4 hours ago, Iowa said:

High level trade.. Pablo for Andrew Vaughn. They'd need Cooper and Miggy but I'd do it

Just what the Marlins need....

Another 1b/corner outfielder/DH

And one who has struggled in a hitters park, would hate to see him in a pitchers park. 

Hard pass. Especially at that proposed price. 

Oh and I've said since this ownership group took over that in order to attract big free agents they are going to have to do a Jayson Werth deal where they overspend for a free agent, but it also sends a message that you are serious about being a MLB franchise.

The Nationals were overcoming the Expos days and stench.

The Marlins are well the Marlins.  

You have to show to the industry that you are serious.  In order to do that, they have to overspend, reality is reality. Sorry. 

5 hours ago, Das Texan said:

2020 was an awful thing for the organizational development of the Marlins honestly.  Them making the playoffs raised some unreal expectations.

They really were not in any position to capitalize on that momentum unfortunately and well Sherman doesnt understand the market and the strike while the iron is hot mentality.

That said, there is no excuse for being miserly when MLB is fucking awash with cash.  

Just this year alone, MLB owners added the Peacock deal (smallish), the Apple deal (bigger) and the expanded playoffs (bigger payday).

 

Meanwhile, you have Sherman giving eyewash and spending a few dollars on guys like Soler and Garcia (same type of player in reality and doesnt address their biggest needs).  The Marlins even giving this moronic impression that Garcia could play some CF shows you how little they think of the fan base honestly.

The upper level depth especially in the infield is appalling .  Two years in a row.  

Its cute all this talk about x,y,z taking their game to the next level while basically ignoring two big factors.

1. Regression of other players

2. Injury

I have no idea what the actual direction of this organization is.  Its largely a product of Sherman being cheaper and worse than Jeff Loria (which says a lot).  But some of the depth decisions (that should fit into Sherman's miserly budget) makes no fucking sense.  

Granted the team had to spend 13 million on Soler they didnt intend to spend because Sherman had to prove that Jeter wasnt right, and Soler was the only one to take their money, so that is what it is.  

 

Same day, different cast of characters as always. 

Agree strongly with the bolds.

They need to open up the payroll to $100-110m next year and make at least 1 big Pablo/prospect trade for an epic bat. It's really just that easy.

For this year, pray?

5 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Oh and I've said since this ownership group took over that in order to attract big free agents they are going to have to do a Jayson Werth deal where they overspend for a free agent, but it also sends a message that you are serious about being a MLB franchise.

The Nationals were overcoming the Expos days and stench.

The Marlins are well the Marlins.  

You have to show to the industry that you are serious.  In order to do that, they have to overspend, reality is reality. Sorry. 

For sure. This is going very large for Correa/Turner, or maybe Judge/Boegarts or the real dark horse here Brandon Nimmo who will be 30 next year, won't cost as much as those 4 above, and is outstanding defensively for CF. He gets hurt a lot, but he is awesome so who knows.  A healthy Nimmo is a 4.5+ WAR player for his career. You know they will likely be cheap even if they spend, so I think I am anticipating something like Nimmo + Kiermaier next year, as well as cashing in something in the farm for another moderate/high end bat infielder. Likely a SS/3B type, and they do it with Salas/Lewis, Bleday/Burdick, and others, and preserve the real farm top end. That is sub $100m once you backload Nimmo. Maybe they channel Loria for that payroll maneuvering. Sigh. We can hope they become serious one day.

The Pittsburgh Pirates, a team we were all convinced the Marlins would buy from, have a better record right now. 

22 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said:

The Pittsburgh Pirates, a team we were all convinced the Marlins would buy from, have a better record right now. 

With a -81 run differential. Worst in baseball. Not a typo. -81. Negative 81. I have to re-type that is so outrageous. 

Marlins are +5. Marlins are 19-27.

Pittsburgh 21-27.

The baseball gods are punishing Bruce for not spending real money is the only explanation

7 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

With a -81 run differential. Worst in baseball. Not a typo. -81. Negative 81. I have to re-type that is so outrageous. 

Marlins are +5. Marlins are 19-27.

Pittsburgh 21-27.

The baseball gods are punishing Bruce for not spending real money is the only explanation

Baseball gods love the Pirates the most this year and perfectly distribute all their a little runs to win the most games ……

13 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Baseball gods love the Pirates the most this year and perfectly distribute all their a little runs to win the most games ……

Maybe we should all become atheists

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

With a -81 run differential. Worst in baseball. Not a typo. -81. Negative 81. I have to re-type that is so outrageous. 

Marlins are +5. Marlins are 19-27.

Pittsburgh 21-27.

The baseball gods are punishing Bruce for not spending real money is the only explanation

something something manager something something Don Mattingly something something with a good manager this could be a winning team something something never get fired something something 

 

 

You all know how it goes.

Just now, SongInTheAir said:

something something manager something something Don Mattingly something something with a good manager this could be a winning team something something never get fired something something 

 

 

You all know how it goes.

<insert a seven paragraph essay as to what the team should do including getting a CF, spending on superstars and getting payroll to $110m, etc>

21 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said:

something something manager something something Don Mattingly something something with a good manager this could be a winning team something something never get fired something something 

 

 

You all know how it goes.

I do wonder what attitudes would be like if they were 23-23 right now. Is it the same fury for the CF trade, or let's coast for another month? Still fire Don because many moves are still objectively bad even with floating .500? I guess we'll never know absent another 7+ game win streak.

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

I do wonder what attitudes would be like if they were 23-23 right now. Is it the same fury for the CF trade, or let's coast for another month? Still fire Don because many moves are still objectively bad even with floating .500? I guess we'll never know absent another 7+ game win streak.

Well, assuming we're 23-23 means assuming Don didn't make all the moves that got us to 19-27, so I think the clamor to fire him would be much, much quieter. 

5 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I do wonder what attitudes would be like if they were 23-23 right now. Is it the same fury for the CF trade, or let's coast for another month? Still fire Don because many moves are still objectively bad even with floating .500? I guess we'll never know absent another 7+ game win streak.

If the team was at .500 I think I'd be OK with it. A bit annoyed because they should still be better than that, but at least it would actually be like "ok there's some legit bad luck here" and not just "Don brought in the lefty to face the leadoff lefty followed by two righties who crush lefties."

3 minutes ago, Michael said:

If the team was at .500 I think I'd be OK with it. A bit annoyed because they should still be better than that, but at least it would actually be like "ok there's some legit bad luck here" and not just "Don brought in the lefty to face the leadoff lefty followed by two righties who crush lefties."

Yes - the Arizona lefty game is the one I keep thinking about also. I do think Mattingly has realistically cost them 3-5 games. which is just nuts.

5 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Yes - the Arizona lefty game is the one I keep thinking about also. I do think Mattingly has realistically cost them 3-5 games. which is just nuts.

3-5 games just with in game decisions, but then there's the deeper cost of him not backing up his players (the Cooper ejection), not setting good lineups (the Cooper leadoff) and just generally being complacent with losing when it is close.

3 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

With a -81 run differential. Worst in baseball. Not a typo. -81. Negative 81. I have to re-type that is so outrageous. 

Marlins are +5. Marlins are 19-27.

Pittsburgh 21-27.

The baseball gods are punishing Bruce for not spending real money is the only explanation

I mean Pirates did win a game while getting no hit....

Don with another top notch lineup for Game 1.

 

Granted he has half his projected infield on the Injured list currently and Rojas is old and needs a day so....

 

And the organization giving Don a short bench today is a nice treat it seems. 

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

I do wonder what attitudes would be like if they were 23-23 right now. Is it the same fury for the CF trade, or let's coast for another month? Still fire Don because many moves are still objectively bad even with floating .500? I guess we'll never know absent another 7+ game win streak.

Obviously the outlook would be better.  But it wouldn’t change the team’s underlying issues - whether it be the roster or manager issues, they’d still exist even if the team was doing better record wise.

13 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Just what the Marlins need....

Another 1b/corner outfielder/DH

And one who has struggled in a hitters park, would hate to see him in a pitchers park. 

Hard pass. Especially at that proposed price. 

He's a building block to pair with Jazz on offense. No brainer. You are massively underrating him.. i watch him quite often

He works counts like a seasoned vet... pesky AF with crazy power potential. His exit velocities are insane. Get back to me end of next year when he's an all star and ill make sure to say atoadaso

And fwiw, the white sox would be the ones to say no

3 hours ago, Iowa said:

He works counts like a seasoned vet... pesky AF with crazy power potential. His exit velocities are insane. Get back to me end of next year when he's an all star and ill make sure to say atoadaso

I gotta respectfully disagree here, but for different reasons. Vaughn has 4 years of service time after this year. Pablo 2. I think if you move Pablo, you need to get some SERVICE TIME from guys similar to Vaughn - Corbin Carrol, Gabriel Moreno, or CJ Abrams level guys. You'd have those guys 6+ years. Or, he is used in a 3 way move and they get a legit MLB (not some hopeful improvement with Vaughn) like Bryan Reynolds (I think he's fine despite struggles this year). 4 years isn't enough as the centerpiece - and Vaughn would have to be the centerpiece as their farm sucks. I agree that Vaughn is good and likely undervalued, I just see a tough match here for a trade. He is nowhere near alone worth Pablo though.

 

To note, if the decision is made to move Pablo, I think we need to hope San Diego or Toronto is ready to sell-out. Abrams/Campusano and Moreno/Martinez/Groshans packages could be lights out. The Marlins could completely jack them up with Pablo and take your pick of any reliever (Floro, Bass, Sulser), secondary bats (Aguilar, Berti, even Anderson or Wendle), and even guys like Pop/DLC as throw ins for AAA insurance. That's the kind of thing I'd hope for - swing for superstar fence. Pay salary (like they did with Starling Marte) to make it happen if you must. If you're going to trade an ace with control, double centerpieces. Vaughn just doesn't do it for me and EVERY contender will want Pablo. They would do better on paper for sure.

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Obviously the outlook would be better.  But it wouldn’t change the team’s underlying issues - whether it be the roster or manager issues, they’d still exist even if the team was doing better record wise.

100%

#6!!!! Detroit and Oakland close to vaulting ahead!!!

23 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

I do wonder what attitudes would be like if they were 23-23 right now. Is it the same fury for the CF trade, or let's coast for another month? Still fire Don because many moves are still objectively bad even with floating .500? I guess we'll never know absent another 7+ game win streak.

If they were at .500 you would at least assume the FO will make moves to get better, this 8 games under BS gets us to the point where they give up and make no moves because it becomes a lost season already.