They should have some games with $2 Hot Dogs and drinks. Small promotions like these go a long way.

 

 

The FO needs to smarten up and have $5 seats available. 

 

Get bodies in seats (and make more money at concessions) 

 

For a Monday night game against the Phillies, it’s $47.75 for the 3 least expensive seats in the ballpark if you purchase tickets on the official site.   That is dumb. 

 

theres no way that can be accurate unless there is some sort of special promotion.  IF youre looking on the team site you have to specifically click the lowest priced ticket or else it gives you the best available.  I looked for tickets in a couple weeks and it was like 15 or something for those upper deck OF seats and you can just sit wherever.

 

 

theres no way that can be accurate unless there is some sort of special promotion.  IF youre looking on the team site you have to specifically click the lowest priced ticket or else it gives you the best available.  I looked for tickets in a couple weeks and it was like 15 or something for those upper deck OF seats and you can just sit wherever.

 

Hopefully before you typed, “there’s no way that can be accurate”,  you went on the official site and plugged in 3 tickets for the upcoming Monday night game against the Phillies.  

 

I’m just kidding. There’s no way you did that before posting because then you would have seen the total cost for 3 tickets is $47.75.

 

 

Hopefully before you typed, “there’s no way that can be accurate”,  you went on the official site and plugged in 3 tickets for the upcoming Monday night game against the Phillies.  

 

I’m just kidding. There’s no way you did that before posting because then you would have seen the total cost for 3 tickets is $47.75.

 

I thought you were saying it was 47.75 for each of those 3 tickets.  its 36 for those tickets before the bullshit taxes and convenience fees that you can avoid by just going to the stadium and getting tickets right before the game. that's not expensive at all.

 

 

Why has he received so much hate? Cause he traded away every recognizable name on the damn team. Only a sadist would like that.

 

 

Why has he received so much hate? Cause he traded away every recognizable name on the damn team. Only a sadist would like that.

 

or people who recognized that those "recognizable names" led us to 0 winning seasons, had no hope of leading us to contention any time soon, and helped our payroll balloon out of our means given our market.

 

 

You can accept it with that rationale maybe perhaps but liking it is akin to Stockholm syndrome.

 

 

You can accept it with that rationale maybe perhaps but liking it is akin to Stockholm syndrome.

 

liking it and accepting it as a necessity to building a team for this market that can compete for the playoffs annually are 2 different things.  No one likes trading great players, but many people accept its necessity if you root for the team to compete annually as opposed to just rooting for having great players on bad teams. 

 

 

You're dealing with a very fickle fanbase and what he did is no way to grow or excite that base. He had one chance to win them over and he swung and missed.

 

 

You're dealing with a very fickle fanbase and what he did is no way to grow or excite that base. He had one chance to win them over and he swung and missed.

 

Couldn't agree more with this. Unfortunately. 

 

If and when this franchise is ever in a position to contend again, its possible the South Florida market will by that time have become so turned off to Jeter and this team and for so long that it may not even matter. 

 

That is the risk this ownership is taking.   

 

 

You're dealing with a very fickle fanbase and what he did is no way to grow or excite that base. He had one chance to win them over and he swung and missed.

 

No, he didnt have one chance to win them over.  Pouring money into an already out of our means (payroll wise) team that would have at best been a wild card team and at worst was an injury away from being just as bad was a way to maybe energize a fanbase for a month and maybe also send both them further away and the team further from contention.  

 

If the rebuild works as planned and turns the franchise into a long term annual contender and the team shows a willingness to add to the base of prospects that they will have that hopefully leads to that long term contention via smart free agent additions as well as a willingness to spend in the draft and IFA, the fans will come.  

 

this whole idea that south florida was just clamoring for a new owner and would have immediately started coming to games in droves with the same mediocre team is just so ridiculous and such monday morning quarterbacking.  south florida supports winners.  if we made the same moves and somehow this current team was a contender right now the fans would be there right away.  there is nothing that could have been done that would bring them back overnight. 

 

This was always going to need to be a long term process that did three things to win back the fans:  change the team building strategy of ignoring the draft/ifa and trading away good prospects/cheap players for instant major league impact who are mediocre, change the way the franchise interacts with the community (both in terms of how they view and treat fans and how they interact with local businesses in a way that mirrors how the heat interact with the community), and change the perception that this team is run by a moron without a clue (which is just something that will take time given the history of the franchise).

 

Given time and this rebuild going to plan, the fans will not only be back but they will have a bigger base of fans once this rebuild comes to fruition and shows in a year or 2 that this rebuild was the right thing to do to make this team better on the field and on the balance sheet/income statement and not just a money dump to make investors money.

 

 

I think that the incredibly underwhelming attendance the Marlins had in the first half of 2012 is the most alarming sign of the massive uphill battle that the Marlins have in terms of drawing fans.

 

Brand new climate controlled ballpark, tons of flashy free agent signings, a decently competitive team on paper. Of course that team ended up being a huge disappointment, but besides a prolonged losing steak and the suckiness of Heath Bell, it wasn't plainly obvious that the team was total shit for those first couple of months.

 

I think the Marlins were expecting 32k nightly for most of that season, but fan turnout was closer to 27-28k on average. For a team with tons of hype, playing in a brand new ballpark, those attendance numbers are pretty eye opening.

 

agreed.  that's why i think regardless of the team on the field the most important thing is just changing the way this team interacts with the local community both in terms of fans and corporate outreach. 

 

On the fan part i think the loria ownership just stopped trying after a certain point (and honestly i dont blame them becuase it was a lost cause and i think they knew they were selling soon), but I really want this team to just try and mirror what the heat have done in terms of building a culture around the team that the fans like and trust.  It's just not something that can be built overnight but, and you can call me naive, i do think that it is something that can be built given time.

 

As far as corporate outreach, I do think there is something to be gained from positively interacting with local businesses and companies and building partnerships and just interacting with the community from a business perspective generally.  One thing i really wish they would try (and maybe they have and Publix isnt interested) is to try to have some sort of partnership with publix in terms of promotions and also definitely in terms of ballpark presence.  I think publix subs concession stands at the ballpark is something that would be unanimously popular.  things like that over time can also help build fans back.

 

Overall to me its just a long term thing that the team needs to work on in terms of continuing to show a commitment to on the field performance as well as off the field outreach/involvement.  

 

 

I think that the incredibly underwhelming attendance the Marlins had in the first half of 2012 is the most alarming sign of the massive uphill battle that the Marlins have in terms of drawing fans.

 

Brand new climate controlled ballpark, tons of flashy free agent signings, a decently competitive team on paper. Of course that team ended up being a huge disappointment, but besides a prolonged losing steak and the suckiness of Heath Bell, it wasn't plainly obvious that the team was total shit for those first couple of months.

 

I think the Marlins were expecting 32k nightly for most of that season, but fan turnout was closer to 27-28k on average. For a team with tons of hype, playing in a brand new ballpark, those attendance numbers are pretty eye opening.

 

A lot of that can go back to the fans hating Loria and being unwilling to give him another chance. See my point on Jeter.

 

 

I think that the incredibly underwhelming attendance the Marlins had in the first half of 2012 is the most alarming sign of the massive uphill battle that the Marlins have in terms of drawing fans.

 

Brand new climate controlled ballpark, tons of flashy free agent signings, a decently competitive team on paper. Of course that team ended up being a huge disappointment, but besides a prolonged losing steak and the suckiness of Heath Bell, it wasn't plainly obvious that the team was total shit for those first couple of months.

 

I think the Marlins were expecting 32k nightly for most of that season, but fan turnout was closer to 27-28k on average. For a team with tons of hype, playing in a brand new ballpark, those attendance numbers are pretty eye opening.

 

This is a great point. The city gave up on the 2012 team before they really proved they were horrible.

 

Anyone remember they went 15-5 if I'm not mistaken in the month of May? With baseball being such a long season fans should have invested more into the team before bailing on them. It's kinda scary really.

 

This city might not even support a contender until they've truly proved themselves. We could be in first place an entire season and people might not show up until game 1 of the postseason and that's alarming. One could argue that if the Marlins were like the recent Dodgers and Nationals with multiple winning seasons and postseason appearances but no World Series wins to show for it that the fans wouldn't even show up for that until a championship is actually won. 

 

 

Honestly I don't see any valid excuse for attendance levels to below 32K plus for April-July 2012, maybe even the whole season.

 

I understand why people might have bitter memories of the post-2005 firesale and the Willis/Cabrera trade etc but he got them the stadium (remember how many times the "threat of rain" became the main reason why people didn't go to the football stadium) and he at least made a gesture to putting his cheap ways in the past by signing Reyes, Bell, and Buehrle.

 

The 2012 roster was flawed and some of those signings were ill-advised, but I wonder if the post-2012 firesale still happens if the Marlins had drawn the extra 400-500k fans that the front office was expecting.

 

 

 

 

 

The roster had its's issue but the firesale was dependent on the performance of the team rather than the sales IMO. Unless the Marlins were pretty much selling out every game like the front office expected at the time the time was getting disbanded. 

 

Just having 30,000 people in the park is a freaking nightmare to get in and out of the area. lol

 

We dodged a lot of bullets that offseason. Imagine if we would have gotten CJ Wilson, Albert Pujols who were our original targets. The Angels are still dealing with the Pujols contract and the Wilson contract was horrendous.

 

 

I think we're ignoring the fact that this team hasn't fielded a consistent contender in over a decade. Last time we did, attendance rose every year until we dismantled the team.

 

This is something that this franchise uniquely lacks. This team has never had more than 3 consecutive winning seasons - and those winning seasons are either world series wins or generally lackluster 83-84 win seasons.

 

 

The Marlins averaged 27K + in 2012.  Who here thinks that is bad?

 

I’m sure there is some scientific way to poll a sample of people to determine their sports fan profile and then project that onto the population.  I’m not certain I would be all the keen on buying into the results of a study like that, nor have I actually seen any data of that sort about Miami Sports Fans.  I do have my own ideas though which are not fact based.  Just gut, so seriously take it all with a grain of salt.  Pick any market with all four major sports and you’ll find people that either

 

a) Big Event Fans

 

b) Like all four teams and reallocate time and money from one franchise to another based on success

 

c) Are fervent supporters of one particular local team (maybe two) but not all four.  or

 

d) don’t care at all

 

We have a lot of people living down here, but I can’t even venture to guess how to carve up our population into these four categories.

 

The thing about Marlins attendance conversations is that it is really difficult to debate attendance when you don’t do it in real time.  As has been stated many times on this board, the method for calculating attendance doesn’t reflect the people actually present.  But also, Marlins Park is the smallest stadium in the National League, so if every MLB game sold out for every team the Marlins would still be last in attendance.  That doesn’t mean they’re unpopular.  The Marlins broke the 3 million fan mark in 1993.  That is mathematically impossible in Marlins Park.  There are two teams will smaller parks than Marlins Park: Cleveland and Tampa Bay.  Both teams renovated their stadiums to decrease capacity, so Marlins Park is the smallest park in the major as originally constructed. 

 

One thing to consider about 2012.  It was year two of the LeBron James era.  For four consecutive years the Heat went to the NBA Finals and were playing basketball until the end of June.  In 2012 they won the Finals, which concluded on June 21.  On that day in 2012 the Marlins were 33-37, in fourth place and 8 games out of first place.  Does any of this matter?   I really don’t know.  Maybe the “big event” crowd could only focus on one thing at a time and when basketball ended the Marlins were off the radar.  I don’t watch the Heat.  I can count on one hand how many Heat games I’ve been to and it has been more than ten years since I’ve been.  I go to Marlins games all the time and I watch everyday.  I’m not the right person to opine on this but if there are in fact a lot of Category B fans then perhaps those people weren’t caring much about anything but basketball at the time.  I don’t recall much watercooler talk at the office during that season that wasn’t about basketball. 

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2012-schedule-scores.shtml

 

Home game attendance seemed perfectly fine until the All Star break.  Just a quick glance, aside from Mothers Day (I guess Mom didn’t want to go to the game) they were getting 30K plus a night for all the weekend games.  Tough to complain about that.  On paper I don’t think 2012 looks all that disappointing attendance-wise.

 

One factor that I think makes a major impact on the teams finances is the relationship with the business community.  This is something that without question hurt the Rays under their original ownership group.  That group alienated the business community very early on and the major companies in that area were not willing to support them financially.  The next and current ownership group has to mend bridges to try to get them to buy in.  It is no secret that Loria and Samson weren’t universally loved so I would think that had a negative impact on their ability to establish and maintain business partners.  Hopefully Sherman/Jeter correct that.

 

Psychoanalyzing sports fans is so hard.  I can really only speak for myself and I can really only give it my all for one or two things.  I’m a baseball first guy.  I really like the Panthers too.  We go to a lot of Panther games and fortunately the seasons don’t overlap much at all.  Between those teams I just don’t have the time or desire to give much attention to the Heat or Dolphins.  Maybe we have too many people down here like me that do the same with football and basketball.   

 

 

The previous regime inflated attendance numbers, this is a fact and not speculation. I watched those games, they did not really average 27K in 2012.

 

 

I do. Or at the least incredibly disappointing when you factor in the circumstances I outlined.

 

I also don't think that the other excuses you outline don't really hold much weight. The Marlins are hardly the only MLB team that has to deal with competition from other professional sports.

 

Even factoring in NBA and the big event mentality, the attendance in 2012 should have been better.

 

I’d tend to agree with you.  Just to be clear, I didn’t mean to appear like I’m making excuses.  Measuring local support and defending it is not a hill I’m willing to die on.  I think it is an interesting topic but not one that I would get into a heated debate on.  But I do think sometimes the collective may jump to conclusions and run with a perception that may be baseless.  Anyway I was just making some observations and throwing it out there for conversations.  2012 was certainly an opportunity to shift momentum in a positive direction and I think we all wish things had gone better in the last six years.

 

The one thing that does bother me is the idea of “bad fans”.  I’m sorry but the people who have been going to Marlins games consistently and supporting this team either with attendance, merchandise sales, watching on TV, doing the things we do here, or whatever.  Those are good and actively participating fans.  We just don’t have enough of those kinds of people.  Too often the national conversation mixes that up.

 

 

The Braves also averaged 31,000 in their first season in Sun Trust.

 

And that's in a new ballpark they didn't desperately need and for a 90 loss team. And no flashy free agent signings.

 

And it's probably true that the average Marlins attendance actually was lower than the reported 27,000 based on reported Samson and Loria shenanigans.

 

And the Braves, who have a far greater fan base, offer $7 tickets to every baseball game. 

 

 

Not sure I would use Atlanta as an example of good fan support, in any sport.  And watching many of their games there sure were a lot of empty seats.  We do not know how they count attendance, but could only even get close to selling out one of their recent playoff appearances because the stadium was filled with Cub fans.  Regardless, there is no comparison because they had years of stable and consistent management and product vs the Marlins player transactions.

 

 

And the Braves, who have a far greater fan base, offer $7 tickets to every baseball game. 

 

Braves have shit fans too, they can't even sell out playoff games normally.

 

 

Not sure I would use Atlanta as an example of good fan support, in any sport.  And watching many of their games there sure were a lot of empty seats.  We do not know how they count attendance, but could only even get close to selling out one of their recent playoff appearances because the stadium was filled with Cub fans.  Regardless, there is no comparison because they had years of stable and consistent management and product vs the Marlins player transactions.

 

It’s pretty simple, actually.  

 

The Braves do substantially better than the Marlins do attendance-wise, yet, they offer $7 seats to every game while the Marlins do not. 

 

Therefore, the Marlins are doing it wrong.  

 

I think you’re letting your often blind support of new ownership cloud your understanding of this obvious bad business plan.  

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/attend.shtml

 

 

It’s pretty simple, actually.  

 

The Braves do substantially better than the Marlins do attendance-wise, yet, they offer $7 seats to every game while the Marlins do not. 

 

Therefore, the Marlins are doing it wrong.  

 

I think you’re letting your often blind support of new ownership cloud your understanding of this obvious bad business plan.  

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/attend.shtml

 

Atlanta also built their ballpark in a great area with a literal fucking shopping mall essentially right outside the stadium as well as 2 sick bars in the outfield.  Went to a game there last year and they built their stadium the way the marlins should have attempted to do more of.  I know a bunch of 20 something friends fresh out of college who live in atlanta now and they go to games despite not even liking baseball because there is stuff to do around the ballpark and better in ballpark entertainment.  Contrast that to the marlins stadium in a shitty area with nothing to do outside of the stadium and the clevelander is pretty overrated as an attraction.  Nothing really special about the clevelander and it can be hard to see the game not to mention the drinks are expensive as shit (not really something that most teams dont do, however).  

 

People really dont understand how lacking the marlins stadium is in comparison to other stadiums in terms of entertainment both during the game and before and after games.    Ive been to quite a few stadiums around the league and the marlins rank among the worst in things to do that would attract the casual baseball fan rather than die hard fans.  

 

 

Atlanta also built their ballpark in a great area with a literal fucking shopping mall essentially right outside the stadium as well as 2 sick bars in the outfield.  Went to a game there last year and they built their stadium the way the marlins should have attempted to do more of.  I know a bunch of 20 something friends fresh out of college who live in atlanta now and they go to games despite not even liking baseball because there is stuff to do around the ballpark and better in ballpark entertainment.  Contrast that to the marlins stadium in a shitty area with nothing to do outside of the stadium and the clevelander is pretty overrated as an attraction.  Nothing really special about the clevelander and it can be hard to see the game not to mention the drinks are expensive as shit (not really something that most teams dont do, however).  

 

People really dont understand how lacking the marlins stadium is in comparison to other stadiums in terms of entertainment both during the game and before and after games.    Ive been to quite a few stadiums around the league and the marlins rank among the worst in things to do that would attract the casual baseball fan rather than die hard fans.  

 

I went to Suntrust Park last June.  It’s great just like you said. 

 

But none of that changes the fact that the current Marlins ownership is doing a very dumb thing by not offering $7 (or cheaper) tickets.