the team that brought sabermetrics into the game of baseball, and they have not won a World Series, that's all. I'm not defending the Marlins' front office.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

 

I'm pretty certain now that Redmond is dumber than Ozzie and Fredi were.

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.

 

I think it's pretty easy to tell when a team is using advanced statistics to acquire players. The Marlins are not one of those teams. Just look at the moves they've made over the years and how they've used/continue to use the players they sign/trade for.

You are correct. Just stating that the A's are the team that brought sabermetrics into the game of baseball, and they have not won a World Series, that's all. I'm not defending the Marlins' front office.

Winning a World Series should not be the only measure of success. The Marlins haven't made it to the playoffs in 10 years and were only close a small number of times. The A's have had similar financial constraints and have been in the playoffs three times over that period.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

 

I'm pretty certain now that Redmond is dumber than Ozzie and Fredi were.

 

Sounds to me like Red is just repeating the company mantra. Like any good yes man should.

 

Or you could look at it another way and say he is trying to make the best of what he has been given to work with while not causing any ripples with the FO.

Then again, most of these guys just aren't all that smart and don't do much other than mouth the usual cliches. They almost all exhibit the incoherence of Casey Stengl or Yogi Berra without the unintentional humor.

 

Most of what they say is meaningless. If you ask them the same question two days later, they'll say something else meaningless. Trying to devine some deep meaning from their idle chatter is a fool's errand.

Then again, most of these guys just aren't all that smart and don't do much other than mouth the usual cliches. They almost all exhibit the incoherence of Casey Stengl or Yogi Berra without the unintentional humor.

 

Most of what they say is meaningless. If you ask them the same question two days later, they'll say something else meaningless. Trying to devine some deep meaning from their idle chatter is a fool's errand.

 

 

I suppose if one were to have the outloook on life that "everyone is stupid except me", that is a viable opinion. I just don't buy into it.

 

The second part I can somewhat agree with. But that's just going along with the company mantra and not causing any waves. Causing waves gets you fired in Miami. Red has one year experience as an MLB manager/coach/anything. Think any team is chomping at the bits right now, just hoping he gets fired so they can gobble him up as their next manager?

Obviously Red has been told he's going to start Jones every day, so he has to make some explanation to the media as to why Jones should be allowed to face lefties. Red didn't have much else to work with for that explanation.

I think you're reading a bit too much into this. They may just be using these examples for the public, as the general public doesn't understand advanced statistics.

 

I think it's pretty easy to tell when a team is using advanced statistics to acquire players. The Marlins are not one of those teams. Just look at the moves they've made over the years and how they've used/continue to use the players they sign/trade for.

You are correct. Just stating that the A's are the team that brought sabermetrics into the game of baseball, and they have not won a World Series, that's all. I'm not defending the Marlins' front office.

Winning a World Series should not be the only measure of success. The Marlins haven't made it to the playoffs in 10 years and were only close a small number of times. The A's have had similar financial constraints and have been in the playoffs three times over that period.

Shouldn't winning the World Series always be the goal? My brother plunked $40 bucks on the Marlins to win the World Series in 2003 in Las Vegas, and he thought he was throwing his money away. Until Torborg was fired and McKeon was hired, they were a pretty bad baseball team. If your goal isn't to win the World Series in Spring Training, then you shouldn't be even playing. That is how teams are always judged in history. No one will remember how good the Buffalo Bills were with Jim Kelly......because they never won that Super Bowl.

Well, no, it's not a matter of having an outlook of "everyone is stupid except me."

 

It's a matter of a bunch of ex-jocks (as in coaches and managers) running their mouths with nothing backing it up, so they say the first thing that comes to mind that they think will sound good. Just like they did when they were players. The press, desperate to have something to write about demand that they say something. So they do.

 

It's a constant. They burp up garbage and cliches for fan consumption. Totally meaningless. Trying to devine some deep meaning from their comments is the height of silliness.

 

The idea of Redmond caring about his marketability is nothing but a straw-man. I never claimed any such thing.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mia/manager-mike-redmond-lays-out-potential-plan-for-marlins-lineup?ymd=20131211&content_id=64607744&vkey=news_mia

 

This is a good one from Redmond!

 

Redmond pointed out that a few years ago, Jones fared better against lefties. In 2010, for instance, his lefty split was .220 (47-for-214).

 

"You look at his numbers in the past ... he has been successful," Redmond said. "So I think initially, my thoughts are he can play every single day."

 

Garrett Jones is going to play every day against lefties because he just needs a chance. One time, he got a pretty good chance and he hit .220! Championship.

 

I'm pretty certain now that Redmond is dumber than Ozzie and Fredi were.

 

Sounds to me like Red is just repeating the company mantra. Like any good yes man should.

 

Or you could look at it another way and say he is trying to make the best of what he has been given to work with while not causing any ripples with the FO.

Since when is there a company mantra on platooning players?

 

And wasn't Mike Hill saying just the other day that he sees Jones as a platoon candidate?

 

I think he's just dumb.