But there's a real difference between 90-72 and 92-70.

 

True, for the other 29 teams, but when was the last time the Marlins contended ?.....for us the manager makes no difference.

 

 

Yep, makes a real difference to be 72-90 instead of 70-92......

 

how about the difference between 90-72 and 88-74?

 

 

I like Joe Maddon and everything, but if you go on a Cubs forum, I'm pretty sure you'll find people there who hate the way he manages. 

 

As a matter of fact, I still don't understand what he's doing with his bullpen this year. It seems like he's been overmanaging, but since it's Joe Maddon most people don't bother to question it. 

 

The bottom line is that the Cubs are winning, in large part, because they have a very good team. 

 

Maddon was given credit for the Rays success for years. When he left, everyone in the baseball world thought the team would fall apart. The reality is that they're still very competitive without him.

 

The problem with the Marlins is that they have morons putting the team together -- Dan Jennings being one of those morons. I don't really care who manages the team. We have no minor league system, and, thus, no depth to overcome injuries. So, we suck. No manager is ever going to fix that. 

 

 

I don't think he wants the gig anyway

 

Smart man.....

 

So Admin, what you have been hinting at, is that Loria is going to go out and pay for an "Ozzie" type manager for next season. 

 

Brilliant....paying money to a manager (which we agree is worth maybe a handful extra wins a year), and maybe OVERPAYING him, because he has a name (which Loria loves), instead of using that money more wisely by bolstering the roster on the field.

 

Wow, that's good ownership for you  :rolleyes

 

 

Smart man.....

 

So Admin, what you have been hinting at, is that Loria is going to go out and pay for an "Ozzie" type manager for next season. 

 

Brilliant....paying money to a manager (which we agree is worth maybe a handful extra wins a year), and maybe OVERPAYING him, because he has a name (which Loria loves), instead of using that money more wisely by bolstering the roster on the field.

 

Wow, that's good ownership for you  :rolleyes

 

Uh where did I say anything like that?  I didn't say he's going to hire a "name" just to hire a "name".  I said he's going to hire an experienced manager or that's the goal anyway.  You are just reading into it and drawing your own conclusions like always.

 

 

For those who really care about managers...

 

Who do you want the Marlins to hire, and why? Has anyone noticed that most of the managerial candidates mentioned have already been criticized for something they've done poorly in the past?

 

 

For those who really care about managers...

 

Who do you want the Marlins to hire, and why? Has anyone noticed that most of the managerial candidates mentioned have already been criticized for something they've done poorly in the past?

 

The man I want them to hire is the guy who is currently their main target.  He's experienced, he's respected, and I believe he's a good manager.

 

 

The man I want them to hire is the guy who is currently their main target.  He's experienced, he's respected, and I believe he's a good manager.

 

I know you can't say the name, but that sounds like Gardenhire. 

 

 

 

 

I know you can't say the name, but that sounds like Gardenhire. 

 

Twins are playing better without him.

 

FWIW.

 

Ron Washington baby!  (Alert the coke dealers)

 

 

 

Not happening after the raw deal and way he was treated by that jackass Loria.

 

 

Not happening after the raw deal and way he was treated by that jackass Loria.

 

He wasn't serious Das....

 

 

Just fucking have Jennings quit.

 

Then go hire Dusty Baker.  Taken 3 teams to the playoffs might as well add the Marlins to his extensive resume.

 

 

I'm not basing this on anything beyond my own gut feeling but I think I'd prefer Bud Black over Gardenhire 

 

 

I'm not basing this on anything beyond my own gut feeling but I think I'd prefer Bud Black over Gardenhire 

 

What has Bud Black ever won though?

 

Dusty Baker is a proven winner, evidenced by his storied track record as a MLB manager.

 

 

Dusty Baker is a proven winner, evidenced by his storied track record as a MLB manager.

 

James Andrews agrees

 

 

James Andrews agrees

 

James Andrews doesnt know shit.  

 

PItchers are just babied too much and its a mis conception.  He never ruined any Reds pitchers, he never ruined any Giants pitchers.

 

He gets a bad rap cause of Prior.  Prior had such fucked up flawed mechanics that he would have broken with anyone.  And to an extent Kerry Wood.  But pitchers arent nearly as babied back in the early 2000s as they are now.

 

 

Dusty Baker is a disgrace

 

 

Hire someone that has won and knows what winning is. Hire felipe alou. He had good years with good players on the expos and giants. I know some bad ones but those teams had no talent.

 

 

Hire someone that has won and knows what winning is. Hire felipe alou. He had good years with good players on the expos and giants. I know some bad ones but those teams had no talent.

 

He's retired and 80, may as well hire Jack with that thinking

 

 

Jose got pulled in a tie game with that pitch count?

 

...

 

Of course...

 

 

Hire someone that has won and knows what winning is. Hire felipe alou. He had good years with good players on the expos and giants. I know some bad ones but those teams had no talent.

 

*cough*

 

Dusty Baker

 

*cough*

 

 

I said "pretty irrelevant." Honestly, there's no metric to judge managers so it's impossible to know for sure.

 

And my reply wasn't wrong, statistically speaking. The Marlins haven't been much worse with Jennings managing. They're 22-30 with him and they went 16-22 with Redmond. And, to be fair, it's not Jennings fault that Marcell Ozuna became complete dog shit when he took over as manager. It's not Jennings fault that Stanton got injured. 

 

At the end of the day, what Jennings did wrong was putting this team together when he was the GM. As a manager, he's done some dumb shit, but so has just about every manager. Is there a fanbase in baseball that likes the manager of their team? There are always going to be fans who criticize the manager.

 

I don't care who's managing the team. When Morse is playing LF, Gillespie is starting every night, McGehee is playing 3B, etc., etc. the team sucks. You could bring whoever you want to manage this team -- the team is still going to suck because this team sucks. 

 

I admit that I am making some unsupported claims and perhaps pulling some things out of my ass in terms of quantifying the wins, but I still think that you can deduce that the having a shitty manager vs. a good one has an influence that is not negligible. So I take issue with the "pretty irrelevant" claim.

 

Yes, fans always seem to question the manager and second guess, but that doesn't negate the possibility that someone like Joe Maddon might be considerably better than someone like Jennings.

 

The team is going to suck no matter what, yes, but that's not the point. 

 

 

I like Joe Maddon and everything, but if you go on a Cubs forum, I'm pretty sure you'll find people there who hate the way he manages. 

 

As a matter of fact, I still don't understand what he's doing with his bullpen this year. It seems like he's been overmanaging, but since it's Joe Maddon most people don't bother to question it. 

 

The bottom line is that the Cubs are winning, in large part, because they have a very good team. 

 

Maddon was given credit for the Rays success for years. When he left, everyone in the baseball world thought the team would fall apart. The reality is that they're still very competitive without him.

 

The problem with the Marlins is that they have morons putting the team together -- Dan Jennings being one of those morons. I don't really care who manages the team. We have no minor league system, and, thus, no depth to overcome injuries. So, we suck. No manager is ever going to fix that. 

 

I think your perception of scale is what I'm taking issue with. I am in no way implying that Joe Maddon was a primary reason for the Rays's competitiveness. However, I might suggest that having him being their manager might help them win an extra couple of regular season games as opposed to having someone like Dan Jennings. 

 

And, yes, the primary corrective measures need to be made at the front office level, but that doesn't mean that the Marlins need to settle with an incompetent joke as manager when they don't have to.

 

 

As a general rule of thumb, a competent manager in MLB will have a net zero affect on your team in terms of wins/losses.

 

A great manager can have a net 2-3 wins generally speaking.

 

A bad manager can have a net 2-3 losses generally speaking.

 

A Dan Jennings may result in a net 10 losses generally speaking.