Miami Marlins Top 32 Prospects

[MiguelDontrelle]

Basically the farm sucked heading into this most recent rebuild because they spent most of 2014-2017 trading away every prospect with a pulse (and draft picks) in desperate win-now attempts. The 2017 trades helped get things back to normal. It's lazy to say the farm still sucks without acknowledging that last year it graduated Brinson/Anderson/Smith/Lopez/Richards/Sierra, which is a lot to lose in one year (literally zero systems can graduate this much on a consistent basis and stay strong - look at how far a team like the Cubs' system has fallen in recent years). Long term I'm not really worried about the farm because draft and IFA spending in 2018 was as good as I can ever remember it being.

 

 

[Admin]

$400 million of the purchase price was inherited debt. They are trying to get out from under that for sustainability. Staying status quo would mean adding to that debt and with the same result, a losing record. They did the only thing they could do by rebuilding.

 

 

[J'Daniel]

Proves the rebuild was the right idea, at least there has been improvement and a trend in the right direction instead of just treading water while also being a losing team in big leagues.

 

To anyone who may have forgot, the old roster produced consistent losing records, while the minor league system was a barren wasteland. Those who hated the idea of a rebuild, seem to live in a fantasy world where a WS contending team was together. It wasn't and they weren't a player or two away from it either before that old argument comes up again.

 

We can't know how bad or good the returns for those players will end up, but in Stanton's case -- we already know our side of it. Even if the players we got back don't help out, it was a giant financial relief. Something that may be appreciated in a few years when he's set to earn over $150 million more and is in a decline. A contract that can be absorbed by the Yankees (see A-Rod) but can't be by a franchise like Miami.

 

I like how you said that "even if it doesn't work out it's a giant financial relief" 

 

Who gives a crap if it's a giant financial relief for them? It doesn't make the games any less painful to watch. It doesn't give the fans any extra "perks" - hell they couldn't even afford to have the AC on during the Summer.   They haven't shown any indication to reinvest in the team outside of spending a few million in the Mesa brothers.  UFA's are going to always cost more than they're worth - a MLB team spends about 7 million to sign a couple guys and we're supposed to be gaga over it?  I gave them credit for doing something in that regard but that's still a pretty basic budget signing in the grand scheme of things when you look around MLB in general.  Would you have rather had VVM or would you rather have kept Yelich? You don't buy a team if you can't afford to give the fans something to actually cheer about - all 32 of them.  As a fan you should never have to get excited over the fact your owners just gained "giant financial relief" unless you're somehow in their wills.

 

Also, when you're literally the very bottom of the farm system rankings there is no place to go but UP, by default.  And again, they moved that entire OF that was insanely good for peanuts - but hey, what a relief because they saved that money?  I know i feel good Jeter can afford more hand sanitizer and maybe to keep the lid closed so the AC can keep people comfy.

 

 

[Admin]

I like how you said that "even if it doesn't work out it's a giant financial relief" 

 

I said even if the players don't work out, you changed what I said. Didn't think this needed explanation but here you go:

 

If Stanton declines in the second half of that deal (very likely), that 30 million a year or so would be going to waste. Now they can spend it elsewhere on players that may contribute, they can't absorb a big deal like the Yanks can. It would have crippled the franchise for years.

 

And before you say, they are cheap and won't spend it -- we don't know that. So far, evidence says they may. They went over slot in the draft and they went for the best IFA.

 

 

[Piazza31]

Bour had no trade value as we discovered. And the team was already a losing team with Bour and Ozuna, so they would have remained a losing team. Just would have been a more expensive losing team, while at the same time having no minor league system and yes, they do have one now even if it isn't the best one. That isn't a sustainable way to run a franchise, to just keep losing up top while having no future in minors. That's the Loria way.

 

That may have been true, but those 4 players I mentioned were controllable assets that could have been here for 3-5 more years. That alone, with everything else we've done would have helped and still been a rebuild.

 

IF everything goes well, Lewis Brinson is another Yelich (he's proven so far to be more Maybin/Hermida than Yelich).

The SP Jordan Y and Harrison will develop into Anibal in his heyday or Ozuna.

 

We could have traded Ozuna for that, or the Cardinals Package.

 

Bour didn't need a major prospect, he just needed one that was cheap and a flyer.

 

That, coupled with the perception next year or two we will fill gaps with Free Agents could have had this rebuild ahead of schedule. Nevermind contracts like Prado and Chen falling off the books.

 

Trading those pieces that had long term value in Stanton and Yelich was short sighted. Those two didn't want a complete tear down/rebuild and having G, Yelly and JT in a lineup with the arms that we showed had potential this year could have been a dark horse from the start. If we added players like the blue jays and sold them off at the deadline it would have been even more fruitful.

 

All I'm saying is, move Gordon, Ozuna, Bour, and the pitchers we moved- and do everything else the same. Aren't we in a better position with Stanton Yelich, and Realmuto long term than Brinson, Cooper, Castro and who know's what we get for JT?

 

 

[Piazza31]

Basically the farm sucked heading into this most recent rebuild because they spent most of 2014-2017 trading away every prospect with a pulse (and draft picks) in desperate win-now attempts. The 2017 trades helped get things back to normal. It's lazy to say the farm still sucks without acknowledging that last year it graduated Brinson/Anderson/Smith/Lopez/Richards/Sierra, which is a lot to lose in one year (literally zero systems can graduate this much on a consistent basis and stay strong - look at how far a team like the Cubs' system has fallen in recent years). Long term I'm not really worried about the farm because draft and IFA spending in 2018 was as good as I can ever remember it being.

 

Drop Brinson and it's still a good graduation rate. I'm arguing the Marlins would be better with Anderson, Smith, Lopez, Richards and Sierra long term paired with Yelich and Stanton in the lineup.

 

Then add the Mesa's into that in a year or two.

 

 

[Piazza31]

$400 million of the purchase price was inherited debt. They are trying to get out from under that for sustainability. Staying status quo would mean adding to that debt and with the same result, a losing record. They did the only thing they could do by rebuilding.

 

This team is more marketable with Stanton, Yelich and now JT than without.

 

 

[SilverBullet]

This team is more marketable with Stanton, Yelich and now JT than without.

 

Yeah proven by the insanely high attendance we had from 2013-2017. 

 

 

[MiguelDontrelle]

I'm arguing the Marlins would be better with Anderson, Smith, Lopez, Richards and Sierra long term paired with Yelich and Stanton in the lineup.

 

I don't necessarily disagree w this. I think they just really wanted out of the Stanton deal (which I get). Whether or not they "had" to trade Yelich is debatable.

 

 

[SilverBullet]

They absolutely didn't have to trade Yelich but with the value he had they thought taking advantage of his desire to want out was a good opportunity to advance the rebuild. I can't blame them for thinking that. With that said I think they rushed into the return package but I don't think the idea behind the trade was bad. 

 

 

[rmc523]

Yeah proven by the insanely high attendance we had from 2013-2017. 

 

Attendance obviously wasn't good, but you cannot legitimately argue that Yelich, Stanton, and Realumto on one team would not be much more marketable than the bag of peanuts we have now (not to say a star can't come out of the new crop, but still).

 

 

[Admin]

Attendance obviously wasn't good, but you cannot legitimately argue that Yelich, Stanton, and Realumto on one team would not be much more marketable than the bag of peanuts we have now (not to say a star can't come out of the new crop, but still).

 

If having the best OF in baseball including a guy chasing 60 homers in a year where the all star game is in your park isn't marketable enough to bring people to the stadium, then nothing is really at this time.

 

 

[rmc523]

If having the best OF in baseball including a guy chasing 60 homers in a year where the all star game is in your park isn't marketable enough to bring people to the stadium, then nothing is really at this time.

 

Well, my comment was more in a vacuum/theory.

 

 

[Admin]

Well, my comment was more in a vacuum/theory.

 

I know but we already have solid evidence of that not working so the theory was disproven in this case.

 

 

[Piazza31]

Yeah proven by the insanely high attendance we had from 2013-2017. 

 

Not facing Public Relations Disaster from trading two MVP's and the best catcher in baseball is where the marketing comment was coming from.

This markets so used to dealign away players it's the only excuse it NEEDS to have as to why our attendence sucks.

 

 

[THRILLHO]

It would have been wrong to consider marketing and popularity when making decisions about direction last year.  As had been stated numerous times, the team wasn’t drawing with those guys and they weren’t winnng either.  The farm was depleted and the road to the playoffs was going to be long, expensive, and risky if we didn’t cut bait with expensive contracts and deal valuable assets for real actual value.  Whatever public relations backlash occurs from doing that is not a big deal because the team wasn’t popular as it was.  To me it’s a no brainer

 

 

[Admin]

Not facing Public Relations Disaster from trading two MVP's and the best catcher in baseball is where the marketing comment was coming from.

This markets so used to dealign away players it's the only excuse it NEEDS to have as to why our attendence sucks.

 

If they only traded Gordon, Ozuna and Bour (your concept) it would have been just as much of an excuse for those same fans to not go and it would have still been called a firesale.

 

 

[Piazza31]

They absolutely didn't have to trade Yelich but with the value he had they thought taking advantage of his desire to want out was a good opportunity to advance the rebuild. I can't blame them for thinking that. With that said I think they rushed into the return package but I don't think the idea behind the trade was bad. 

 

The truth is Yelich wanted out because Stanton was gone.

 

Keep Stanton, and look at them as two players for $193MM until 2022 (when Yelich is a FA). Thats $100 a player in the OF for 5 years of production. That's not a bad deal.

 

If Stanton opted out in 2020 (lets say he hated the rebuild and he wanted out at all costs) its $135MM for 3 more years of stanton and 5 years of yelich (hell of a deal).

 

Keeping Stanton and never trading him would have shown this market that money wasn't an issue at all, its about value. We got garbage for him, it was a total salary dump and we shouldnt have been forced to take castro back.

 

They should have paid down more to get players from houston, LA, or Chicago.

 

 

[Piazza31]

It would have been wrong to consider marketing and popularity when making decisions about direction last year.  As had been stated numerous times, the team wasn’t drawing with those guys and they weren’t winnng either.  The farm was depleted and the road to the playoffs was going to be long, expensive, and risky if we didn’t cut bait with expensive contracts and deal valuable assets for real actual value.  Whatever public relations backlash occurs from doing that is not a big deal because the team wasn’t popular as it was.  To me it’s a no brainer

 

Not for nothing, but did the Stanton and Yelich trades really fix the farm? Those two trades taken out and everything else the same, this team is in a better position.

 

 

[Admin]

If Stanton opted out in 2020 (lets say he hated the rebuild and he wanted out at all costs)

 

There is no chance in hell he was opting out or will opt out, unless he has multiple MVP seasons leading up to the opt-out and even then he may not. He's owed a shitload and it is far from a guarantee he could get more than that as a FA. He wasn't going to risk tons of money rebuild or not.

 

 

[Admin]

Not for nothing, but did the Stanton and Yelich trades really fix the farm? Those two trades taken out and everything else the same, this team is in a better position.

 

Stanton's contract is gone which is a net positive for the team's future itself. If the players we got for him contribute even better. Yelich's return can't be decided yet, it needs multiple seasons to see how those guys turn out

 

 

[Piazza31]

If they only traded Gordon, Ozuna and Bour (your concept) it would have been just as much of an excuse for those same fans to not go and it would have still been called a firesale.

 

True, but the more than casual fans would have looked at it as

 

trading a player who never played up to his contract post PED suspension

Ozuna wouldnt be resigning (same as JT now)

Bour (nice but not reliable).

 

It was absolutly a firesale, I'm just arguing the teams in a better spot with those two guys and then JT than without.

 

Heck, look how most on the board now want JT gone because he won't resign and if he does its for stupid money. We would have done that with Ozuna instead LAST year rather than 2 offseasons of turmoil from the perception "we're cheap"

 

I think JT would have taken 5/70 if Yelich and Stanton were still here. Once Stanton was gone, both of them wanted out. It was about friendship with those three, not the money. Stanton wanted out because he knew it would be a firesale and he'd be left without his friends, and the others wanted out because they lost their friend and didn't have any more faith. Keep those three, and I truly believe the team is in a way better spot now, and in the future.

 

 

[Piazza31]

There is no chance in hell he was opting out or will opt out, unless he has multiple MVP seasons leading up to the opt-out and even then he may not. He's owed a shitload and it is far from a guarantee he could get more than that as a FA. He wasn't going to risk tons of money rebuild or not.

 

He might not have opted out, but its still a better team with him than without. That and if it came down to it, I'm sure theres insurance on his contract in case of injury or death. The Mets have one on Cespedes, and had one on a career ending injury for wright.

 

 

[Piazza31]

Stanton's contract is gone which is a net positive for the team's future itself. If the players we got for him contribute even better. Yelich's return can't be decided yet, it needs multiple seasons to see how those guys turn out

 

We are probably going to have to agree to disagree, but does Brinson, Harrison and the SP Jordan have a legit chance to be Gold Glovers and Silver Sluggers / a 2 or 3 SP? I'm basing Yelich on what he did here, not his MVP season.

 

 

[THRILLHO]

Not for nothing, but did the Stanton and Yelich trades really fix the farm? Those two trades taken out and everything else the same, this team is in a better position.

 

I don’t think any one or two trades fixes an organization. But all things considered I agree with the direction they chose