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Jon Heyman apologizes, Clark Spencer seeing things differently now...


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 It's also easy to sit here and say "oh in 5 years when the kids have developed they'll be contenders" -  that's not guaranteed either and when the 5 years is up and they're still shitty and still have a trash product with zero entertainment factor, as they do this year, are you going to then say "give them another 5 years? but hey, at least we have minor league depth!"  Even if their roster reaches a level of competitiveness to where they are a couple pieces away from being legit contenders - do you HONESTLY believe that Sherman and Jeter are going to dole out whatever UFA's are set to make that year to try and obtain those pieces - especially with the insane prices they'll be sure to fetch 5 years from now? I sure as shit don't see them doing that when the already pathetic attendance continues to dwindle even more without a single reason to go to a game the next few seasons despite Derek's projections.  That's what most people seem to keep pushing aside here - the Marlins biggest issue has been their inability to draw people to games which limits their ability to keep their own talent and continues this cycle of shit/mediocre seasons. Last year's team had an exciting and YOUNG offense.  It's not the diehard idiots like us who blindly follow the team no matter how much they hurt us that funds the baseball team - it's the casual fan who knows little beyond what they see as a headline. Those are the people who like to have the big parties and bring their idiot friends who just spend half the game staring at their phones and posting they're at the game but nontheless drink like heathens and spend money because it's an "event".  Sherman and Jeter took any hope away of the Marlins being something worth going to for a casual fan.  Those casual fans?  You know what they saw?  They saw the NL MVP being traded away to our new owner's former team.  They saw the best OF last season being swapped out for no-names.  They saw a gold glove, speedy,  batting champ being jettisoned. The casual fan doesn't know/care jack shit about  prospects.  The casual fan isn't going to say "oh i'm going to wait 5 years and then maybe they'll be decent again because I understand this is the proper way to go about it." 

 

The Marlins aren't like other teams such as the Cubs or Astroes with the extreme attendance woes with a completely distrustful community due to a shoddy ownership group. And if Jeter and Sherman truly did want to tear down the team then they could have at least taken some of the money on in order to get better effing prospects than the piles of shit that are out there now (and don't even get me started on leaving Brinson on the big league roster). I would have loved to have seen them come in, tear down the stupid HR statue, and invest in the team a bit to generate some goodwill in a community that has been waiting a long time for even a glimmer of hope. Nope. Just wait another 5 years. We might be worth watching by then. Maybe?  If not, then just keep waiting.  We'll get there eventually!

 

 

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The Marlins aren't like other teams such as the Cubs or Astroes with the extreme attendance woes with a completely distrustful community due to a shoddy ownership group

 

Did you bother to do any research into the astros situation at the beginning of this rebuild?

 

 

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the casual fan also didnt go to any games last year when we were one of the best teams in the league for a 3-4 month period and stanton was having a historic season, so i could give 2 shits what the casual fan really thinks of the rebuild, nor should the casual fan's opinion on team building have any impact on how we are building our team.

 

 

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Too many insults, "if you do not see things as they are then you are stupid and illogical". Why is that necessary?   I can see it from both sides and it is not black and white.  One big point of view is that we were losers last year so why would be be winners with the same team, in fact, fact, fact, it is a given that we would have another losing season.  Really?  My earlier point is that sometimes a talented team makes the leap and that is all I am saying.  Just check out the roster of 2002 and the record-somehow that team, that was 10 games under .500 in 2003 got hot with much the same roster as 2002.  It happens in all sports.  

 

Again, who the F knows if we would have still sucked this year, but it is not so black and white to call people stupid if they are of the opinion that the team could have just flipped it on finally with some additional help.  It is as much a guess as the rebuild being the time proven way to win because the Astros and Cubs did it.  Not sure our talent comes close to the talent they were developing and stockpiling.  Hope it is, I am still a fan and not a casual fan either.

 

 

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Too many insults, "if you do not see things as they are then you are stupid and illogical". Why is that necessary?   I can see it from both sides and it is not black and white.  One big point of view is that we were losers last year so why would be be winners with the same team, in fact, fact, fact, it is a given that we would have another losing season.  Really?  My earlier point is that sometimes a talented team makes the leap and that is all I am saying.  Just check out the roster of 2002 and the record-somehow that team, that was 10 games under .500 in 2003 got hot with much the same roster as 2002.  It happens in all sports.  

 

Again, who the F knows if we would have still sucked this year, but it is not so black and white to call people stupid if they are of the opinion that the team could have just flipped it on finally with some additional help.  It is as much a guess as the rebuild being the time proven way to win because the Astros and Cubs did it.  Not sure our talent comes close to the talent they were developing and stockpiling.  Hope it is, I am still a fan and not a casual fan either.

 

I dont think anybody called you stupid, but that team played about as well as they possibly could have last year considering how few key injuries they had and the career years they got from Stanton, JT, Ozuna, Straily, and Urena.

 

YOu could hope for whatever, but it is highly unlikely that running it back was gonna do anything but make it worse.  

 

And nobody is saying this rebuild is foolproof, but the process is what should be focused on 100 times out of 100 more than the result, and this process is clearly the much better way to rebuild proven time and time again.  Also, both of those teams didnt have any talent at the beginning of their rebuild aside from like 1-2 pieces.  Acting like they started from a place prospect wise where we arent is flat out wrong.  The cubs system was a mess and they had a bunch of overpaid contracts.  The astros had altuve who nobody thought was this good and essentially nothing else.  We actually had a headstart in terms of tradeable pieces that commanded attention on the trade market, and we still do.

 

 

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Too many insults, "if you do not see things as they are then you are stupid and illogical". Why is that necessary?   I can see it from both sides and it is not black and white.  One big point of view is that we were losers last year so why would be be winners with the same team, in fact, fact, fact, it is a given that we would have another losing season.  Really?  My earlier point is that sometimes a talented team makes the leap and that is all I am saying.  Just check out the roster of 2002 and the record-somehow that team, that was 10 games under .500 in 2003 got hot with much the same roster as 2002.  It happens in all sports.  

 

Again, who the F knows if we would have still sucked this year, but it is not so black and white to call people stupid if they are of the opinion that the team could have just flipped it on finally with some additional help.  It is as much a guess as the rebuild being the time proven way to win because the Astros and Cubs did it.  Not sure our talent comes close to the talent they were developing and stockpiling.  Hope it is, I am still a fan and not a casual fan either.

 

Post of the year. 

 

 

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I dont think anybody called you stupid, but that team played about as well as they possibly could have last year considering how few key injuries they had and the career years they got from Stanton, JT, Ozuna, Straily, and Urena.

 

YOu could hope for whatever, but it is highly unlikely that running it back was gonna do anything but make it worse.  

 

And nobody is saying this rebuild is foolproof, but the process is what should be focused on 100 times out of 100 more than the result, and this process is clearly the much better way to rebuild proven time and time again.  Also, both of those teams didnt have any talent at the beginning of their rebuild aside from like 1-2 pieces.  Acting like they started from a place prospect wise where we arent is flat out wrong.  The cubs system was a mess and they had a bunch of overpaid contracts.  The astros had altuve who nobody thought was this good and essentially nothing else.  We actually had a headstart in terms of tradeable pieces that commanded attention on the trade market, and we still do.

 

You completely missed his entire point and you also forgot how terrible our starting rotation was in 2017.  Conley?  Chen? Lol c’mon man just for one fucking time admit we don’t know (either way) that last years team would have been another 77 win team or whatever. 

 

 

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You completely missed his entire point and you also forgot how terrible our starting rotation was in 2017.  Conley?  Chen? Lol c’mon man just for one fucking time admit we don’t know (either way) that last years team would have been another 77 win team or whatever. 

 

conley and chen arent good pitchers.  Urena and Straily also pitched every 5th day and had career years and theres no telling if they stay healthy again.  All im saying is that youre not making the playoffs with that team unless you sign a legit #1/2 and a legit #2/3, and with our payroll structure that simply was not feasible, plus i really dont think you guys understand how little depth that entire organization had.  One of those guys gets injured and just like every year we completely shit the bed for an entire month because we dont have any capable replacements to even step in for a short time and the season is done.  

 

Might we have contended?  Sure, i guess its possible if everything goes right, but sometimes blowing it up and just getting through the inevitable and building it the right way and with a coherent and consistent plan is the right thing to do.    The current ownership/front office isnt to blame.  They inherited a shit show of an organization at literally every aspect.  Building it up with high character young prospects and trying to instill an organizational culture slowly and fiscally smart was the right thing to do as painful as this next year or 2 will be.

 

 

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the casual fan also didnt go to any games last year when we were one of the best teams in the league for a 3-4 month period and stanton was having a historic season, so i could give 2 shits what the casual fan really thinks of the rebuild, nor should the casual fan's opinion on team building have any impact on how we are building our team.

 

Post of the year. 

 

 

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the casual fan also didnt go to any games last year when we were one of the best teams in the league for a 3-4 month period and stanton was having a historic season, so i could give 2 shits what the casual fan really thinks of the rebuild, nor should the casual fan's opinion on team building have any impact on how we are building our team.

 

 Who gets to decide what a casual fan is? Am I a casual fan because I was against the rebuild?  You like lumping people against the rebuild as uninformed, and ignorant casual fans because it fits you're narrative. That couldn't be further from the truth.  

 

Don't forget that the hate for Loria kept many people away from the stadium regardless of how well thge team was doing.

 

Also, you need to realize that the "casual fans" far out number the I guess real fans so it might be a good idea to give a shit what they think if you ever want to get them back.

 

 

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 Who gets to decide what a casual fan is? Am I a casual fan because I was against the rebuild?  You like lumping people against the rebuild as uninformed, and ignorant casual fans because it fits you're narrative. That couldn't be further from the truth.  

 

Don't forget that the hate for Loria kept many people away from the stadium regardless of how well thge team was doing.

 

Also, you need to realize that the "casual fans" far out number the I guess real fans so it might be a good idea to give a shit what they think if you ever want to get them back.

 

You are not a casual fan and I doubt fish20 was referencing you. 

 

With that said I do agree that we shouldn't care what the casual fan thinks even if they outnumber the die hard fans because the vast majority of them just follow the crowd and they'll bitch and moan when we suck but they'll also be there like a bunch of trained monkeys when the Marlins are good again. They sway based on how good the team is even if they outnumber us so why cater to them?

 

Catering to them first is probably a recipe for disaster.

 

Doing what the casual fans think should be done is like asking a kid what they wanna eat for every meal and giving in every time when they say "candy." 

 

 

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You are not a casual fan and I doubt fish20 was referencing you. 

 

With that said I do agree that we shouldn't care what the casual fan thinks even if they outnumber the die hard fans because the vast majority of them just follow the crowd and they'll bitch and moan when we suck but they'll also be there like a bunch of trained monkeys when the Marlins are good again. They sway based on how good the team is even if they outnumber us so why cater to them?

 

Catering to them first is probably a recipe for disaster.

 

Doing what the casual fans think should be done is like asking a kid what they wanna eat for every meal and giving in every time when they say "candy." 

 

I personally know 5 people who were diehard fans for several years and since the Rebuild, have close to zero interest in the Marlins.  It actually makes me bummed out.

 

 

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I personally know 5 people who were diehard fans for several years and since the Rebuild, have close to zero interest in the Marlins.  It actually makes me bummed out.

 

That's ok too. Can't expect every die hard fan to wanna stick it out through the hard times either. Though I ask, do you think they'd be interested again when this team is a serious contender again or are they done for good? 

 

 

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That's ok too. Can't expect every die hard fan to wanna stick it out through the hard times either. Though I ask, do you think they'd be interested again when this team is a serious contender again or are they done for good? 

 

I think we all know the answer to that....

 

 

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That's ok too. Can't expect every die hard fan to wanna stick it out through the hard times either. Though I ask, do you think they'd be interested again when this team is a serious contender again or are they done for good? 

 

3 of the 5 people are family members.  

 

I’d guess all 5 of them would get back into the Marlins if they made the playoffs. 

 

But if the playoffs is 3 or 4 years away, that’s 5 diehards that will go that long not watching games, not attending games and not buying merchandise. 

 

And all 5 of them would still be diehards had there been no fire sale.  So if you start connecting the dots, if I know 5 diehards that were lost in this big city of hundreds of thousands of people...........

 

New ownership lost A LOT of non-casual fans this off season.  They better pray they make the playoffs in less than 5 years because if they don’t I don’t see how they run a pro baseball team with 4,000 fans a night (unless they somehow knock it out of the park with a new TV deal). 

 

 

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If attendance is down this year because of the fire sale it'll pick back up again eventually and be back to whatever it was in 2017. People get mad all the time and then they forget and they come back around. I can understand the attendance dipping immediately after the fire sale but this team did a fire sale in 2005 and 2012 and they still got to whatever attendance 2017 was... all while not making the playoffs for 14 seasons. Not appeasing the casual fans isn't gonna lead this team to contraction or anything else drastic like that. 

 

 

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 It's also easy to sit here and say "oh in 5 years when the kids have developed they'll be contenders" -  that's not guaranteed either and when the 5 years is up and they're still shitty and still have a trash product with zero entertainment factor, as they do this year, are you going to then say "give them another 5 years? but hey, at least we have minor league depth!"  Even if their roster reaches a level of competitiveness to where they are a couple pieces away from being legit contenders - do you HONESTLY believe that Sherman and Jeter are going to dole out whatever UFA's are set to make that year to try and obtain those pieces - especially with the insane prices they'll be sure to fetch 5 years from now? I sure as shit don't see them doing that when the already pathetic attendance continues to dwindle even more without a single reason to go to a game the next few seasons despite Derek's projections.  That's what most people seem to keep pushing aside here - the Marlins biggest issue has been their inability to draw people to games which limits their ability to keep their own talent and continues this cycle of shit/mediocre seasons. Last year's team had an exciting and YOUNG offense.  It's not the diehard idiots like us who blindly follow the team no matter how much they hurt us that funds the baseball team - it's the casual fan who knows little beyond what they see as a headline. Those are the people who like to have the big parties and bring their idiot friends who just spend half the game staring at their phones and posting they're at the game but nontheless drink like heathens and spend money because it's an "event".  Sherman and Jeter took any hope away of the Marlins being something worth going to for a casual fan.  Those casual fans?  You know what they saw?  They saw the NL MVP being traded away to our new owner's former team.  They saw the best OF last season being swapped out for no-names.  They saw a gold glove, speedy,  batting champ being jettisoned. The casual fan doesn't know/care jack shit about  prospects.  The casual fan isn't going to say "oh i'm going to wait 5 years and then maybe they'll be decent again because I understand this is the proper way to go about it." 

 

The Marlins aren't like other teams such as the Cubs or Astroes with the extreme attendance woes with a completely distrustful community due to a shoddy ownership group. And if Jeter and Sherman truly did want to tear down the team then they could have at least taken some of the money on in order to get better effing prospects than the piles of shit that are out there now (and don't even get me started on leaving Brinson on the big league roster). I would have loved to have seen them come in, tear down the stupid HR statue, and invest in the team a bit to generate some goodwill in a community that has been waiting a long time for even a glimmer of hope. Nope. Just wait another 5 years. We might be worth watching by then. Maybe?  If not, then just keep waiting.  We'll get there eventually!

 

Amazing post man.

 

 

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I guess I'm a diehard b/c I have a season ticket package.  And the product on the field this year, in addition to being bad, is boring.  Yesterday was bad - poor crowed, no excitement - really no reason to be at the game.  There is simply no comparison b/w this year's team and last year's in terms of product on the field. 

 

 

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