This team is a joke. There is no plan to add anything of real value...nor should there be. They have hamstrung themselves and really just need to wait.

The Loria led Marlins seriously fucked the team. It was all the impulsive terrible decisions that deprived the team of anything that resembled a farm system. Oh, Fernando Rodney is available after 2 good months? Give them Chris Paddack. He won't amount to anything. Dan Straily available? Looks like we don't need Luis Castillo anymore.

 

The team was in such a terrible place that it will take years to recover from it. You don't just sign 2 pitchers and then magically have a great team. I'm sure the Astros fans of 2011-2013 hated their rebuild. I'm sure the Nationals fans of 2008-2010 felt the same way. There is light at the end of the tunnel. The way the team is being run is 1000 times better than the Loria days. They have not traded talent to get rid of bad contracts like Loria might do. They have spent all the way to the cap on both draft money and international FA money. And at least they aren't doing the impulsive moves like trading Alcantara for Mazara anymore. They are building the team the right way.

 

And as to the division competitiveness, trust me when I say that in 3-5 years Washington, New York, and Philly are gonna be in a mess that will take years to overcome. The division will eat itself alive and the Braves are the only team that I see surviving by the time the Marlins are ready to compete.

The Loria led Marlins seriously fucked the team. It was all the impulsive terrible decisions that deprived the team of anything that resembled a farm system. Oh, Fernando Rodney is available after 2 good months? Give them Chris Paddack. He won't amount to anything. Dan Straily available? Looks like we don't need Luis Castillo anymore.

 

The team was in such a terrible place that it will take years to recover from it. You don't just sign 2 pitchers and then magically have a great team. I'm sure the Astros fans of 2011-2013 hated their rebuild. I'm sure the Nationals fans of 2008-2010 felt the same way. There is light at the end of the tunnel. The way the team is being run is 1000 times better than the Loria days. They have not traded talent to get rid of bad contracts like Loria might do. They have spent all the way to the cap on both draft money and international FA money. And at least they aren't doing the impulsive moves like trading Alcantara for Mazara anymore. They are building the team the right way.

 

And as to the division competitiveness, trust me when I say that in 3-5 years Washington, New York, and Philly are gonna be in a mess that will take years to overcome. The division will eat itself alive and the Braves are the only team that I see surviving by the time the Marlins are ready to compete.

[/quote\]

 

The worst part is, everyone here knew they were bad trades at the time. It’s not like Castillo & Paddack were coin flips.

 

Everyone knows this regime sent off some talented OF’ers, but no one (in the media) talks about how big of a gaff those two deals were.

The Loria led Marlins seriously fucked the team. It was all the impulsive terrible decisions that deprived the team of anything that resembled a farm system. Oh, Fernando Rodney is available after 2 good months? Give them Chris Paddack. He won't amount to anything. Dan Straily available? Looks like we don't need Luis Castillo anymore.

 

The team was in such a terrible place that it will take years to recover from it. You don't just sign 2 pitchers and then magically have a great team. I'm sure the Astros fans of 2011-2013 hated their rebuild. I'm sure the Nationals fans of 2008-2010 felt the same way. There is light at the end of the tunnel. The way the team is being run is 1000 times better than the Loria days. They have not traded talent to get rid of bad contracts like Loria might do. They have spent all the way to the cap on both draft money and international FA money. And at least they aren't doing the impulsive moves like trading Alcantara for Mazara anymore. They are building the team the right way.

 

And as to the division competitiveness, trust me when I say that in 3-5 years Washington, New York, and Philly are gonna be in a mess that will take years to overcome. The division will eat itself alive and the Braves are the only team that I see surviving by the time the Marlins are ready to compete.

I'm not so sure that in 3-5 years those 3 teams will be in utter ruin for years on end simply because those teams are also willing to spend big $$$ to immediately fix issues with their teams. There's also no way to tell that in that same time frame they won't either acquire or strike gold during a draft and have some new blue chip prospects via the draft, scouting, etc.. It's a lot to bank on and I think the bulk of us are seriously tired of the continual mantra of "wait just 2-3 years more!".

I'd be more excited if we had some true superstar prospects waiting in the wings that seem like a sure thing like we have in the past. I'm NOT saying the farm sucks but its high ranking is due largely to the quantity of solid prospects rather than the presence of a couple guys that are the envy of the league. I'm not hating on the farm system at all - they've done a great job of stocking it with quality -they just don't have those guys that look like they'd be household names and take the league by storm.

I will NEVER agree with the way Jeter and Sherman assumed control of the team. That was, and always will be, my biggest complaint about them. It was an utter shit show and PR nightmare for a team that always had the perception of being on rocky ground with their fans and for a fleeting moment had a chance to really repair that relationship a bit with a fresh new group including a respected face in Jeter. No amount of future success will ever change that ugly transition period.

I do see a lot of positives around the things they've done though. They've spent more wisely by actually working the international draft and it does appear their scouting is far superior to the previous group so I do have hope there that it will continue and they'll eventually come away with some legit big stars. The Villar signing was a no brainer so I would have had SERIOUS doubt if they hadn't come away with him. I commend them for making sure that he ended up in Miami.

But yeah, tired of the whole "just keep waiting and eventually we'll be better while those other teams will be worse." You can't really bank on other teams to be worse, especially when they have deep pockets and can throw money to cover their mistakes. Also, prospects are just prospects until they can prove themselves at the big league level. It's quite possible the bulk of Miami's prospects will be Brinsons. Not trying to be pessimistic but it's 100% possible. It's also possible that they'll take the league by storm - again - that's why you just can't keep living by the "wait a few years and we'll be so much better and the rest of the division will be so much worse".

That, and I think I speak for nearly everyone here when I say I want to win NOW.

I will NEVER agree with the way Jeter and Sherman assumed control of the team

Assuming you're talking about the immediate fire sale I don't agree with this line of thinking. Let the casual fans think that was the wrong way to start their ownership but any Marlins fan who truly understood where that team was should know that, unless a multi billion dollar corporation had bought the team, there was no other way to move forward than to purge themselves of Stanton's contract and the other major expenses of the team. The team was already in a deep hole, despite what the casual fans think, and trying to throw more money on that flawed team would have led to even more trouble in the future and eventually that firesale was coming anyways so I think getting that horrible period out of the way first and then rebuilding not just the organization but also the relationship with the fans from there forward was the best way to do it.

 

The more I think about it the more keeping that team together and increasing payroll for false hope and then having to rebuild like now in 2020 or 2021 would have been even more disastrous because the fanbase would have said "you lied to us saying you could keep this team together and you waited 3 years to then pull a firesale and screw us!"

 

Coming in and doing the teardown from day one while saying "we have to do this now so that we have a better future" sure sounds like the lesser of the two evils to me.

I'm not so sure that in 3-5 years those 3 teams will be in utter ruin for years on end simply because those teams are also willing to spend big $$$ to immediately fix issues with their teams.

The way the Nationals have been doing deferred contracts is going to cripple them financially in a few years. Scherzer will not be Cy Young quality forever and the young players they have are not going to be able to sustain them. They have already lost Rendon. More then likely they end up like the overstretched Phillies from 7 years ago and collapse into a rebuilding club. The Mets have been run horribly the last few years. They have traded the farm to get guys like Cano and Stroman who will not help them in the long run. The Phillies are spending "stupid money" as in bad moves in the attempt to make it seem like they are trying. They were the biggest spenders last off season and all it got them was a 4th place finish and a losing record against us. The Braves actually had a low key off season last year and they were the most competative team. Just looking at the roster makeup, the Braves are the only one set up for the long haul. Maybe the rest won't be complete dumpster fires, but I don't think any of them will be a legitimate contender.

I'm not so sure that in 3-5 years those 3 teams will be in utter ruin for years on end simply because those teams are also willing to spend big $$$ to immediately fix issues with their teams. There's also no way to tell that in that same time frame they won't either acquire or strike gold during a draft and have some new blue chip prospects via the draft, scouting, etc.. It's a lot to bank on and I think the bulk of us are seriously tired of the continual mantra of "wait just 2-3 years more!".

I'd be more excited if we had some true superstar prospects waiting in the wings that seem like a sure thing like we have in the past. I'm NOT saying the farm sucks but its high ranking is due largely to the quantity of solid prospects rather than the presence of a couple guys that are the envy of the league. I'm not hating on the farm system at all - they've done a great job of stocking it with quality -they just don't have those guys that look like they'd be household names and take the league by storm.

I will NEVER agree with the way Jeter and Sherman assumed control of the team. That was, and always will be, my biggest complaint about them. It was an utter shit show and PR nightmare for a team that always had the perception of being on rocky ground with their fans and for a fleeting moment had a chance to really repair that relationship a bit with a fresh new group including a respected face in Jeter. No amount of future success will ever change that ugly transition period.

I do see a lot of positives around the things they've done though. They've spent more wisely by actually working the international draft and it does appear their scouting is far superior to the previous group so I do have hope there that it will continue and they'll eventually come away with some legit big stars. The Villar signing was a no brainer so I would have had SERIOUS doubt if they hadn't come away with him. I commend them for making sure that he ended up in Miami.

But yeah, tired of the whole "just keep waiting and eventually we'll be better while those other teams will be worse." You can't really bank on other teams to be worse, especially when they have deep pockets and can throw money to cover their mistakes. Also, prospects are just prospects until they can prove themselves at the big league level. It's quite possible the bulk of Miami's prospects will be Brinsons. Not trying to be pessimistic but it's 100% possible. It's also possible that they'll take the league by storm - again - that's why you just can't keep living by the "wait a few years and we'll be so much better and the rest of the division will be so much worse".

That, and I think I speak for nearly everyone here when I say I want to win NOW.

I'm no fan of Jeter. I think I wore out the #FuckJeter hash tag the 1st season. However, at some point I had to accept that there was no point in complaining about it anymore. It was either that or hope that Jeter and company fail which would be the worst thing for the fish. It is what it is.

 

At this point I would rather not make a large investment in any free agents. Stick to the youth movement. Let the young guys continue to develop. Continue to invest in international free agents and the amateur draft. The most important thing this season is to identify our core. The money should be saved for extending the core and for a possible big splash in free agency when we are ready to contend.

 

Also, there's no way that 100% of our prospects are going to turn out like Brinson. On the pitching side alone we have elite prospects like Sanchez and Cabrera. Braxton and Rogers are close to elite as well. Also, with Monte, Sanchez, Lewin, Chisholm, Diaz, Scott and Bleday, I think we will hit on a few on those too.

 

The future is bright. Stick to the process. This is the way.

 

 

And as to the division competitiveness, trust me when I say that in 3-5 years Washington, New York, and Philly are gonna be in a mess that will take years to overcome. The division will eat itself alive and the Braves are the only team that I see surviving by the time the Marlins are ready to compete.

 

I buy the Nationals. Mets are getting ready to be sold, they will act like a New York team finally after thats done, so that will increase their competiveness.

 

The Phillies have no problem spending money and I trust their front office can build a fairly decent farm system to supplement their free agents.

I don't think you need to go zero to 60 on free agent spending. I don't believe you have to wait until it is time to contend to start spending a little. I don't want them handing out 300 million contracts this off-season, but there is no reason they couldn't go after a guy seeking say 70 million total. They seem opposed to even go there, That to me is a really bad sign. They seem to want to only sign a guy if he'll take a below market deal thus far, when they have a ridiculously low payroll in 2020.

 

You can "stick to the process" while also showing you can spend a little and improve the on-field product at the same time. Signing a guy like Castellanos on a multi year deal shows you'll spend and it also would be for a guy who would still be on the team when they should be contending.

I agree with this for the most part. What I don't want is to block Monte Harrison, Jesus Sanchez, Conor Scott, JJ Bleday Etc. Harrison, and Sanchez should ready early in 2020. Also, lets see more of Sierra, and Ramirez. Let's what Cooper can do for a full season if he can stay healthy. Also, Brinson should hopefully get one more opportunity. Maybe it clicks for him. He certainly has all of the tools.

 

I'm more worried about the at bats for the young guys than the money. However, you're not wrong about Marlins lack of desire to spend big money on free agents. Although, they are showing a willingness to spend in other areas so it might just be an unwillingness to stray to far off of the current path. Only time will tell.

 

I don't want to be in the Cubs and Indians situation down the line. They did a great job building it up but they didn't extend their core. It only gave them a short window to compete. Now, Lindor is on the block and Kluber is gone. All of the Cubs are on the block because they didn't develop pitching and had to sign pricey free agent pitchers. Even the Astros are looking at what they can get for Correa. It's insane that teams can't keep young generational talents locked up long term.

 

If that happens here it will be labeled another fire sale. After building this back up, the fan base won't tolerate another rebuild. The Marlins have to get this right for the long term and build a sustainable winner. That might mean adhering strictly to the process.

I don't think you need to go zero to 60 on free agent spending. I don't believe you have to wait until it is time to contend to start spending a little. I don't want them handing out 300 million contracts this off-season, but there is no reason they couldn't go after a guy seeking say 70 million total. They seem opposed to even go there, That to me is a really bad sign. They seem to want to only sign a guy if he'll take a below market deal thus far, when they have a ridiculously low payroll in 2020.

 

You can "stick to the process" while also showing you can spend a little and improve the on-field product at the same time. Signing a guy like Castellanos on a multi year deal shows you'll spend and it also would be for a guy who would still be on the team when they should be contending.

This team would be really stupid to not try to sign Castellanos and showing all the fans they care to win.

@SonOfJack , do you think this new regime seems always testing the loyalty of the little left diehard fans like us ?

 

 

I don't want to be in the Cubs and Indians situation down the line. They did a great job building it up but they didn't extend their core. It only gave them a short window to compete. Now, Lindor is on the block and Kluber is gone. All of the Cubs are on the block because they didn't develop pitching and had to sign pricey free agent pitchers. Even the Astros are looking at what they can get for Correa. It's insane that teams can't keep young generational talents locked up long term.

 

 

 

Eh, the Indians signed up a number of guys, Kluber is getting up in age and he really showed signs of regression before his broken arm last year. Lindor has shown no interest in signing and extension. I applaud the Indians, they took their shot and while they didnt win it all, they made a legit effort to do that. Tear it down some, get some new cards and come back in a few years. Competent front office, so its possible.

 

The Cubs problem is that they have spent money not wisely in addtion to not being able to really develop any pitching outside Kyle Hendricks. They have that Heyward contract which is a giant weight on their payroll. Kris Bryant is not signing with the Cubs period. Its partially their own fault for manipulating his service time.

 

The Astros are a team that can only sign so many pieces. They have a lot tied up to Altuve (core), Bregman (core), Verlander, and Grienke. They want to sign Springer (core). Thats not how the economics work. I'd move Correa also if I can, with his injury history, I'd prefer moving him out if I can get fair value in return. And fuck the Astros for cheating.

Eh, the Indians signed up a number of guys, Kluber is getting up in age and he really showed signs of regression before his broken arm last year.

Was he showing signs of regression, though, or was that the injury? He is getting on the downward side of his career, yes, 33 years old and will be about to turn 34 on Opening Day, but back to the regression discussion.

 

He was essentially the same pitcher 2014-2018. Minor jumps in his K/9 rate in 2014 and 2017 but other than that, same pitcher. In fact you could argue he was IMPROVING from 2016 through 2018. His walk rates were decreasing (2.39 to 1.59 to 1.42) with just about everything else staying constant.

 

It is possible that he doesn't come back from this injury as good as that, especially given the age. But I don't believe he was regressing whatsoever.

And fuck the Astros for cheating.

There must be magic in the air ,first I wanted to kiss @Michael and now I agreed with you

There must be magic in the air ,first I wanted to kiss @Michael and now I agreed with you

So you want to kiss him as well?

So you want to kiss him as well?

Things are heating up around here!

Things are heating up around here!

It is going to be winter in 5 days, you living in the future?

So you want to kiss him as well?

sir please banned yourself

living in this hell hole called Miami don't need to be in the future to heat up or Winter

Was he showing signs of regression, though, or was that the injury? He is getting on the downward side of his career, yes, 33 years old and will be about to turn 34 on Opening Day, but back to the regression discussion.

 

He was essentially the same pitcher 2014-2018. Minor jumps in his K/9 rate in 2014 and 2017 but other than that, same pitcher. In fact you could argue he was IMPROVING from 2016 through 2018. His walk rates were decreasing (2.39 to 1.59 to 1.42) with just about everything else staying constant.

 

It is possible that he doesn't come back from this injury as good as that, especially given the age. But I don't believe he was regressing whatsoever.

 

I mean he posted a 5 plus ERA before breaking his arm, so....

Unless the Marlins are smoke screening everyone on a Castellanos and/or Ozuna, I dont know what the fuck they are waiting for.

Unless the Marlins are smoke screening everyone on a Castellanos and/or Ozuna, I dont know what the fuck they are waiting for.

They are waiting for a going out of business type sale.

[MEDIA=twitter]1206693179791159297[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA=twitter]1206706281656078337[/MEDIA]

They are waiting for a going out of business type sale.

 

same shit different owners.