I dont have a problem...giving Loria's past history...with him having a mandate considering he has had a very shady career as an owner, even back to his days owning MiLB teams.

While Sosnick is getting on my nerves, that Elijah line was hilarious.

 

 

+1000000000000000

Not much to share here due to it being an insider article, but....

 

Within the same piece, Olney explains the reasoning behind the Marlins' reluctance to deal Josh Johnson this winter, comparing the situation to the Indians' handling of Cliff Lee. If Florida starts strong in 2010, Johnson will help them contend. If they fall out of the playoff race, however, they could potentially trade the right-hander before next year's deadline and still demand a significant return.

 

Olney also mentions that extension talks between Johnson and the Marlins hit a snag because the 25-year-old is looking for at least four guaranteed years, and the club didn't want to guarantee that fourth year.

 

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/olney-on-scutaro-barajas-johnson.html

Well, JJ is going to stay. Well at least for Opening Day 2010 anyway....

 

 

 

According to MLB.com's Joe Frisaro, Marlins GM Michael Hill told 790 The Ticket that Josh Johnson will open next season with the Marlins. The big righty has been involved in his share of trade rumors since the season ended, partly because extension talks aren't progressing and partly because he's an arbitration-eligible Marlin. So will Johnson still be on the Marlins come April?

 

 

"Yes," Hill said. "I can say with certainty, yes."

Hill knows other teams have interest in Johnson, but says he wants to build around pitching. The cost-conscious Marlins may have to consider dealing Johnson before he hits free agency after the 2011 season, but he's not going anywhere before Opening Day.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/josh-johnson-wont-be-traded-this-offseason.html

Some potentially good news, I guess.

 

Hope everybody had a great Thanksgiving, and I trust those rumors about Josh Johnson not making it to Opening Day or the Marlins "reportedly being engaged in talks" with the Red Sox about Hanley Ramirez didn't cause any unnecessary indigestion.

 

Was glad to hear General Manager Michael Hill squash this Tweeted notion by my colleague, John Perrotto, that the Marlins are "very willing" to move Johnson for the right package. Hill went on 790 The Ticket's new Hot Stove baseball show Saturday and, if memory serves, used the word "certainty" to characterize the probability of Johnson being on the 2010 club.

 

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson not only throws the first pitch for the Marlins in next season's opener, but the three to follow. My understanding is the Marlins aren't going to let their distaste for the way Johnson's agent, Matt Sosnick, handled their opening round of negotiations hinder their efforts to lock up Johnson this offseason. Don't be surprised if the two sides ultimately come to terms on a deal that will keep Johnson in a Marlins uniform beyond 2011, when he's eligible to become a free agent. If and when the Marlins commit to that fourth guaranteed year, no reason why talks won't resume.

 

As for Ramirez, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News listed David Samson as No. 7 on his top 10 turkeys in baseball. His reasoning: "The Florida Marlins president obviously has no shame. After finally succeeding in securing a new taxpayer-funded stadium for the Marlins in downtown Miami - supposedly enabling the Marlins to have the financial means to keep their star players - Samson demonstrated he has no intention of doing that when he refused to give his best pitcher, Josh Johnson, a four-year extension. Now it also looks as if Hanley Ramirez won't ever see that new stadium in a Marlins uniform as the Red Sox, who let incumbent Alex Gonzalez go, are reportedly engaged in talks with Florida about reacquiring the All-Star shortstop."

 

Not sure who's reporting the Marlins and Red Sox are engaged in talks. I haven't seen that anywhere, and it makes absolutely no sense. We don't need Mike Hill or Admin Beinfest or anyone else to tell us Ramirez isn't going anywhere. Neither the Red Sox nor probably any other team for that matter could put together an attractive enough package that one, fits within the Marlins financial structure, and two, makes the Marlins better in 2010.

 

Even at $7 million, chances are Ramirez outperforms his contract. And speaking of contracts and payrolls, spoke with someone who's been in contact with a member of the Marlins' front office. Word is the payroll will increase slightly to about $40 million.

 

 

 

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/2009/11/florida-marlins-josh-johnson-hanley-ramirez-nonsense-payroll-to-increase-a-couple-of-ticks.html

 

I guess that means Cantu is definitely staying.

I guess that means Cantu is definitely staying.

 

 

 

lol - you know we all read into things what we want to - first thought I had was "well there's JJ's raise" then I thought "hey maybe they'll keep uggla".

 

I guess it's just in the eye of the beholder. :brigginbounce

I guess that means Cantu is definitely staying.

 

 

 

lol - you know we all read into things what we want to - first thought I had was "well there's JJ's raise" then I thought "hey maybe they'll keep uggla".

 

I guess it's just in the eye of the beholder. :brigginbounce

Well. I've already cut in addition to Hermida, Nunez and Pinto off of this team to get under the proverbial "40 million mark"

 

C John Baker $415,000

1B Gaby Sanchez $405,000

2B Chris Coghlan $410,000

3B Jorge Cantu $5,750,000

SS Hanley Ramirez $7,000,000

LF Cody Ross $4,200,000

CF Cameron Maybin $405,000

RF Brett Carroll $415,000

B Emilio Bonifacio $415,000

B Wes Helms $950,000

B Ronny Paulino $900,000

B “Ross Gload� $1,000,000

B "Veteran Left Handed 1B/LF" $1,000,000

 

SP Josh Johnson $4,500,000

SP Ricky Nolasco $4,250,000

SP Andrew Miller $2,000,000

SP Chris Volstad $415,000

SP Anibal Sanchez $1,200,000

RP Matt Lindstrom $1,650,000

RP Dan Meyer $415,000

RP Brian Sanches $415,000

RP Burke Badenhop $415,000

RP Rick Vanden Hurk $415,000

RP Hunter Jones $415,000

RP Chris Leroux/Tim Wood $405,000

 

$39,760,000

 

Uggla is going to make just under $8 million next year, probably like $7.75. We'll use that hypothetically.

 

Cutting Cantu (and this is besides the fact one of the papers already reported Cantu is near 100% to come back), gets rid of most of it. Now you have a black hole at 3B again, but let's ignore that too. There is still at least $2.2 million to shed (because whoever we replace, gets a club controlled salary, and we have $250k under $40 to play with to impact that a little).

 

Notice West isn't there, so let's just dump Anibal. We just saved $800,000. What else can we realistically cut? The bench or lindstorm. Well Let's promote Morrison to 1B I guess, and move Gaby to 3B and just suck up the defense. That eliminates a bench lefty, so we've saved another $600,000. We're still not under $40 so something else needs to go, but we already have Gaby relatively out of position. Coghlan is still in LF. No bench depth. No starting pitching depth...... but we have Uggla.

 

C John Baker $415,000

1B Logan Morrison $405,000

2B Dan Uggla $7,750,000

3B Gaby Sanchez $405,000

SS Hanley Ramirez $7,000,000

LF Chris Coghlan $410,000

CF Cameron Maybin $405,000

RF Cody Ross $4,200,000

B Emilio Bonifacio $415,000

B Wes Helms $950,000

B Ronny Paulino $900,000

B “Ross Gload� $1,000,000

B Brett Carroll $415,000

 

SP Josh Johnson $4,500,000

SP Ricky Nolasco $4,250,000

SP Andrew Miller $2,000,000

SP Chris Volstad $415,000

SP Sean West $415,000

RP Matt Lindstrom $1,650,000

RP Dan Meyer $415,000

RP Brian Sanches $415,000

RP Burke Badenhop $415,000

RP Rick Vanden Hurk $415,000

RP Hunter Jones $415,000

RP Chris Leroux $405,000

 

$40,380,000

 

 

So eye of the beholder? Sure, read it however you like. But keeping Uggla is a really bad idea unless payroll is in the $43+ range so be able to keep the extra 3-4 guys around for depth. But even regardless, the Cantu team is probably a better team than the Uggla team, especially considering trading Uggla is going to net a larger prospect package and realistically provide further AA/AAA depth with at least 1 impact prospect that happens sooner or later. If we add another big time pitcher to AA/AAA, and let's say Tucker/Ceda come back strong, the staff has the potential to turn from good, to nasty, really quickly.

 

I'm a strong proponent of team 1 here. The only change, is if you want to put Anibal/West into the bullpen and keep Leroux/Wood in AAA until someone gets hurt. Plus keeping Morrison and Petersen in AAA for at least 2 months to not only let them hit AAA a bit, but to deflect arbitration 3 years from now. Because that still matters big time even with a new stadium.

 

-Sign Johnson for 4, anywhere from $39-44 million is fine. If you do lower, fantastic.

-Don't give Gload and a Veteran lefty 1B/LF to help out Gaby/Carroll/Bonifacio for the bench that much money. Combined, $2-2.25 million. Which should be enough.

-Find organizational depth for the middle infield and loogys, because there is absolutely nothing behind Bonifacio and H. Jones here (unless Tank is healthy, but like that will happen)

-Make smart trades with Uggla and Nunez for as much pitching as you can get. If you can trade Pinto and Amezaga and not DFA, that's great too.

 

And really, that's it. That's the entire offseason and it's a success if they can do those 4 things.

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

 

With the amount of right handers we currently have; Nunez, Lindstrom, Sanchez, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop, Leroux, Wood, Tucker, Ceda, Penn, and even C. Martinez, Buente, Sinkbiel, and Harvey are on the 40 man roster, I highly doubt we would offer anything more than $500,000 to any veteran right handed relief pitcher. We probably can't even afford both of Nunez and Lindstrom. Everyone else is $415,000 or less.

 

We have massive payroll constraints at $40 million. Just keeping Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Johnson, Nolasco, A. Miller, and Helms, is going to cost $24 million. That's 7 players, The other 18 on the team are going to make less than $16 million combined. Which we can do as shown with team 1 above, but there is just no room for luxuries like having a better 3rd or 4th righty in the pen versus Vanden Hurk, Wood, or Leroux.

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

 

With the amount of right handers we currently have; Nunez, Lindstrom, Sanchez, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop, Leroux, Wood, Tucker, Ceda, Penn, and even C. Martinez, Buente, Sinkbiel, and Harvey are on the 40 man roster, I highly doubt we would offer anything more than $500,000 to any veteran right handed relief pitcher. We probably can't even afford both of Nunez and Lindstrom. Everyone else is $415,000 or less.

 

We have massive payroll constraints at $40 million. Just keeping Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Johnson, Nolasco, A. Miller, and Helms, is going to cost $24 million. That's 7 players, The other 18 on the team are going to make less than $16 million combined. Which we can do as shown with team 1 above, but there is just no room for luxuries like having a better 3rd or 4th righty in the pen versus Vanden Hurk, Wood, or Leroux.

 

 

I'd rather have Donnelly over both Nunez and Lindstrom. Cheaper...and better.

Let's go ahead and trade A.Miller for what he's equal to: a crate of baseballs.

Let's go ahead and trade A.Miller for what he's equal to: a crate of baseballs.

 

 

I don't know, with the returns I've come to expect from this organization, we'd probably only get two baseballs in return, with one of them having scuff marks on it.

I got the feeling Miller's year is this year. He's starting to compare to Randy Johnson in 89 on.

 

Don't be surpised to see him develop into a 14-11 pitcher with a 3.65 ERA this year. He's got all the tools, he just needs to harness them.

 

Comparisons are close, underachieving for years, got traded, become a stingy lefty, then a dominant one.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsra05.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/millean01.shtml

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

 

With the amount of right handers we currently have; Nunez, Lindstrom, Sanches, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop, Leroux, Wood, Tucker, Ceda, Penn, and even C. Martinez, Buente, Sinkbiel, and Harvey are on the 40 man roster, I highly doubt we would offer anything more than $500,000 to any veteran right handed relief pitcher. We probably can't even afford both of Nunez and Lindstrom. Everyone else is $415,000 or less.

 

We have massive payroll constraints at $40 million. Just keeping Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Johnson, Nolasco, A. Miller, and Helms, is going to cost $24 million. That's 7 players, The other 18 on the team are going to make less than $16 million combined. Which we can do as shown with team 1 above, but there is just no room for luxuries like having a better 3rd or 4th righty in the pen versus Vanden Hurk, Wood, or Leroux.

 

 

I'd rather have Donnelly over both Nunez and Lindstrom. Cheaper...and better.

But we can control Nunez and Lindstrom next year if they break out, which they could always do. Donnelly isn't exactly young and healthy. And the difference in salary really isn't going to do much. It wouldn't let us keep N. Johnson or Uggla. All it would do is let us.... keep Ross Gload and a second decent bench bat, versus trying to luck out with a guy for $500k. I'm not to worried about this.

 

I think you keep the youth and let the bullpen sort itself out. I think a better performance from the starters, going an extra .2-1 innings per game, will greatly enhance the bullpen this coming year. I also have high hopes for those first 10 arms listed, that 5 will be able to get outs. Besides, Sanches and Donnelly were free last year. Justin Miller, Lee Gardner, Doug Waecther, Joe Nelson..... I think if nothing else, Beinfest has proved he can find relievers. Maybe we have some Julio and Ayala screw ups, but in the end, performance works itself out here.

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

 

With the amount of right handers we currently have; Nunez, Lindstrom, Sanches, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop, Leroux, Wood, Tucker, Ceda, Penn, and even C. Martinez, Buente, Sinkbiel, and Harvey are on the 40 man roster, I highly doubt we would offer anything more than $500,000 to any veteran right handed relief pitcher. We probably can't even afford both of Nunez and Lindstrom. Everyone else is $415,000 or less.

 

We have massive payroll constraints at $40 million. Just keeping Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Johnson, Nolasco, A. Miller, and Helms, is going to cost $24 million. That's 7 players, The other 18 on the team are going to make less than $16 million combined. Which we can do as shown with team 1 above, but there is just no room for luxuries like having a better 3rd or 4th righty in the pen versus Vanden Hurk, Wood, or Leroux.

 

 

I'd rather have Donnelly over both Nunez and Lindstrom. Cheaper...and better.

But we can control Nunez and Lindstrom next year if they break out, which they could always do. Donnelly isn't exactly young and healthy. And the difference in salary really isn't going to do much. It wouldn't let us keep N. Johnson or Uggla. All it would do is let us.... keep Ross Gload and a second decent bench bat, versus trying to luck out with a guy for $500k. I'm not to worried about this.

 

I think you keep the youth and let the bullpen sort itself out. I think a better performance from the starters, going an extra .2-1 innings per game, will greatly enhance the bullpen this coming year. I also have high hopes for those first 10 arms listed, that 5 will be able to get outs. Besides, Sanches and Donnelly were free last year. Justin Miller, Lee Gardner, Doug Waecther, Joe Nelson..... I think if nothing else, Beinfest has proved he can find relievers. Maybe we have some Julio and Ayala screw ups, but in the end, performance works itself out here.

 

 

I'm kind of confused. You think 1 of those 2 guys is coming back? As for Nunez and Lindstrom...I don't want to see both of them back. I won't mind if one of them comes back, but not both.

The Marlins should give Donnelly a contract.

 

With the amount of right handers we currently have; Nunez, Lindstrom, Sanches, Vanden Hurk, Badenhop, Leroux, Wood, Tucker, Ceda, Penn, and even C. Martinez, Buente, Sinkbiel, and Harvey are on the 40 man roster, I highly doubt we would offer anything more than $500,000 to any veteran right handed relief pitcher. We probably can't even afford both of Nunez and Lindstrom. Everyone else is $415,000 or less.

 

We have massive payroll constraints at $40 million. Just keeping Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Johnson, Nolasco, A. Miller, and Helms, is going to cost $24 million. That's 7 players, The other 18 on the team are going to make less than $16 million combined. Which we can do as shown with team 1 above, but there is just no room for luxuries like having a better 3rd or 4th righty in the pen versus Vanden Hurk, Wood, or Leroux.

 

 

I'd rather have Donnelly over both Nunez and Lindstrom. Cheaper...and better.

But we can control Nunez and Lindstrom next year if they break out, which they could always do. Donnelly isn't exactly young and healthy. And the difference in salary really isn't going to do much. It wouldn't let us keep N. Johnson or Uggla. All it would do is let us.... keep Ross Gload and a second decent bench bat, versus trying to luck out with a guy for $500k. I'm not to worried about this.

 

I think you keep the youth and let the bullpen sort itself out. I think a better performance from the starters, going an extra .2-1 innings per game, will greatly enhance the bullpen this coming year. I also have high hopes for those first 10 arms listed, that 5 will be able to get outs. Besides, Sanches and Donnelly were free last year. Justin Miller, Lee Gardner, Doug Waecther, Joe Nelson..... I think if nothing else, Beinfest has proved he can find relievers. Maybe we have some Julio and Ayala screw ups, but in the end, performance works itself out here.

 

 

I'm kind of confused. You think 1 of those 2 guys is coming back? As for Nunez and Lindstrom...I don't want to see both of them back. I won't mind if one of them comes back, but not both.

You said you'd rather have Donnelly because he's cheaper. Any cost savings with Donnelly instead of Nunez or Lindstrom, would be incredibly miniscule to the bottom line of being able to keep an additional player. So being "cheaper" doesn't really matter with the relievers. It isn't "affording" us the opportunity to keep someone that we're not going to be able to. Like Johnson or Uggla.

You said you'd rather have Donnelly because he's cheaper. Any cost savings with Donnelly instead of Nunez or Lindstrom, would be incredibly miniscule to the bottom line of being able to keep an additional player. So being "cheaper" doesn't really matter with the relievers. It isn't "affording" us the opportunity to keep someone that we're not going to be able to. Like Johnson or Uggla.

 

 

Oh, I see what you mean, now.

ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Marlins are "telling other teams they still believe they'll wind up signing [Josh Johnson] to a long-term deal," despite reaching an apparent impasse in the talks last month. Furthermore, Stark talked to a source who spoke to a Marlins exec who says that the Fish offered three guaranteed years with an easy vesting option for a fourth. If that vesting option is the only real stumbling block, maybe the two sides can reach an agreement.

ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Marlins are "telling other teams they still believe they'll wind up signing [Josh Johnson] to a long-term deal," despite reaching an apparent impasse in the talks last month. Furthermore, Stark talked to a source who spoke to a Marlins exec who says that the Fish offered three guaranteed years with an easy vesting option for a fourth. If that vesting option is the only real stumbling block, maybe the two sides can reach an agreement.

My fingers are crossed.

YES YES YES YES YES YES!

YES YES YES YES YES YES!

 

Chill out, this doesn't mean anything yet.

 

I mean, it's what I expected regardless, noone ends talks with this many months before the season.

3:19pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports say Johnson would accept a four-year, $42MM extension, but the Marlins offered three years and $23MM. It seems to me that both the Marlins and Johnson's agent Matt Sosnick are using Zack Greinke's deal as a baseline. The writers note that Johnson and Felix Hernandez have some similarities, but Felix might require four years and $40-50MM to extend.

3:19pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports say Johnson would accept a four-year, $42MM extension, but the Marlins offered three years and $23MM. It seems to me that both the Marlins and Johnson's agent Matt Sosnick are using Zack Greinke's deal as a baseline. The writers note that Johnson and Felix Hernandez have some similarities, but Felix might require four years and $40-50MM to extend.

 

Hmm. The Marlins are offering basically $7.5 mil a year for 3 years, and Johnson wants $10.5 mil/year for four years? I don't like that big gap there, unless this is a very early stage in negotiations.

3:19pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports say Johnson would accept a four-year, $42MM extension, but the Marlins offered three years and $23MM. It seems to me that both the Marlins and Johnson's agent Matt Sosnick are using Zack Greinke's deal as a baseline. The writers note that Johnson and Felix Hernandez have some similarities, but Felix might require four years and $40-50MM to extend.

 

Hmm. The Marlins are offering basically $7.5 mil a year for 3 years, and Johnson wants $10.5 mil/year for four years? I don't like that big gap there, unless this is a very early stage in negotiations.

 

the big difference is because of arbitration. The one year that's not on "our" offer is a free agent year. If we assume, oh, 14m for that one year, JJ would be looking for 3 years/28m.

 

5m over 3 years is a pretty big gap still though

 

My assumption is they want something like

 

5+8+14.5+14.5 = 42m

 

and we're offering something like

4+7+12 = 23m

 

so adding that 4th year at the same rate as the third year would put us at 4 years/35m, or 7 mil off

 

Whats' right dab in the middle between the two offers?

 

4 years/38 mil, aka Greinke's contract, lol

3:19pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports say Johnson would accept a four-year, $42MM extension, but the Marlins offered three years and $23MM. It seems to me that both the Marlins and Johnson's agent Matt Sosnick are using Zack Greinke's deal as a baseline. The writers note that Johnson and Felix Hernandez have some similarities, but Felix might require four years and $40-50MM to extend.

 

Hmm. The Marlins are offering basically $7.5 mil a year for 3 years, and Johnson wants $10.5 mil/year for four years? I don't like that big gap there, unless this is a very early stage in negotiations.

 

the big difference is because of arbitration. The one year that's not on "our" offer is a free agent year. If we assume, oh, 14m for that one year, JJ would be looking for 3 years/28m.

 

5m over 3 years is a pretty big gap still though

 

My assumption is they want something like

 

5+8+14.5+14.5 = 42m

 

and we're offering something like

4+7+12 = 23m

 

so adding that 4th year at the same rate as the third year would put us at 4 years/35m, or 7 mil off

 

Whats' right dab in the middle between the two offers?

 

4 years/38 mil, aka Greinke's contract, lol

 

I mean, it's super early. I think it's expected that the Marlins start off negotiations in the neighborhood of Greinke's contract, so this seems entirely reasonable to me. Let them end up at 4/40, and everyone can be happy (it would seem).