fanfish

Yes, we lost (for several reasons) and it hurts, but damn.................what a comeback in the ninth! I'm proud of a team that can do that! Psychologically, this can be a lift for the team as much as a disappointment.

If it is not one thing, it's another. We will NEVER get state help for a Marlins stadium. PERIOD!!!! Get used to it. The city/county/team must get it done. Hopefully, there will be some progress once the Univ. of Miami finally decides where they will play football. Reportedly they were going to decide by the end of May or early June. We won't see any movement on the stadium front before then. Once that is settled, they will need to see about the missing the $ 30 million and what site to choose (downtown vs Orange Bowl) then we will be home free. Simple, right?

I'm not sure what this organization is thinking. Our outfield was already a patch job with Amezaga and Borchard in there most of the time, but really throwing in Abercrombie is just the icing on the cake. I know Ross is hurt and we need a right-handed bat, but honestly, Reggie might as well step in the box without a bat. He really doesn't need it anyway. His fielding looks like Cabrera's during the first year he played left field --- a dance routine. Don't get me started about his sulking after he misplayed the Kearns ball. He sulked and threw a little tantrum out in CF long enough for Willingham to come over and pick up the ball, causing them to have some awkward contact. This is the major leagues, leave the sulking behind in little league, please. Thanks. It's just sickening. Tank and Julio aren't helping, either. I fully agree with you CanesNFish, Abercrombie makes potential relatively easy catches look difficult because he gets himself turned around by taking poor routes to the ball. If his offense were fantastic I could see putting him out there, but damn!

Give Gonzalez a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think there 8 players in the DL! Just having Johnson healthy would have probably made a 3-4 game difference by now. Mitre and Nolasco just recently returned. Now Sanchez and Owens have arm problems. Don't forget Martinez, Kensing and Hermida, we haven't even seen them this year yet. Just when we thought we had a center fielder, De Aza goes down. Our patched up out field lost one of the best patches when we lost Ross. We need to have at least MOST of the starters back before I start to be critical of the manager. He has to make do with what he has, which is not easy. There is always more than one way to manage a ball game. Sometimes it's easy to be critical of a manager when things won't work out. But it would be fair if we also try to remember when certain managerial moves have positive results. Somehow, the later ones are harder to remember.

1. Hanley 2. Uggla 3. Cabrera 4. Jacobs 5. Hammer 6. Hermida 7. Olivo 8. Almezaga 9.Pitcher

cool, thanks Cape. sweet Mary someone wake up Dave Van Horn. :lol He called the Willingham homer like it was a routine grounder to second. Awesome win though. :thumbup I can't stand Van Horne's home run call. That "up, up and away" call is so lame and outdated! Is it just me? But every time I hear Van Gundy on the radio, I hear the crowd's reaction about 5 seconds before he describes what's happening. I think he is trying not to mess up, but please!!! Can't someone entice him with a good retirement package?

I agree with Cape. I think the city/county/MLB/Marlins will get some kind of deal done, sometime in the distant future. However, I for one, will no longer torture myself by following this dragged out drama daily as I have in the past. When and if it happens, it happens. In the meantime, I'll try to enjoy each baseball game the best I can, without thinking of this stadium mess.

Jerry Del Castillo broadcast his show, la Descarga Deportiva, from Tallahassee this afternoon. He has had a chance to talk to many politicians from South Florida. Mayor Diaz (City of Miami) and Mayor Robaina (Hialeah) have been "working the Senators" hard. Representatives from Miami-Dade County are also there. He was probably told not to mention specifics, but Jerry's tone sounded very optimistic that the Senate will get to vote and actually pass the Marlins Stadium tax rebate. We can only hope!

In today's paper, they say that the slots deal is probably dead due to pressure by Broward county's Las Vegas style casinos. They don't want anyone else competing for their gambling money. This may mean the Marlins stadium deal is back in trouble. But hey, the way things go back and forth in this legislature, we will definitely have to wait until 11:59 pm Friday evening to see what really happens. There may even call a specially session of the legislature if the property tax issue is not settled in time, so the wait may even go beyond Friday night. Broward's casinos though are Native American casinos so I do not see how they can come into play. Last year there was a question on the ballot that passed in Broward but failed in Miami-Dade concerning the slot machines ( Class III or Las Vegas style slot machines) in parimutuels. This is what I'm talking about, not the Hot Rock Casino and the like, which as you correctly state, are native American casinos. Here is the article: LEGISLATURE 2007 Low priorities fall by the wayside in Legislature Miami's parimutuels saw slots in their future -- until House support faded. BY MARY ELLEN KLAS AND AMY DRISCOLL meklas@MiamiHerald.com TALLAHASSEE -- State House leaders all but crushed a brief vision of new life for Miami-Dade County's struggling parimutuels Tuesday when they said that a bill to allow a broad expansion of gambling in Florida may never get a hearing. The reversal came one day after an extraordinary vote from the anti-gambling House when a committee -- specially reconstituted just to hear a bill that would allow slot machines at 10 Florida parimutuels -- passed the bill 13-1. The measure would allow Class II, bingo-style slots at the 10 sites, including four in Miami-Dade: Miami Jai-Alai, Calder Race Course, Flagler Dog Track and the long-shuttered Hialeah Park. The bill had been expected to move quickly to the House floor by today. But after intense lobbying from Broward parimutuels -- who saw the proposal as increasing their competition -- the narrow margin of support in the House appeared to evaporate Tuesday. Broward is the only county in Florida with Las Vegas-style slot machines. Rep. Ray Sansom, the Destin Republican who chairs the Budget and Policy Council, where the bill is now stalled, said he wouldn't remove the bill from his council, then went further, adding: ``We're not planning to meet again.'' Sansom left alive a sliver of possibility, noting that ''things may change'' in the slots bill. House leaders have put a bill on the calendar tomorrow that could serve as the vehicle to resurrecting the measure if pro-slots forces persuade House leaders to amend the slots bill onto it and bring the measure to a vote of the 120-member house. Like the slots bill, dozens of other measures appeared in jeopardy, including the push to cut property taxes in Florida, the effort to award the Florida Marlins money to finance a retractable-roof stadium and bills dealing with voting-machine paper trails and auto insurance. Talks continued between House and Senate leaders behind the scenes on property taxes Tuesday, but there was no progress in sight. NO DIRECTION 'This is like a kids' soccer match,'' said House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber. ``There's a lot of running back and forth with no strategic direction.'' Even the governor got involved, dispatching his chief of staff, George LeMieux, to shuttle between the House and Senate to keep talks going. ''They're working hard,'' LeMieux said. ``If they don't get it done, it won't be from lack of effort.'' As tensions increased between the House and Senate, emotions frayed within the House, where the Republican-dominated Rules Council refused to allow several Democratic bills come to the floor. Gelber said the council had ``been less than fair in the bills that are being heard.'' The stalemate on the slots bill also left parimutuel officials unsure of what to expect. ''I think this will be one of those issues that will go down to 11:59 and 30 seconds on Friday night at the very end of the session,'' said Hialeah Mayor Julio Robaina. ``There'll be some horse-trading back and forth. . . . This is one of those items they'll use to negotiate.'' The proposal took many of the parimutuels by surprise, coming in the final week of the session with little build-up. It caused a flurry of excitement at venerable institutions like Miami Jai-Alai, which has been in existence since 1926. ''It's very interesting. It would certainly put us on a closer par with Indian gaming and the Broward casinos,'' said Dan Licciardi, vice president and general manager of the fronton. ``It would definitely help.'' EARLIER PLAN But he said the facility, owned by Florida Gaming, also would benefit from a previous plan to put slots to another local vote in Miami-Dade. In 2005, voters narrowly rejected the proposal but it passed in Broward County, giving slots to four parimutuels. ''We'd love to see the Legislature pass this current proposal, but we'd also love to give voters another chance in Miami-Dade -- either way,'' Licciardi said. ``Miami has now had a chance to see how it works in Broward, and I think we'd like to put it to another vote here.'' At Calder, owned by Churchill Downs, president Ken Dunn said he also will wait until the last day of the session before setting a course of action on slots. He noted that the proposed House bill allows only for video lottery terminals, Class II gaming, instead of the Class III, Las Vegas-style machines allowed at Broward casinos. ''We're in the process of evaluating our opportunities,'' he said. At Flagler Dog Track, vice president Isadore Havenick said slots are critical to revitalizing a dying business. ''When we say slot machines will save our business, we're not kidding,'' he said. ``We're losing money. We need slots.''

In today's paper, they say that the slots deal is probably dead due to pressure by Broward county's Las Vegas style casinos. They don't want anyone else competing for their gambling money. This may mean the Marlins stadium deal is back in trouble. But hey, the way things go back and forth in this legislature, we will definitely have to wait until 11:59 pm Friday evening to see what really happens. There may even call a specially session of the legislature if the property tax issue is not settled in time, so the wait may even go beyond Friday night.

Follow up article about the wheeling and dealing in Tallahassee concerning the new Marlins Stadium LEGISLATURE | GAMBLING Slots, stadium in tax-bill mix With property taxes as the stated rationale, House Republicans offered up a bill to expand gambling at parimutuels, including in Miami-Dade County. BY MARY ELLEN KLAS, BREANNE GILPATRICK AND YUDY PINEIRO meklas@MiamiHerald.com TALLAHASSEE -- The Florida House of Representatives, which has consistently killed efforts to expand gambling in the state, suddenly resurrected a committee Monday for just one vote: to allow slot machines at 10 racetracks and jai-alai frontons, including four in Miami-Dade County. The stated rationale for the change of mind: Tax revenue from gambling would help cut property taxes. The other, less public, reason: a stadium for the Florida Marlins. The deal would work like this: The House hates gambling but wants to give a $60 million subsidy to the Marlins to build a retractable-roof stadium. The Senate doesn't care for the Marlins stadium but has already voted to allow parimutuels throughout the state to put in slot machines. So each chamber would hold its nose to pass a bill it dislikes to get something it badly wants. House leaders denied Monday there is any direct link between the gambling bill and Marlins measure, but the sponsors are hopeful that since the gambling money would be steered to property tax cuts, both will survive. ''It appears to me there is a desire on the part of leaders of both chambers to give each issue a vote,'' said Sen. Steve Geller, the Senate Democratic Leader and sponsor of the slots bill. He added that the extra revenue from gaming would make the cost of the Marlins bill -- $2 million a year for 30 years -- ``easier to stomach.'' The House sponsor, Rep. David Rivera, a Miami Republican, said he would be ''appreciative'' if his push to bring the gambling bill to a vote provokes a Senate vote on the Marlins. And Senate Republican Leader Dan Webster, a Winter Garden Republican, who last week vowed that the Marlins bill won't come to a vote in his chamber, on Monday gave a noncommittal ``we'll see.'' CLASS II SLOTS The proposal would allow Calder Race Track, Flagler Dog Track, Miami Jai Alai, Hialeah Race Course and six other parimutuels around the state to offer slot machines -- known in Tallahassee parlance as ''video lottery terminals'' -- without getting voter approval. Hialeah would first have to reapply for its racing license. The machines, also called Class II or bingo-style terminals, are identical to the ones now used by the Seminole and Miccosukee Indians at their casinos. They look like Vegas-style slots but produce lower payouts because players in essence bet against one another and not the house. The House Environment and Natural Resources Council approved the bill 13-1 in an extrordinary late-session meeting, convened specially to pass the bill before a friendly committee. The estimated $1 billion that would be raised from those nine facilites would be sent to school districts across the state, which would then have to reduce property taxes levied to pay for schools. If the plan is approved, taxpayers could see savings of about 10 to 20 percent on the schools portion of their property tax bill. ''It's a tax cut,'' said the council's chairman, Rep. Stan Mayfield, a Vero Beach Republican. Gov. Charlie Crist said Monday he'd been told of the House proposal but is withholding judgment until he sees the final version of the bill. ''I want the Legislature to finish its job,'' he said. ''Then our lawyers will review the bill and we'll take a position.'' DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES The deal is loaded with political curveballs. House Speaker Marco Rubio said he personally will vote against any bill to expand gambling, but added he won't stand in the way of letting it pass through his chamber. Senate President Ken Pruitt is privately pushing for the passage of the slot machines bill and has said he won't stand in the way of a bill to assist the Marlins. And Rivera, who is one of Rubio's closest lieutenants, personally supports gambling and is being courted by Miami-Dade gambling interests, who want to conduct a voter referendum next year to bring Vegas-style slot machines to county parimutuels next year. But the conservative House is hostile territory for gambling measures, and there's no guarantee the slots bill will pass. A more routine bill -- to loosen slots regulations at Broward's parimutuels by expanding the number and hours of operations of slot machines and allowing them to put ATMs on their property -- barely passed on a 61-52 vote on Monday. Rivera said the vote sent a signal that his bill will have trouble. ''It certainly has challenges,'' he said. There is no assurance the Senate will agree with the House proposal. The Senate version would allow all 25 parimutuels in the state to expand to Class II slots and generate an estimated $1.9 billion in tax revenue a year. The House plan limits the new slots games to parimutuels in counties with populations of over 800,000, or within 40 miles of an existing casino operated by an Indian tribe. The bill prohibits Broward County parimutuels from offering the machines, unless they give up the Vegas-style Class III gaming devices they now use. Some legislators complained Monday that the issue was rushed through. ''I just found out about this,'' said Rep. Rich Glorioso, a Plant City Republican. ``I don't like this bill, but I'm going to let it go to the floor because I believe anything this large and of this magnitude needs to be [decided] by the entire chamber.'' Miami Herald staff writer Marc Caputo contributed to this report.

The economist police in this forum say however, that instead of going on an "anecdotally" inspired vacation, the "systematic observations of my spending patters" dictate that I would spend it on a more expensive meal, car, or TV because I will follow a "general trend", and that the South Florida economy would remain unchanged if there were no Marlins stadium. So, since they must be right, in about 3 years, after going to dinner at Prime 112, I will ride back to my house in my Ferrari and watch the Las Vegas Marlins play ball on my 60 inch, HD TV! I think there is a big communication problem on this board. Nobody (well, at least not me) is trying to tell everyone what I think they will do with their extra money. The issue is that, if you don't spend the money on the Marlins, what will you do with the extra cash?? You didn't say anything about my new Ferrari.

Uggla's problems: 1. Trying to pull everything 2. Swinging for the homer 3. Getting fooled with the "low and away stuff" with 2 strikes (reminds me of Alex Gonzalez's strike outs) 4. Maybe the sophomore thing I think he knows all this, and the coaches know all this. He'll figure it out.

3in, 6h, 3r, 0er, 0bb, 4k But, he gets the loss. I hope he is concentrating on just throwing strikes (no walks and 4 K would suggest that) but he is being hit hard. Six hits in three innings is not exactly closer material. I don't care if the runs were un-earned.

Lets say someone has money "under the mattress" because he did not spend it on the Marlins games. Is there law preventing that ex-Marlins fan from using that extra discretionary spending money on a summer vacation somewhere other than the Sunshine State? My family goes to about 40 Marlins games per year. If the Marlins did not exist I'd save a lot of money yearly, over $2000, in Marlins tickets not bought. I would save an additional $400 parking would have cost, and another $1200 not spent on food and drinks at the games. That's about $3600. I would then follow the economic commandments sent forth in this forum (they say I wouldn't save it) and would spend it ALL on a MORE EXPENSIVE European vacation where I would rent a MORE EXPENSIVE CAR, eat MORE EXPENSIVE MEALS and buy MORE EXPENSIVE souvenirs. The State of Florida would NOT see a penny in sales taxes. That's what I would do with my additional discretionary spending money. The economist police in this forum say however, that instead of going on the above stated "anecdotally" inspired vacation, the "systematic observations of my spending patters" dictate that I would spend it on a more expensive meal, car, or TV because I will follow a "general trend", and that the South Florida economy would remain unchanged if there were no Marlins stadium. So, since they must be right, in about 3 years, after going to dinner at Prime 112, I will ride back to my house in my Ferrari and watch the Las Vegas Marlins play ball on my 60 inch, HD TV!

But the difference is that 34,000 people don't go to the same 7:00 showing at muvico. Ignoring of course that the average non-season ticket holding fan is easily replaceable in these scenarios, it's the corporate and season ticket money that matters since those are guaranteed annual sources of income in the 5 and 6 figure range. I really don't think you see lesser events like movies and museums crowded out by professional sports, it's the separate franchises that battle each other. I'm amazed by how easily all of you have been distracted and waylaid by my example to miss the "big picture." No, all the folks who are at the stadium will not be spending all their money in the same place if the team were to leave. But, spread out over the entire tri-county area over the span of an entire 6-month baseball season, the amount of discretionary expenses that the single baseball spectator would have spent at the stadium will instead by spread out throughout the area, in the form of clothing purchases, dining options, other entertainment, other discretionary spending. The "big picture" is that at the end of the "fictitional 2025" season, the average baseball spectator, I assure you, will have the same amount of money in his pocket and will have probably spent the same amount of money whether the Marlins were there or not. Stop looking at the specifics, and focus on the broad aspect of it. I fear using "personalized" examples because all of you jump on those and ignore the rationale of the argument, that baseball purchases are discretionary, just like dining, entertainment, etc. Whether there is baseball or not, you're going to spend your discretionary expenses on anything else. I don't have a "line item" for my Marlins season tickets. I spent over $300.00 this year on a 15-game plan for me and my son. Guess, what, had I not bought Marlins tickets, I would've spent that $300.00 anyway, and probably not on the Marlins. That's my point: the money will be spent either way on ANYTHING that is taxable in Florida. And I mean ANYTHING! All you're doing is shifting the "spending" from one place to another. You're not creating "new" spending. I respectfully disagree with you to a certain degree. It is true that part of the money spent on Marlins games would be spent elsewhere , but a great part of the money may be saved or spent outside the state. I NEVER go to the movies or go out to diner during weekday evenings, but I go to many Marlins games during those nights. I may go to more movies and restaurants on Friday and Saturday evenings if I were not going to the games, but never on weeknights. Since most of the games are during the week, I strongly believe that, like me, most fans would stay home. And unless the saved money burns a hole in their pockets, I see no reason to have the need to spent the money saved. But looking at the big picture.... by having the Marlins stay, there would be an additional venue where Florida residents could spent their money instead of saving it or spending it on out of state vacations. I am not an economist, but this just makes sense to me.

From today's (4-26-07) Sun Sentinel : Injuries updates. CLEARING HURDLES Injured right fielder Jeremy Hermida ran the bases for the first time in nearly six weeks Wednesday in Jupiter, and his bruised right knee responded well. If there are no further problems today, Hermida could take some at-bats as soon as Friday as the designated hitter in an extended spring game. "It's definitely not bothering me," Hermida said. "I felt pretty good running. I wouldn't say it's 100 percent, but it felt good. It was up there." Hermida hasn't played in a game since fouling a ball off his right kneecap in a March 17 exhibition. He has been taking daily batting practice and shagging balls in the outfield with Marlins minor-leaguers. There is no timetable for his return. MOUNDWORK AHEAD Injured starter Josh Johnson will throw his first bullpen session Tuesday. It will last approximately 20 pitches, Johnson said Wednesday, and if all goes well he'll throw again three days later. June 1 remains a potential target date for his return to the rotation. "I've been letting it go the last two weeks, trying to get stretched out," said Johnson, who hasn't thrown off a mound since September. "I've been playing catch every day except Sundays." Johnson, who has been long-tossing up to 120 feet, said he was "very much" encouraged by his recent progress. He also said it helped having fellow rehabbers Hermida and Logan Kensing at the minor league complex for support. ... Deposed closer Jorge Julio (right calf) will pitch in an extended spring game today in Jupiter. Ricky Nolasco will start tonight for the Class A Hammerheads as well in his second rehab outing. Sergio Mitre also will appear in that game.

Olsen (ERA 7.50) and the Marlins vs Hudson (ERA 0.62) and the Braves? Unfortunately, I'll have to take the Braves this time.

Cape,you have truly become our "legislative expert". One more question. Do you know if the Conference Committee is established before hand for each session (who are the members, etc) or do they set up a specific Conference Committee for every bill that needs a compromise in order to be sent to the Governor?

Cape (or anyone who knows how the legislature works), It looks as if some kind of a Marlins stadium bill will reach the floor of the House. If the bill passes there, assuming they don't wait until the very last moment and run out of time, will it then automatically go to the Senate floor for a vote? In other words, the Senate really doesn't have to move a Marlins bill through committees if the House is able to do it, right? If the above is true, the challenge for the House sponsors would be to draft a stadium bill that the Senate would be able to approve. If the Senate sponsors have to amend the House bill in order for it to pass in their chamber, then it would probably delay the passage enough to essentially kill it unless a special session is called by the Gov. (I personally don't see Crist calling a special session just to pass stadium legislation) If the House passes it, it is then communicated to the Senate for amendment/vote/discussion. The Senate should have a copy of every house bill and the Traviesa bill does have a Senate version. http://capefish.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-b...ecomes-law.html Thanks Cape. You have truly become our "legislative expert". One more question. Do you know if the Conference Committee is established before hand for each session (who are the members, etc) or do they set up a specific Conference Committee for every bill that needs a compromise in order to be sent to the Governor?

Cape (or anyone who knows how the legislature works), It looks as if some kind of a Marlins stadium bill will reach the floor of the House. If the bill passes there, assuming they don't wait until the very last moment and run out of time, will it then automatically go to the Senate floor for a vote? In other words, the Senate really doesn't have to move a Marlins bill through committees if the House is able to do it, right? If the above is true, the challenge for the House sponsors would be to draft a stadium bill that the Senate would be able to approve. If the Senate sponsors have to amend the House bill in order for it to pass in their chamber, then it would probably delay the passage enough to essentially kill it unless a special session is called by the Gov. (I personally don't see Crist calling a special session just to pass stadium legislation)

mordecai has to get some more hits off the bench This joke was funny the first time. Gets old the 1500th time. For as annoying as some people may find the idea of blamign julio, the reprition of the same joke using different names is equally annoying. Thats why posts here that cna be discussed in one page grow to 3 or 4. I blame "legacyofCangelosi", the fun police.

I can't believe that any "plan B" can even come close to having the potential for of a deal as Miami-Dade has. No other potential site can only be $30 million away from its completion. In my opinion, it would be totally illogical to even consider another location at this stage of the game. At least not yet.

ok here is deal like we talk for weeks we all wait for final bill to pass he(( Claude Delorme Senior Vice President Stadium Development )) told me when i saw him at dolphins stadium that if their do not pass it this year their WILL LOOK TO GET OUT DADE he know that dade gov trying to get deal done but marlins wont wait for another year so next two week will tell us if their will be in miami or plambeach((mlb told Claude Delorme their stay in south fl but maynot be dade)) His comments make no sense. Miami-Dade and the City of Miami are committed to helping economically. I haven't heard of another area in Florida that is willing to finance the stadium without the State's help. The problem is not Miami-Dade. The problem is that the state has not given the tax rebate which will be the same if they go further north within the state.

Julio has not had a decent outing. He has given up runs in every appearance. He has hurt the team every time he has taken the mound. He has been demoted to a less pressure situation and still has been horrible. His command has been absent , getting behind in the count, having to throw fastballs down the middle that have been very hittable. HE MUST BE SENT TO THE MINORS TO FIND HIS CONTROL AND HIS CONFIDENCE. When he proves himself REPEATEDLY at Carolina or Albuquerque, then we should welcome him back. But not before. There is a time to be persistent in the pursuit of a goal, but there is a time when persistence turns to blind stubbornness and intelligent people know the difference.