Passion Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 He has one of the sweetest swings ever. So effortless, so rhythmic, this left-handed stroke of baseball genius has produced 566 home runs and 2,999 hits. Rafael Palmeiro is about to join some rare Hall of Fame company. Only Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Eddie Murray topped 500/3,000. Well done, Raffy. Don't be mad, Raffy. Nothing personal. But you do not belong in the Hall of Fame. This is nothing personal against Palmeiro. He has never been surly to me or stiffed me for an interview because I've never tried to talk to him. He's generally regarded by baseball writers as a pretty good guy who gladly accommodates the media without having much to say. Most baseball writers will also tell you he's a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But is he? If you had to stop and think about it for even a moment, he isn't. At least, that's my Hall of Fame test. Aaron? Yes! Mays? Of course! Eddie Murray? Uh, well ? Murray wouldn't be in my Hall of Fame. Remember, it's not the Hall of Very Good. It's the Hall of Fame -- of transcendent greatness, of superstardom, of immortality. Murray would be a prominent member of my Hall of Very Good. Like Palmeiro, Murray piled up all-time great numbers by being very good for a very long time -- 21 seasons, while Palmeiro is in his 19th. But who would I rather have at first base and in my batting order? Easy: Murray! Pitchers feared Murray more. Murray made eight All-Star teams, won three Gold Gloves and finished second in the MVP balloting twice. Ask longtime Baltimore fans if Palmeiro is in Murray's league, and you might as well be asking if they prefer the Nationals to the Orioles. Murray's number is one of six the Orioles have retired, joining Frank and Brooks Robinson, Jim Palmer, Cal Ripken and manager Earl Weaver. So, Orioles fans, should Palmeiro's No. 25 never be worn again? Uh, well ... Oh, give him that much. Retire his number. And go ahead, put him in the Hall of Never Was On the Disabled List. Or in the Hall of Sweetest Swings. Or in the Hall of Very, Very Good. But not the Hall. Too many seam-headed voters are too imprisoned by milestone numbers. For them, 3,000 plus 500 equals first ballot. I realize I'm thinking way too right-brain for a baseball argument, but just listen to your instinct when I ask: "Is Rafael Palmeiro a game-changing player?" Your instinct whispers no, loudly. Palmeiro has made only four All-Star teams -- half of Murray's. Not once has Palmeiro been voted a starter. His highest MVP finish is fifth. Not once has he led the league in home runs, RBI or batting average. Yes, he did lead the league in hits and doubles (in 1991) and in runs in (in 1993). And yes, The Sporting News named him Player of the Year in 1999. He has had 10 100-plus RBI seasons -- four more than Murray. And like Murray, he has won three Gold Gloves. But, what's your gut feeling: Is Rafael Palmeiro one of the dominant players of his era? No! Do you drop what you're doing when the Orioles are on TV and Palmeiro anchors himself in the batter's box? Don't lie to yourself. Palmeiro is nothing more than a very good player who has benefited from being a left-handed hitter in bandbox ballparks, Camden Yards and Ameriquest Field in Arlington, featuring right-field jet streams. Not counting the strike year of 1994, Palmeiro played five seasons in Baltimore and five in Arlington during 1995-2004. He averaged a little more than 36 homers a year in Baltimore, counting last season's 23, and almost 45 a year in Arlington. Yes, he still had to make home-run contact. But is he Reggie Jackson? Please. That's the argument you hear for Palmeiro: Reggie's in the Hall of Fame, and Palmeiro passed Reggie's 563 homers on the all-time list. Oh, please. Reggie Jackson made 14 All-Star teams and won two World Series MVPs, as well as the 1973 regular-season MVP. In 27 World Series games, Reggie batted .357 with 24 RBI and 10 homers -- including, of course, three in 1977's deciding Game 6 against the Dodgers. Has Palmeiro ever been called Mr. October? Mr. Anything? OK, Mr. Viagra. Five years after he retires, Palmeiro will be remembered mostly for doing Viagra ads. Palmeiro hasn't played in a World Series. In 22 postseason games, he has only four homers and eight RBI, with a .244 average. Not exactly immortal impact. Forgive me, but I want my Hall of Fame to admit only larger-than-life players. Make that Gary Coopers-town. If you have to think twice about it ? Wade Boggs? Yes! Ryne Sandberg? Uh, well ? Sandberg belongs in the Hall of Very Good. Yet Boggs and Sandberg will both be inducted into the Hall of Fame on July 31. Andre Dawson (one MVP, eight All-Star teams) and Dale Murphy (two MVPs, seven All-Star teams) are notable Hall snubs. I'd trade Palmeiro for either of them. Still, I don't lie awake nights wondering how, in the name of Babe Ruth, Dawson and Murphy aren't Hall of Famers. I don't want a Hall of Sympathy for Very Good Players. I want rare greatness, Olympus-high standards. Roger Clemens? Obviously! Barry Bonds? Even pre-steroids, no doubt. Mariano Rivera: Sure! Greg Maddux? No-brainer. Curt Schilling: Darn right. Randy Johnson? Never been anything quite like him. Sammy Sosa? Uh, well, just because he had three 60-plus home run seasons at the height of the steroid era ? Sosa is not in my Hall of Fame either. Sosa has too often been the master of the meaningless home run. In the clutch, Sosa too often has swung at strike three in the dirt (he has led the league in strikeouts three times). Sosa too often has been a liability in right field. If you want to put Sammy in your Lovable Cartoon Character Hall of Fame, fine. But he's not in my Hall. Mark McGwire? Gut feeling: Yes, with or without steroids. He was a 12-time All-Star (to Sosa's seven) and helped carry three Oakland teams to the World Series (to Sosa's none). McGwire was the most feared power hitter of his time. Though Jose Canseco goes into detail in his book about how he educated Palmeiro about (and injected him with) steroids, Palmeiro heatedly denied ever using steroids when he testified before Congress. Canseco joined Palmeiro in Texas for the final two months of the '92 season. That season, Palmeiro hit 22 homers. The next, he hit 37 and turned into a legitimate 40-homer threat. Still, let's assume Canseco is lying. Steroid-free, Palmeiro isn't a Hall of Famer. Give me no-doubters. Give me Aaron, Banks, Bench, Brock, Carew, Carlton, Clemente, Cobb, Dizzy Dean, DiMaggio, Drysdale, Eckersley, Feller, Whitey Ford, Gehrig, Gibson, Grove, Hornsby, Hubbell, Walter Johnson, Kaline, Killebrew, Koufax, Mantle, Marichal, Mathewson, Mays, McCovey ? Mize, Morgan, Musial, Ott, Paige, Palmer, Reese, Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Jackie Robinson, Ruth, Nolan Ryan, Schmidt, Seaver, Sisler, Ozzie Smith, Snider, Spahn, Speaker, Stargell, Honus Wagner, Ted Williams, Yastrzemski, Cy Young and Robin Yount. Sorry, Raffy. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...ss/050715&num=2 God I hate Bayless...he sucks the fun out of everything in sports. Few sportswriters could take such a symbolic steaming dump on a great accomplishment like Mr. Palmeiro just achieved. But Bayless does it time and time again... 3,000 hits gets you in the HOF automatically in my book..and 500 could get you in, put them together and its a no doubter. 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nc marlin Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 yeah bayless sucks i hate journalists like him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fritz Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Bayless is a contrarian douchebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndLine Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 how does he still have a job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanks1212 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 how does he still have a job 858078[/snapback] He stirs up controversy for ESPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Man Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Raffy doesn't want to be in Skips so called "My Hall" anyway. He doens't belong in Skips hall. He belongs in the Hall of Fame. f*** that Hall of the very Good. Skip can fall on a spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 skip has been one of the biggest pieces of crap in sports journalism for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyrave Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Sh*t Bayless consistently baffles and annoys me to no end. Especially on 1st & 10. Woody Paige keeps me sane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Pretty stupid article. Yet, I enjoy watching Bayless be a dick. Somebody has to be the bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I can't believe someone actually paid him to write this. What's sad, this guy (while being "righteous") probably believes that Bernie Williams belongs in the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japa Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 so according to this guy, a LOT of career hits and homeruns and consistency (sp?) don't get you into the hall, but all-star appearances, "carrying your team to the WS(it's a team sport)" does that? what a jerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madman81 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 That's not "just in". Das is right. Bayless has been a dick for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geemoney Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Sh*t Bayless consistently baffles and annoys me to no end. Especially on 1st & 10. Woody Paige keeps me sane. 858104[/snapback] Sometimes I wonder if he actually believes what he is saying, or just says it because its the opposite of what Woody thinks, and he wants to get him stirred up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beinfest4Prez Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 You shoulda heard Sporting News Radio at 2 am last night. The host was ranting on how Skip Bayless is an ass and incredibly stupid for writing this. It was great. And that article might be the stupidest thing ever written. Sure he played in hitters ballparks, but 3000 hits isnt exactly non HOF. Pete Rose might be the only 3000+ hitter not in the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPosey Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 sad thing is, Bayless has a vote on who gets in the hall and who doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Skip Bayless, Jay Mariotti, and Woody Paige should all be drowned. Half, these "respected" columnists ESPN hires to do various jobs are hacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 this tool is just trying to draw some attention. "Skip Hall of Fame", How about he STFU. Very Good for a very long time should get you in the HOF. Baseball is one of the most difficult sports to play, if you are consistent for a very long time I say you are pretty darn good athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 btw, no doubt in my mind that Palmeiro is a first ballot HOF - Monster Numbers (500 or 600 HR, 3,000+ Hits when is all set and done) - Classy Guy (goes a long way in the voting, no problems off the field) - Persived to be clean (not tarnished by Roids scandals) - Longevity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Exactly, look at all the players who had great years in their prime but did nothing past 32. Their's countless numbers of those type of players. The fact that you were one of the best for that long is reason enough to be in the hall. Age is a nasty little thing, and the fact that Raffy has avoided it for such a long time earns him a spot in the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVPosey Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 btw, no doubt in my mind that Palmeiro is a first ballot HOF - Monster Numbers (500 or 600 HR, 3,000+ Hits when is all set and done) - Classy Guy (goes a long way in the voting, no problems off the field) - Persived to be clean (not tarnished by Roids scandals) - Longevity 858455[/snapback] did you read Canseco's book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 btw, no doubt in my mind that Palmeiro is a first ballot HOF - Monster Numbers (500 or 600 HR, 3,000+ Hits when is all set and done) - Classy Guy (goes a long way in the voting, no problems off the field) - Persived to be clean (not tarnished by Roids scandals) - Longevity 858455[/snapback] did you read Canseco's book? 858517[/snapback] :lol It's Jose Canseco, you're actually going to take that seriously? The guy was reaching for any name possible that would spike interest from the public. That rag has no credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 btw, no doubt in my mind that Palmeiro is a first ballot HOF - Monster Numbers (500 or 600 HR, 3,000+ Hits when is all set and done) - Classy Guy (goes a long way in the voting, no problems off the field) - Persived to be clean (not tarnished by Roids scandals) - Longevity 858455[/snapback] did you read Canseco's book? 858517[/snapback] from all the players that sat in front of Congress. Rafy was the most believable. next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 And that article might be the stupidest thing ever written. Sure he played in hitters ballparks, but 3000 hits isnt exactly non HOF. Pete Rose might be the only 3000+ hitter not in the HOF. Every player with 3,000 hits eligble for the Hall of Fame has been inducted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beinfest4Prez Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 And that article might be the stupidest thing ever written. Sure he played in hitters ballparks, but 3000 hits isnt exactly non HOF. Pete Rose might be the only 3000+ hitter not in the HOF. Every player with 3,000 hits eligble for the Hall of Fame has been inducted 859144[/snapback] Exactly, hence Pete Rose. :mischief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyrave Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Bottom Line: If you belong to a Statistical Club of only 4 people that's about as automatic HOF as you can get. Especially if he manages to get to 600 homers, he'll enter a 3-man club. (Same group minus Murray) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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