Piazza31

was not surprised by this game at all. we are 27-42-3 all time against ottawa and have lost 11 of the past 13 against them. Don't forget Anderson owns us. Isn't he something like 8-2 against us?

You love that soapbox.

I somewhat agree Erick, but what was most exciting last year (Chance of postseason play) is replaced by something more interesting, but less exciting (chance of finding an actual team).

I know it's early but damn what a statement game. Chasing a starting goalie with all the injuries we have and our top rookies playing spectacular = statement. New signings like Kovalev played well too. This lockout is going to be murder on those goalies who didn't get on the ice everyday and chose to do dry land training. I think Ward was one of them. Luongo,Anderson, Vokoun, Theodore and Clemenson were all on ice each day down here.

This clip shows Kiprusoffs style where he uses active hands on pucks instead of putting his gloves down by his pads to block space. It helps smother rebounds and control the puck. You can see active hands as the glove is always up, but facing the ice in the direction of the puck. Contrast that with the above pic of Luongo where his glove hand is up against his chest and not ready to catch the puck but to trap it against his body instead if he can.

This is the best I can find that describes what I mean by T pushing and sliding in the buttefly for the second shot. It works, but only when used properly and correctly at the time it's needed- mostly shots up close. Allaire likes to teach the butterfly as the first save, the slide and butterfly as the second save and the butterfly and slide as the third save. 19-50 seconds of this clip kind of shows where it can work, and where it can't (further out from the crease).

Well that's when rebound control gets really important. Ironically, Luongo is a really good goalie who is terrible at rebound control. He's just really good on 2nd chance opportunities as well. Yeah, that's because of Francis Allaire, the former leafs goalie coach. He's too much of at way is the only way coach. It's helped Luongo become elite, but he's too rigid on the first shot because Allaire instilled in him a "Blocking" style butterfly over a Reactive style. Allaire is what ruined The Monster in Toronto, as well as the other goalies. Warren Strelow taught each goalie how to play situations and coached them within each goalies style. That's why Nabokov is a stand up, Toskala is more of a butterfly and Kipprusoff is a Reactive Profly goalie. All coached by the same man but each taught to enhance their own natural abilities. Kipprusoff has a hell of a glove hand too, which helps when he goes down on one knee to make saves. Allaire took luongo and tried to force him into a Butterfly on every shot because that's all he taught/teaches. He teaches the second save should be in the butterfly with a t-push across the crease to get you in position. Luongos length and reach along with his natural ability has helped him stay effective on the first shot. His natural talent shows in the second shot, when its his reflexes that have to take over. In other words- second chance attempts is when you see the Luongo that was drafted by the islanders first overall. First save attempts is when you see the Luongo that Allaire has created. God I hate Allaire. That blocking style doesn't lend itself to rebound control or rebound suppression, that's why it shouldn't ever be a goalies go to style. It works for Lundquist because that's who he's always been and he knows how to cushion a shot with equipment changes and movements. With a faster shot in the NHL and stiffer pad that Luongo uses, the puck just flys into the slot or to a waiting player. I've never seen another goalie who's rebounds go farther than luongo, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.I appreciate the goalie insight. I can never get too technical with goaltending because I don't know a lot of the lingo but I get the gist. It's my understanding that Luongo is as orthodox as they get? Not really, he's too technical on the first save selection. He always butterflied, but not as often and only when it called for it. Now he does it as a "start here" and react to the puck out of it. This is a butterfly. Luongo has aged and his has gotten narrower through the years but he is quite effective from it in a first save. He just can't control rebounds well from it and he's so coiled up he can't react quick enough to cover them up if they landed in front. He can't suppress the shot well, which is when he uncoils and goes back to his prospect days and excels at those second chances.

Well that's when rebound control gets really important. Ironically, Luongo is a really good goalie who is terrible at rebound control. He's just really good on 2nd chance opportunities as well. Yeah, that's because of Francis Allaire, the former leafs goalie coach. He's too much of at way is the only way coach. It's helped Luongo become elite, but he's too rigid on the first shot because Allaire instilled in him a "Blocking" style butterfly over a Reactive style. Allaire is what ruined The Monster in Toronto, as well as the other goalies. Warren Strelow taught each goalie how to play situations and coached them within each goalies style. That's why Nabokov is a stand up, Toskala is more of a butterfly and Kipprusoff is a Reactive Profly goalie. All coached by the same man but each taught to enhance their own natural abilities. Kipprusoff has a hell of a glove hand too, which helps when he goes down on one knee to make saves. Allaire took luongo and tried to force him into a Butterfly on every shot because that's all he taught/teaches. He teaches the second save should be in the butterfly with a t-push across the crease to get you in position. Luongos length and reach along with his natural ability has helped him stay effective on the first shot. His natural talent shows in the second shot, when its his reflexes that have to take over. In other words- second chance attempts is when you see the Luongo that was drafted by the islanders first overall. First save attempts is when you see the Luongo that Allaire has created. God I hate Allaire. That blocking style doesn't lend itself to rebound control or rebound suppression, that's why it shouldn't ever be a goalies go to style. It works for Lundquist because that's who he's always been and he knows how to cushion a shot with equipment changes and movements. With a faster shot in the NHL and stiffer pad that Luongo uses, the puck just flys into the slot or to a waiting player. I've never seen another goalie who's rebounds go farther than luongo, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

http://youtu.be/OtaWkLFfevc

The defense, other than a flurry in the middle, did an excellent job at keeping second chances away. Yup, I don't care how good of a goalie you are- its the second chance opportunities that usually eat you up. If your getting burned on the third chances I think it should count againt you like an unearned goal.

It sucks typing on my phone on us1

Jose played great and really cut off the angles in the crease, but that defense was incredible in clearing the garbage from infront of the cage. Glad I bought tickets last night, it was a fun time for my nephew and I. However, the announced crowd of 19,688 must have had 3k people in the bathrooms all night. No way that was a packed house or sell out crowd, as last night I almost bought tickets online thtough the Cats in any section I wanted. Jonny H played amazing, but you can see he was a wide eyes rookie and didn't know his assignments without the puck in the offensive zone. He kept bumping into our D at thd blue line in transition. But you know what's, he knows how to move WITH the puck like a veteran. Smooth passes too. Can't wait to see him develop. Could he really be the difference maker on offense we need?

At age 82, former Orioles manager and 1996 Hall of Fame inductee Earl Weaver has passed away this morning after suffering an apparent heart attack on an Orioles fantasy cruise. May he rest in peace and condolences to the family of one of the greats in MLB managing history. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130119&content_id=41036310&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb Your quite the obit writer Mike. Much more eloquent than Admin usually is. Example of Admin descibing the news :cool Earl Weaver is Dead. And From Swishers deal 4 years / $56 million May Weaver RIP, he was a good manager. I oddly remember picking up his Manager baseball cards from the 80's Topps sets because I thought he looked like a bad ass with the old Orioles logo. And his 69 Topps Card

I found Fido!

I really don't get why people think we need a goalie. Without injuries, this is a playoff team with Markstrom/Theodore. Clemmensen is a fine fill in until Markstrom gets here. Yeah, it's a shortened season and you want to win all you can both early and late but there's no reason to trade assets for a goalie right now. I'm the only one on this board who has openly said he wants @strombone1 . My preference is when he's cut but you get him when you can. I heard a interesting rumor of the flyers trading bryz to NYI for Dipietro, only to amnesty Dipietro and start Bob in net. Islanders would keep Bryz but get rid of Ricks contract. Flyers get whatever they get for taking Rick- be it picks or players.Why on earth would the Flyers a) trade Bryzgalov who won them 33 games last year and who they have under a steal of a contract and b) even consider taking on the contract of DiPietro, who cannot stay healthy to save his life and even when he is healthy is a bottom tier goalie? To make that even somewhat attractive for the Flyers they'd need to be getting Taveres. Where did you hear that because that source is on some good drugs. The idea is Bryz for players, and cut Dipietro. Bryz was considered aloof last year and didn't fit in. Ask any flyers fan snd some anonymous sources and they regret Bryz signing / trade and not giving bobosky a chance. I like Bryz, but he didn't seem to work out. Oh- and YouTube his name for interviews leading up to the winter classic. Priceless

Which, considering I don't know what luongos value is- might get it done. He has a full no trade clause, and he can grab the Canucks by the balls and force a trade to Florida. I just looked it up- we traded a 9th overall first round pick for vokoun and the 40th that year, and thd 2007 58th overall. Was Vokoun worth that? You've made an argument on here for Luongo saying we should trade assets because a revolving door at goalie does not work so I'm assuming you think he's worth that. Vokoun is a #1 and we did not have a revolving door when he was here. Would you be okay trading the same value for Luongo right now? What would you like to trade for Luongo? I would be okay with the same rounds and a player from depth. If we can get a Canucks offensive player I'd add more obviously. Right now we wouldn't be trading the 9th overall pick, or the 40th, I'd see it as the 20th or so and the 50th. Outside of the top 10 it's hard to judge talent, although its there. Top 10 picks should be coveted.

I really don't get why people think we need a goalie. Without injuries, this is a playoff team with Markstrom/Theodore. Clemmensen is a fine fill in until Markstrom gets here. Yeah, it's a shortened season and you want to win all you can both early and late but there's no reason to trade assets for a goalie right now. I'm the only one on this board who has openly said he wants @strombone1 . My preference is when he's cut but you get him when you can. I heard a interesting rumor of the flyers trading bryz to NYI for Dipietro, only to amnesty Dipietro and start Bob in net. Islanders would keep Bryz but get rid of Ricks contract. Flyers get whatever they get for taking Rick- be it picks or players.

Well the one time we did it, it paid off and we had one of the best runs in Panther history in net with Tomas Vokoun. Clearly got our value's worth. Right and I'm assuming he had no problem with that trade considering he wants to do the same thing for Luongo now.At the time I actually did because I didn't believe we were a goaltender away from competing. I also viewed Vokoun as a good goalie with bad lapses in judgement on save selection based on his time with Nashville. He did make strides in Florida and he was fun to watch, but he wasn't going to make the difference. I don't see Luongo demanding more than a goalie, a first and third and a defenseman. His trade value isn't as high as it should be and everyone knows if Vancouver keeps him he's going to be amnestied on July. Knowing that he wants to play in Florida, and he is available one way or the other should help him get here. What ever happened to our first round pick that year anyway?-Vokoun's always been consistent. -That's a lot for Luongo. -This current team isn't a better goaltender away from competing for a Stanley Cup either. Goaltending was the strength of the team last year. Goaltending has been the strength of the team for awhile now. They need to score more.Vokoun a stats have always been consistent- he's always had mental lapses with bad passes and very very poor goals allowed. Vokoun was consistently good. He might've had bad stretches at times, but that's the case for every goalie, Luongo included. Dropping into a butterfly at the top of the crease when the puck is off to the right boards is a pretty big mental lapse. It's an even bigger mental lapse trying to catch the puck across your body when your blocker is there to direct it into the boards. Or even to take penalties for playing the puck in your restricted zone- or tripping over the net when you pass the puck poorly along the boards. Luongo may butterfly too much and not rely enough on his trapper, but he's never looked aloof out there. Well- except that playoff game he was yelling at the refs.

Well the one time we did it, it paid off and we had one of the best runs in Panther history in net with Tomas Vokoun. Clearly got our value's worth. Right and I'm assuming he had no problem with that trade considering he wants to do the same thing for Luongo now.At the time I actually did because I didn't believe we were a goaltender away from competing. I also viewed Vokoun as a good goalie with bad lapses in judgement on save selection based on his time with Nashville. He did make strides in Florida and he was fun to watch, but he wasn't going to make the difference. I don't see Luongo demanding more than a goalie, a first and third and a defenseman. His trade value isn't as high as it should be and everyone knows if Vancouver keeps him he's going to be amnestied on July. Knowing that he wants to play in Florida, and he is available one way or the other should help him get here. What ever happened to our first round pick that year anyway? -Vokoun's always been consistent. -That's a lot for Luongo. -This current team isn't a better goaltender away from competing for a Stanley Cup either. Goaltending was the strength of the team last year. Goaltending has been the strength of the team for awhile now. They need to score more. Vokoun a stats have always been consistent- he's always had mental lapses with bad passes and very very poor goals allowed.

Which, considering I don't know what luongos value is- might get it done. He has a full no trade clause, and he can grab the Canucks by the balls and force a trade to Florida. I just looked it up- we traded a 9th overall first round pick for vokoun and the 40th that year, and thd 2007 58th overall. Was Vokoun worth that?

Well the one time we did it, it paid off and we had one of the best runs in Panther history in net with Tomas Vokoun. Clearly got our value's worth. Right and I'm assuming he had no problem with that trade considering he wants to do the same thing for Luongo now. At the time I actually did because I didn't believe we were a goaltender away from competing. I also viewed Vokoun as a good goalie with bad lapses in judgement on save selection based on his time with Nashville. He did make strides in Florida and he was fun to watch, but he wasn't going to make the difference. I don't see Luongo demanding more than a goalie, a first and third and a defenseman. His trade value isn't as high as it should be and everyone knows if Vancouver keeps him he's going to be amnestied on July. Knowing that he wants to play in Florida, and he is available one way or the other should help him get here. What ever happened to our first round pick that year anyway?

Winter Warm Up is open to public but there will be a season ticket holder only event that day as well. Think of it like VIP at FanFest but with less people getting the pass. What's the season ticket holder event? I plan on taking my nephew but I'm not sure what will he be going for. He likes meeting the players and getting autographs even if he doesn't know who they are.

Much simpler than what? You don't even make any sense. Where did I say context was *complicated*? Are you just using extra words for no reason? The word "obligated" is open for some choice of definition: 1. To bind, compel, or constrain by a social, legal, or moral tie. Sounds to me like you just want to narrow it down to legal and be that guy and give FotP shit for no reason, when it's pretty clear he was using it more loosely and less definitively.

Got my tickets for Saturday night. Anyone else going? I want to go--- all this panthers talk is getting me hungry for hockey.

They were so sucessful they didn't get to the playoffs for 10+ years with all of those goalies? What I'm getting at is a platoon has an effect on a goalie by ruining routine. Once that routine is ruined, it's difficult to get it back. When coaches like Torterella routinely play the hot hand until the magic is gone, the back up in that instance or 1B is usually rusty, overprepared and playing like he wants to keep his job- rather than playing because he's capable. Rolo/Fernandez/Harding was a great platoon, but they did nothing together. Beezer/Ricther was considered one of the best tandems in the game in the early 90's. Richter was the hot shot prospect, Beezer was the Vet who won a Vezina. With expansion they could only keep one, so Beezer went off to Vancouver (so VAN wouldn't have to give up one of their goalies). The point is platooning hasn't worked for this team, and it needs to come to an end. My hope is Luongo is bought out at the end of the year but I don't believe he will be a Canuck then. You find stability in net, and you can focus on offense and defense. We have a defense. We'll have a goalie for 3+ years. For the next 3 years we can focus on Forwards and Centers, which has proven to be our achilles heel with low scoring outputs. Tim Thomas is old (not retired yet though, Kiprusoff is old and capable, Brodeur the same. It is possible to be a strong goaltender in your late 30's. My opinion is get a long term answer at goalie, find some stability between the pipes- and continued success will follow. Markstrom should be in Florida playing to see what they have. This offseason its possible Luongo, Bryzgalov, Dipietro (I know, I know), and certain Thomas, Backstom, and Tomas Griess (I'd like to see him find a chance) will all be free agents. With a shortened season, and one I believe that has been compacted- you can have two goalies playing every other game with the same rest between a number 1 will get in a normal year. I like Markstrom, I hope he develops into a top 10 goalie in the least- but if he isn't the answer where do you go from there. There lack of success had nothing to do with what was in net, though. That was always the only one good thing the Panthers had. They usually had zero offense, or in the cases where they were really really bad, zero offense and zero defense. Tortorella? What does he have to do with this? As in, TB/NYR coach? In his time with TB he never had good goalies. Khabibulin/Graham were good goalies that ditched early. Ramo, Smith, Denis, etc. all suck. They were never good, never have been good, and never will be good. He was never playing a hot hand so much as he was desperately trying to find a goalie who didn't suck. I don't need lessons in expansion history If you're talking about John Torchetti, the Florida Panthers interim head coach in 2004, he didn't have a platoon. He had Roberto Luongo and a bad backup in Steve Shields. I have no idea what you mean by Roloson/Fernandez/Harding did nothing together. Beezer won the Vezina during a season that he by no means deserved the Vezina. Beezer was nothing more than an average goalie in the 80s. He only played two seasons with Richter, the first of which he hardly put up his mediocre career numbers. The point is not that platooning hasn't worked for this team. This team has been highly successful at platooning. I don't know what you're talking about. The evidence is there. We've yet to have a failure of a season in net while platooning in the entire history of this franchise. I don't think anyone's serious concern is Luongo's age. It's his cap hit, and it's the fact that we have Jacob Markstrom. We don't need Luongo to stopgap, and if/when all turns out nicely, we definitely don't need his cap hit to sit on the bench. We've got plenty of depth in goal, too. If Markstrom doesn't pan out, we have options to explore from within. There's also options to explore externally. Little known secret though... if Markstrom doesn't pan out, we will know that sometime a year or two before Luongo's contract expires. I would LOVE to sign a free agent Roberto Luongo. That's a completely different story and it requires Roberto Luongo is bought out. We can talk about that if the opportunity comes along. Until then, we should not be wasting money (5x) paying what would be our backup/1B goalie to play less games than the player who is hopefully starting. Most of what I meant, and I realized I didn't say it exactly--- We've been trading assets to acquire goaltending for over a decade, and it's cost us in not having any offense / not being able to trade for offense since our assets are routinely tied into our pipes. Most of the goalies that played here we traded for I believe: Vernon (with SJ for Radek Dvorak), Mclean (Carolina for Ray Sheppard) ,Kidd (With ATL), Anderson (Blackhawks), Auld (Canucks/Luongo Deal to get offense with Bertuzzi), Vokoun (1st and 2nd Round Picks) We gave up alot of good offensive players for these guys, and good picks. Those two picks could have helped us gain offensive players, but we had a hole at goaltending we needed addressing. Like I meant before- stop the revolving door at Goalie, and we'll be able to focus on the offense.