https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38793943/way-too-early-2024-mlb-power-rankings

 

Well, we're at 22nd lol....JUST ahead of the Cardinals. 

hard to argue with anything there

 

 

 

22. Miami Marlins

2023 record: 84-78

2023 final ranking: 14

It was an exciting season for the Marlins: Their first winning season in a full schedule since 2009, their first playoff appearance in a full season since 2003, Luis Arraez winning the batting title, young starters Jesus Luzardo and Braxton Garrett making 30 starts for the first time and Eury Perez flashing signs of future stardom. So why the low ranking? The season ended with the controversial departure of GM Kim Ng and the stability of the organization once again teeters on the ledge.

I just don't think Miami enters the offseason in a strong position. The Marlins were minus-57 in run differential, with their record propped up by a 33-14 record in one-run games (and it's not like the bullpen was especially effective). They were last in the NL in runs scored. Ace Sandy Alcantara will miss the season with Tommy John surgery and the farm system is weak. The owner may be a problem. Good luck to the GM.

Why is Kim leaving on her own terms "controversial"?

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38793943/way-too-early-2024-mlb-power-rankings

 

Well, we're at 22nd lol....JUST ahead of the Cardinals. 

Why are my Cardinals ranked so fucking high?

 

Not that ESPN is reliable...BUT

 

What do they know that nobody else does?  Did John Mozeliak secretly get sacked and thats why he wont do an end of season presser?

38 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Why are my Cardinals ranked so fucking high?

 

Not that ESPN is reliable...BUT

 

What do they know that nobody else does?  Did John Mozeliak secretly get sacked and thats why he wont do an end of season presser?

They found out Arenado is injecting some THT and will return to his Coorsian numbers.

6 hours ago, Michael said:

They found out Arenado is injecting some THT and will return to his Coorsian numbers.

Can he pitch too?

17 hours ago, flsportsfan83 said:

the stability of the organization once again teeters on the ledge.

I just don't think Miami enters the offseason in a strong position.

The second line here is fair to say but the first line might be completely false if Bruce proves he has an actual plan with his restructuring of the front office and if he continues to show he wants to win now.

This offseason is starting to remind me of the way people claimed the 2012 and 2017 teams were so great after they were dismantled. I loved what Kim Ng did the last year but this front office still had glaring issues and Bruce apparently wants to fix them but suddenly everyone is acting like this front office was untouchable and should never have been changed.

16 hours ago, Michael said:

Why is Kim leaving on her own terms "controversial"?

It fits the narrative they want.

16 hours ago, Michael said:

Why is Kim leaving on her own terms "controversial"?

Because that doesn't fit the "Marlins suck" narrative...

 

 

That said, I also think it wasn't right to try to put someone above her.

Edited November 3, 20232 yr by rmc523

46 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

The second line here is fair to say but the first line might be completely false if Bruce proves he has an actual plan with his restructuring of the front office and if he continues to show he wants to win now.

This offseason is starting to remind me of the way people claimed the 2012 and 2017 teams were so great after they were dismantled. I loved what Kim Ng did the last year but this front office still had glaring issues and Bruce apparently wants to fix them but suddenly everyone is acting like this front office was untouchable and should never have been changed.

but the real question..

 

Has Bruce's clock started?

22 might be generous, this could be a really bad team. No pitching depth, a bad offense is going to be worse, and a really good manager might be a lame duck knowing that he's not getting another season. Unless Bruce surprises everyone and really spends, the 2024 Marlins are way more likely to lose 95 games than they are to win even 80. 

Listen, I get the multitude of issues the team has currently.

 

But acting like next season is completely over in Day 1 of the "full" offseason is ridiculous.....

Edited November 3, 20232 yr by rmc523

1 minute ago, SongInTheAir said:

22 might be generous, this could be a really bad team. No pitching depth, a bad offense is going to be worse, and a really good manager might be a lame duck knowing that he's not getting another season. Unless Bruce surprises everyone and really spends, the 2024 Marlins are way more likely to lose 95 games than they are to win even 80. 

Especially given these two things:

 

1. Marlins wont have Sandy in 2024

2. Eury most like will STILL have an innings limit in 2024 (though not nearly as severe as the one in 2023).  The responsible thing would be to limit him to around 160-170 innings this next season.

31 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Especially given these two things:

 

1. Marlins wont have Sandy in 2024

2. Eury most like will STILL have an innings limit in 2024 (though not nearly as severe as the one in 2023).  The responsible thing would be to limit him to around 160-170 innings this next season.

160-170 innings is still plenty and Sandy wasn't even good most of 2023 even when he was available and the Marlins still managed to win 84.

Edited November 3, 20232 yr by Valid

31 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Listen, I get the multitude of issues the team has currently.

 

But acting like next season is completely over in Day 1 of the "full" offseason is ridiculous.....

Typical of this era of "journalism." A couple years back there was an article ranking the next season's rosters at the start of the offseason, so basically before any trades or free agency had even happened. The stupidest shit.

41 minutes ago, SongInTheAir said:

22 might be generous, this could be a really bad team. No pitching depth, a bad offense is going to be worse, and a really good manager might be a lame duck knowing that he's not getting another season. Unless Bruce surprises everyone and really spends, the 2024 Marlins are way more likely to lose 95 games than they are to win even 80. 

Can we actually start free agency before coming to these conclusions?

I also find it funny how people here are saying the Marlins being 22nd makes sense. I guess the Mets somehow being five spots ahead of us in spite of having significantly worse issues makes sense, too?

22 minutes ago, Valid said:

160-170 innings is still plenty and Sandy wasn't even good most of 2023 even when he was available and the Marlins still managed to win 84.

Right but you still have to fill the innings left from Sandy not being there.  

Starting pitchers should be conditioned to pitch 200 innings plus (I think this might start pivoting back in this direction fwiw)

28 minutes ago, Valid said:

160-170 innings is still plenty and Sandy wasn't even good most of 2023 even when he was available and the Marlins still managed to win 84.

As @Das Texan mentioned, Sandy DID provide innings at least, which will be difficult to replace - hopefully our vet pitcher (or two) signing is actually decent this year.

28 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Typical of this era of "journalism." A couple years back there was an article ranking the next season's rosters at the start of the offseason, so basically before any trades or free agency had even happened. The stupidest shit.

I mean, isn't that basically what this article is - evaluating the team at the start of the offseason?

1 hour ago, Valid said:

160-170 innings is still plenty and Sandy wasn't even good most of 2023 even when he was available and the Marlins still managed to win 84.

But Sandy was at least able to save the bullpen innings. It's a ripple effect where more short starts mean more innings from the bullpen, which means fewer effective innings from the bullpen when we need them in close games. Sandy, even when he wasn't peak Sandy, was still pitching 6+ innings almost every time out. 

1 hour ago, Valid said:

I also find it funny how people here are saying the Marlins being 22nd makes sense. I guess the Mets somehow being five spots ahead of us in spite of having significantly worse issues makes sense, too?

"Whoever said money can't solve your problems
Must not have had enough money to solve 'em
They say, "Which one?" I say, "Nah, I want all of 'em"
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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

isn't that basically what this article is - evaluating the team at the start of the offseason?

Yes same idea but the other was like a positional analysis of specific players when no one had changed teams or signed with new teams yet. It was like doing a taste test of food ingredients before actually putting them together to form the meal they're meant to make.

58 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

Yes same idea but the other was like a positional analysis of specific players when no one had changed teams or signed with new teams yet. It was like doing a taste test of food ingredients before actually putting them together to form the meal they're meant to make.

Oh, yeah, that's even more pointless.

I suppose an overall team look at the beginning and end of the offseason can be worthwhile, as you can compare the changes/improvements (or downgrades if rebuilding) made during the offseason.  But positional seems unnecessary.

5 hours ago, SongInTheAir said:

But Sandy was at least able to save the bullpen innings. It's a ripple effect where more short starts mean more innings from the bullpen, which means fewer effective innings from the bullpen when we need them in close games. Sandy, even when he wasn't peak Sandy, was still pitching 6+ innings almost every time out. 

I think THIS is largely a reason why 'gimmicks' and thats really what it is to me, that the Rays do with all their openers/bullpen games et al comes back to bite them in the ass in the end.

 

That shit is fine for a regular season game.  But the playoffs are a different beast.  You cant just approach playoff games like you do regular season games.  

Its a BIG reason why Bochy is so good I feel.  Sure he is aware of the analytical stuff.  But in the playoffs you have to be able to tell your guys 

1. Be ready at any point.

2. My eyes will tell me a lot, lets trust them.

3. Use the analytical stuff to help you prep and for what might work, but be ready to pivot at a moment's notice when the situation warrants.

 

Kevin Cash either cant do this because he doesnt know how to or he isnt allowed to do so.

Dave Roberts is the same.

 

3 hours ago, Das Texan said:

I think THIS is largely a reason why 'gimmicks' and thats really what it is to me, that the Rays do with all their openers/bullpen games et al comes back to bite them in the ass in the end.

 

That shit is fine for a regular season game.  But the playoffs are a different beast.  You cant just approach playoff games like you do regular season games.  

Its a BIG reason why Bochy is so good I feel.  Sure he is aware of the analytical stuff.  But in the playoffs you have to be able to tell your guys 

1. Be ready at any point.

2. My eyes will tell me a lot, lets trust them.

3. Use the analytical stuff to help you prep and for what might work, but be ready to pivot at a moment's notice when the situation warrants.

 

Kevin Cash either cant do this because he doesnt know how to or he isnt allowed to do so.

Dave Roberts is the same.

 

this is a good take, some strategies are built for long term success, and a 162 game season is absolutely a large sample. other strategies are better for shorter term success, and I don't think the Rays/Dodgers employ the short term strategies, so they're always excellent in the regular season but have so little to show for it