If Castro is doing well come May 1st, no way in hell we will or should sign Pudge. But if Ramon is struggling...

starting to feel a little unsure there josh?

Ramon's Defense >>, not at all.

I don't think he is bad but Pudge's defense is superhuman and Ramon has shown he is ordinary behind the plate defensively and throwing the ball.

Pudge last year in 138 games with us had 8 errors with a Fielding % of .992

 

In Ramons MLB career in 132 games he has had 8 error with a Fielding % of .988

 

It's not exactly a land slide in favor of Pudge

Also in 138 games last year Pudges CS % was .333

 

in 132 games Ramons was .338

of coruse its not really fair or accurate to judge the stats of hte two players....

 

 

as the variables are not the same.....

 

 

 

projecting otu someone's stats for a full year is useless in most cases.

I really think that Pudge will sign with Detoit this week

That was the best sampling I could find to compare the 2

 

138 game season for Pudge and a 132 game career for Ramon

 

Hopefully Ray can put the doubters to rest for good and gain some well deserved respect this season

projecting out someone's stats for a full year is useless in most cases.

agreed.

 

If we did that for Ramon this year compared with last year, he would have 60+ homers ( in 600 AB's- a lot for a catcher)- that just isn't going to happen... ever

OK, more interesting stuff here:

 

WFAN in New York interviewed Jayson Stark (who I feel is the most reliable of the "insiders" in the mass media).

 

He said essentially that Pudge has no interest in Detroit, unless it's at his money, and that there is an opt-out clause. Also, he said that Detroit has not offered 4/40, and that they don't want to do the opt-out because they feel that Pudge signing then walking after a year will be devastating/crippling to their franchise.

 

Not to fan the flames either, but he seemed to suggest that Pudge is leaning more towards the Marlins than anything else out there, becuase it's "understood" that he could get the 2/16 with an option year from us...

If pudge takes that contract of 25-27 Million then he is very dumb. We almost offered him that and he rejected it.

 

If he goes to that losing team with that kind of money then he needs to see a Sycologist.

If pudge takes that contract of 25-27 Million then he is very dumb. We almost offered him that and he rejected it.

 

If he goes to that losing team with that kind of money then he needs to see a Sycologist.

You mean a Psychologist?

OK, more interesting stuff here:

 

WFAN in New York interviewed Jayson Stark (who I feel is the most reliable of the "insiders" in the mass media).

 

He said essentially that Pudge has no interest in Detroit, unless it's at his money, and that there is an opt-out clause. Also, he said that Detroit has not offered 4/40, and that they don't want to do the opt-out because they feel that Pudge signing then walking after a year will be devastating/crippling to their franchise.

 

Not to fan the flames either, but he seemed to suggest that Pudge is leaning more towards the Marlins than anything else out there, becuase it's "understood" that he could get the 2/16 with an option year from us...

If the offer is still on the table, we should discount the first year by $2M since 1) he misses a month and 2) for general principles.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...9p-138697c.html

 

The reason Ivan (Pudge) Rodriguez hasn't accepted the Tigers' reported four-year, $40 million offer yet is because it isn't a four-year, $40 million offer. According to sources with knowledge of the negotiations between the Tigers and Rodriguez' rep, Scott (Avenging Agent) Boras, Detroit's offer is more in line with the Orioles' final offer before closing shop - three years, $25-$27 million. The reason neither side is denying the four-year, $40 million deal is because it's in both of their best interests to keep it out there. Though Boras made a counter-offer to the Tigers Friday in an attempt to get them up to $10 million per year, the betting now is Rodriguez will wind up re-signing with the Marlins - Boras rejected three years, $28 million from them - and join the team on May 1 at a discount... Speaking of the Marlins, baseball ought to be alarmed at their inability to sell even 5,000 season tickets so far. Even the Brewers and Expos have sold more. Marlins ownership has done a commendable job this off-season, retaining most of the key players of their world championship club in the face of the uncertain stadium situation there... After Pudge and Boras' other future Hall of Fame client, Greg Maddux, the free agent market is just about depleted of marquee names. Most interesting name among the still-unsigned is Fred McGriff, whose Hall of Fame hopes are at stake. The 40-year-old McGriff needs three home runs to pass Lou Gehrig on the all-time list and nine to become the 20th member of the 500 club... With the hullabaloo over the Nets going to Brooklyn, rekindling the Walter O'Malley bashing and all this eternal wrenching over the Dodgers' flight from the borough in 1957, it might be interesting to a new generation of baseball fans to know the Dodgers barely drew a million fans in their 1955 championship season. Moreover, in the 10th game of their record 10-game winning streak to start that season, they beat Robin Roberts and the Phillies - before a crowd of 3,874 at Ebbets Field. We can only assume those are the same people Sen. Chuck Schumer wailed about wandering around Brooklyn "with holes in his or her hearts" for 46 years.

This is interesting.

 

I have a hard time believing this story, but there is a point I want to bring up. I remember yesterday, somebody posted a quote from rotoworld (which has seemed to be pretty reliable) that said the Tigers and Pudge agreed only yesterday to a 4 year deal, and that implied that the money portion of the negotiations still was not done. I remember in reponse, several people (myself included) found that odd because we had heard that this had been agreed to a while ago. However, maybe rotoworld was right and in fact they have yet to agree to the right money, and just now agreed to make the deal 4 years, and if that's the case, then maybe this article is on to something about Pudge not signing yet with Detroit becaue he hasn't been offered 4/40 yet.

 

Just a thought I wanted to bring up.

IIRC, a few years back, the Reds failed to re-sign Deion Sanders when he became a free agent. He didn't find any offers on the open market, and decided to return to Cincinnati. He wasn't offered arbitration, so he couldn't play with Cincinnati until after May 1. However, he was permitted to come to spring training with Cincinnati and play in AAA until May 1.

Pudge may think the 2/16 offer is on the table, but it's kind of hard to get around the FO saying there was zero chance he would return. If they back track on that, they'll look like fools. Still, there's no telling what "discussions" there were in D.C.

Very depressing to hear how pathetic Marlins fans are in terms of supporting the team. This market says if they win, they will support it. Well, they win the World Series, and still the team had dismal crowds in September. It wasn't until the playoffs that the bandwagon filled up. Now season tickets are not selling briskly. The fans here seem to want the team to leave. If the stadium falls through on March 15, I fear the Portland or Nashville Marlins will be in the future. You can't blame the team for leaving should the stadium fall through. LeBatard is correct. The fans here should be ashamed of themselves. We win two titles in seven years and still the franchise is treated like an unwanted stepchild. It's time to put up or shut up as a market.

The Marlins will not move out of Florida even if they don't get a new stadium until 2011. The team will be a cellar-dweller though.

I think your wrong Cape , if the Marlins FO keep seeing the lack of Ticket sales they will move Marlins out of Florida . Seriously , think about it , if you were the owner of a franchise and your team just won the World Series and you didnt see any improvement in the Ticket sales you dont think you would feel a bit upset or betrayed ?, come on , I know i would .

Does anyone know how much, if any, Loria and Co. lost last year on the Marlins? I ask because HWH said he lost 30 Mil. after the 97 season. Can not blame him for trying to sell and recoup something.

 

Point here is Maybe Ft. Lauderdale or Orlando would be a better spot. Seems that So. Fla. does not care if they stay or not.

Huizenga did not use proper accounting principles. It even lead to new accounting pronouncements that made his techiques not longer just improper, but also illegal.

Does anyone know how much, if any, Loria and Co. lost last year on the Marlins? I ask because HWH said he lost 30 Mil. after the 97 season. Can not blame him for trying to sell and recoup something.

 

Point here is Maybe Ft. Lauderdale or Orlando would be a better spot. Seems that So. Fla. does not care if they stay or not.

 

i think that unfortunately, you make a point. the proof is in the pudding to a large extent. I'm not saying that we need to sell 20,000 season tickets - possibly playing at PPS makes that impossible. But if we cannot get markedly more season ticket purchases this year, coming off of a World Series victory with a majority of our most exciting players returning, than we had last year, coming off being one of the worst teams in the NL, then maybe it will never happen.

I think your wrong Cape , if the Marlins FO keep seeing the lack of Ticket sales they will move Marlins out of Florida . Seriously , think about it , if you were the owner of a franchise and your team just won the World Series and you didnt see any improvement in the Ticket sales you dont think you would feel a bit upset or betrayed ?, come on , I know i would .

Look, the Marlins aren't going anywhere for at least 3 years, and since Montreal has priority when it comes to moving, the Marlins will be here for at least another 5 years, because a stadium cannot be built overnight.

 

However, if season ticket sales/stadium support doesn't shape up, this may be the last year of us being competitive because guys like Luis and Lowell will probably be traded, and 6 year free agents won't be retained.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and just a side note regarding the season ticket thing:

 

The 5,000 that LeBastard wrote about in his column were, to the best of my knowledge, skewed numbers. We only have 5,000 full season ticket holders, no funny math like 2 41 game plan holders=1 full; for that article he only discussed the full ticket holders. Our base is closer to around 8,000 when considering the full/partial season ticket holders. LeBastard showed selective numbers when discussing the "support" for his column, however even the higher number is pathetic for a defending world champion.

Point here is Maybe Ft. Lauderdale or Orlando would be a better spot. Seems that So. Fla. does not care if they stay or not.

I think it's way too soon to be drawing any conclusions about the season tix sales thus far. Of course management is reporting the most dire stats to get those who have been waiting to make their purchase now. This discussion about season tix / team viability / profit-loss should be tabled until we have reliable information. Till then, we're just blowing steam.

Point here is Maybe Ft. Lauderdale or Orlando would be a better spot. Seems that So. Fla. does not care if they stay or not.

Orlando? :blink:

 

And isn't Ft. Lauderdale included in So. Fla?

 

So. Fla. does care, by the way. The majority of the fan base, from what I have seen, is in So. Fla., not Orlando or anywhere else in Central/North Florida.

I think your wrong Cape , if the Marlins FO keep seeing the lack of Ticket sales they will move Marlins out of Florida . Seriously , think about it , if you were the owner of a franchise and your team just won the World Series and you didnt see any improvement in the Ticket sales you dont think you would feel a bit upset or betrayed ?, come on , I know i would .

Look, the Marlins aren't going anywhere for at least 3 years, and since Montreal has priority when it comes to moving, the Marlins will be here for at least another 5 years, because a stadium cannot be built overnight.

 

However, if season ticket sales/stadium support doesn't shape up, this may be the last year of us being competitive because guys like Luis and Lowell will probably be traded, and 6 year free agents won't be retained.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and just a side note regarding the season ticket thing:

 

The 5,000 that LeBastard wrote about in his column were, to the best of my knowledge, skewed numbers. We only have 5,000 full season ticket holders, no funny math like 2 41 game plan holders=1 full; for that article he only discussed the full ticket holders. Our base is closer to around 8,000 when considering the full/partial season ticket holders. LeBastard showed selective numbers when discussing the "support" for his column, however even the higher number is pathetic for a defending world champion. Do not kid yourself about not moving for 3 years. The expos situation is nearly resolved. The Washington and No. Virginia people are well funded and motivated. If So.Fla does not wake up RIGHT NOW, Plans will be made to make a change somewhere. IMO