A long losing season?

 

We have a positive run differential and have been on the wrong side of a couple of recent close games despite having 3 guys clearly underperforming. Come on.

Yeah, we ain't the Orioles here. We will probably be what we have been the past couple of seasons: a team that hovers around .500, with us hopefully ending up on the positive side. That isn't a bad thing if the wildcard remains in reach.

 

In past years, I have said I am fine with us building a culture of a winning team in that we finish above .500 and somewhere in the top 3 in the division. However, I am getting the playoff itch and would like us to make a run in October before the new stadium opens up. Stop being such a tease, Fish!

A long losing season?

 

We have a positive run differential and have been on the wrong side of a couple of recent close games despite having 3 guys clearly underperforming. Come on.

 

 

are they underperforming or did they overperform last year ? That can cut both ways.

Cody Ross has shown to be an ~.800 OPS bat, he's definitely underperforming.. Chris Coghlan definitely overperformed last year, but he's .400 points below that. He's much, much better than he's player right now.

A long losing season?

 

We have a positive run differential and have been on the wrong side of a couple of recent close games despite having 3 guys clearly underperforming. Come on.

 

 

are they underperforming or did they overperform last year ? That can cut both ways.

 

 

No, they are underperforming. Seriously, stop being stupid.

 

Cody Ross has never been this terrible with us, and he's been here for awhile.

Coghlan showed what he could do last year, and in the minors he was always a guy who could hit...with good BB:K rates, which he does not have this year.

 

Our outfield is really underperforming, and really...there's no one on the team exceeding expectations. Yet, we're only a game under .500. I'm not saying it's a playoff team, but this is not a terrible team.

 

Calm down, MUNGO.

A long losing season?

 

We have a positive run differential and have been on the wrong side of a couple of recent close games despite having 3 guys clearly underperforming. Come on.

 

 

are they underperforming or did they overperform last year ? That can cut both ways.

This team, with this core, has been one of the best offensive teams in the NL for the last 4 years. I think it's safe to say that they're underperforming.

A long losing season?

 

We have a positive run differential and have been on the wrong side of a couple of recent close games despite having 3 guys clearly underperforming. Come on.

 

 

are they underperforming or did they overperform last year ? That can cut both ways.

 

 

No, they are underperforming. Seriously, stop being stupid.

 

Cody Ross has never been this terrible with us, and he's been here for awhile.

Coghlan showed what he could do last year, and in the minors he was always a guy who could hit...with good BB:K rates, which he does not have this year.

 

Our outfield is really underperforming, and really...there's no one on the team exceeding expectations. Yet, we're only a game under .500. I'm not saying it's a playoff team, but this is not a terrible team.

 

Calm down, MUNGO.

 

You can call Coghlan under-performing, which would be true to some extent, but the truth is we don't know what extent that is. Lots of guys have had good rookie years like Coghlan, only to end up being a flash in the pan because they just outplayed themselves as a rookie, and the league figured them out. Don't forget that Coghlan is a LFer, a position where great hitters with good power dominate. Coghlan has to be producing hits and walks like crazy or he's simply not up to par at that position. And the last thing with the under/over performing, is that Coghlan right now doesn't look like he is going to magically become anything close to the hitter he was last year without some serious work, like a minor league stint. I just don't think, looking at his pathetic at-bats, that we can pencil him in to provide even average hitting for his position the rest of the year just because he was tremendous AS A ROOKIE.

But Coghlan does have a really good MiLB track record as a solid hitter. Last year's performance may well have been right up near his ML ceiling, but his stats in the minors do show that he has solid ability, and he has always done good work making contact and drawing walks.

Bye Bye Fredi?

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-May-042710

But Coghlan does have a really good MiLB track record as a solid hitter. Last year's performance may well have been right up near his ML ceiling, but his stats in the minors do show that he has solid ability, and he has always done good work making contact and drawing walks.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.

As for "he's going to underperform as a LF'er"...that could very well be true. Gaby Sanchez might not put up 1B type #'s either. Remember that that kinda evens out though because the production we get from SS, 2B, and C are all well above average. The bottom line is Coghlan doesn't have to do what he did last year; he just has to be his normal, solid self. Right now, he's definitely underperforming.

Bye Bye Fredi?

 

http://msn.foxsports...from-May-042710

 

 

At least Loria is actively taking an interest in the team, which some owners may not

But Coghlan does have a really good MiLB track record as a solid hitter. Last year's performance may well have been right up near his ML ceiling, but his stats in the minors do show that he has solid ability, and he has always done good work making contact and drawing walks.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.

As for "he's going to underperform as a LF'er"...that could very well be true. Gaby Sanchez might not put up 1B type #'s either. Remember that that kinda evens out though because the production we get from SS, 2B, and C are all well above average. The bottom line is Coghlan doesn't have to do what he did last year; he just has to be his normal, solid self. Right now, he's definitely underperforming.

 

A pathetic excuse not to get the most out of every position. But we've got a team blazing its way to a 13-14 record, that has also made the playoffs 0 times since 2003, so I guess they know what they are doing.

But Coghlan does have a really good MiLB track record as a solid hitter. Last year's performance may well have been right up near his ML ceiling, but his stats in the minors do show that he has solid ability, and he has always done good work making contact and drawing walks.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.

As for "he's going to underperform as a LF'er"...that could very well be true. Gaby Sanchez might not put up 1B type #'s either. Remember that that kinda evens out though because the production we get from SS, 2B, and C are all well above average. The bottom line is Coghlan doesn't have to do what he did last year; he just has to be his normal, solid self. Right now, he's definitely underperforming.

 

A pathetic excuse not to get the most out of every position. But we've got a team blazing its way to a 13-14 record, that has also made the playoffs 0 times since 2003, so I guess they know what they are doing.

 

Right. Because every team gets the most out of every position. If it was based on our offense, we'd probably make the playoffs a lot more often. The problem has been not getting consistency out of any pitcher not named Josh Johnson (and I guess Nolasco can be included, as well). The offense is absolutely playoff caliber if everyone performs to their expectations.

 

And Admin Beinfest does know what he's doing. Look at the payroll. Look at how competitive we've been. He's not a crappy GM, for crying out loud. He's getting blamed on here for "mistakes" in the draft. The MLB draft which is a total crapshoot every year.

But Coghlan does have a really good MiLB track record as a solid hitter. Last year's performance may well have been right up near his ML ceiling, but his stats in the minors do show that he has solid ability, and he has always done good work making contact and drawing walks.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.

As for "he's going to underperform as a LF'er"...that could very well be true. Gaby Sanchez might not put up 1B type #'s either. Remember that that kinda evens out though because the production we get from SS, 2B, and C are all well above average. The bottom line is Coghlan doesn't have to do what he did last year; he just has to be his normal, solid self. Right now, he's definitely underperforming.

 

A pathetic excuse not to get the most out of every position. But we've got a team blazing its way to a 13-14 record, that has also made the playoffs 0 times since 2003, so I guess they know what they are doing.

 

Right. Because every team gets the most out of every position. If it was based on our offense, we'd probably make the playoffs a lot more often. The problem has been not getting consistency out of any pitcher not named Josh Johnson (and I guess Nolasco can be included, as well). The offense is absolutely playoff caliber if everyone performs to their expectations.

 

And Admin Beinfest does know what he's doing. Look at the payroll. Look at how competitive we've been. He's not a crappy GM, for crying out loud. He's getting blamed on here for "mistakes" in the draft. The MLB draft which is a total crapshoot every year.

 

I look at what he did in 2006, with the payroll the lowest it would ever be, and see that he never could do one darn thing with that group of talent to make it any better. Thats where Beinfest has completely failed. Except for Kevin Gregg and Matt Lindstrom, I can't think of many trades that he made that actually helped this team get better, in fact most of them helped it get a lot worse. Look at the Rays, and they've done a tremendous job of taking a team that didn't have a high payroll and making them a perennial contender. And what it took to get them over the hump was their GM's ability to make creative trades, like trading Delmon Young for Matt Garza. Beinfest had as much young talent in 2006 as the Rays had in 2007, if not even more, but one team was actually actively trying to turn a young team into a team that believed they could win.

 

All Beinfest has ever done is take young talent, take the guys whose value is lowest, ditch them off for absolutely laughable returns, and then try to rip somebody off at the trade deadline, which few teams are willing to oblige. That's not a winning formula, its a formula for mediocrity, which is all we've been. That doesn't win any awards in my book.

 

Not every playoff-bound team even has an all-star at every position, but most teams with any kind of aspirations at all try not to field below-average players for most of the year. And while we are lucky to have Uggla & Hanley up the middle, those guys as middle of the order bats just aren't as impressive as those teams that have a spectacular first baseman or left fielder, like Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, and Albert Pujols. So, honestly, I really think that we lack the punch even if we pretend like Hanley & Uggla are our first base bats.

I look at what he did in 2006, with the payroll the lowest it would ever be, and see that he never could do one darn thing with that group of talent to make it any better. Thats where Beinfest has completely failed. Except for Kevin Gregg and Matt Lindstrom, I can't think of many trades that he made that actually helped this team get better, in fact most of them helped it get a lot worse. Look at the Rays, and they've done a tremendous job of taking a team that didn't have a high payroll and making them a perennial contender. And what it took to get them over the hump was their GM's ability to make creative trades, like trading Delmon Young for Matt Garza. Beinfest had as much young talent in 2006 as the Rays had in 2007, if not even more, but one team was actually actively trying to turn a young team into a team that believed they could win.

 

All Beinfest has ever done is take young talent, take the guys whose value is lowest, ditch them off for absolutely laughable returns, and then try to rip somebody off at the trade deadline, which few teams are willing to oblige. That's not a winning formula, its a formula for mediocrity, which is all we've been. That doesn't win any awards in my book.

 

Not every playoff-bound team even has an all-star at every position, but most teams with any kind of aspirations at all try not to field below-average players for most of the year. And while we are lucky to have Uggla & Hanley up the middle, those guys as middle of the order bats just aren't as impressive as those teams that have a spectacular first baseman or left fielder, like Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, and Albert Pujols. So, honestly, I really think that we lack the punch even if we pretend like Hanley & Uggla are our first base bats.

 

 

First of all, Hanley was considerably better than Ryan Howard and Ryan Braun last year. You are wrong about that. Sure, Uggla is a 2nd-tier slugger.

 

I have no idea what the bolded means. He doesn't trade young guys; he trades veterans........:mis2

I look at what he did in 2006, with the payroll the lowest it would ever be, and see that he never could do one darn thing with that group of talent to make it any better. Thats where Beinfest has completely failed. Except for Kevin Gregg and Matt Lindstrom, I can't think of many trades that he made that actually helped this team get better, in fact most of them helped it get a lot worse. Look at the Rays, and they've done a tremendous job of taking a team that didn't have a high payroll and making them a perennial contender. And what it took to get them over the hump was their GM's ability to make creative trades, like trading Delmon Young for Matt Garza. Beinfest had as much young talent in 2006 as the Rays had in 2007, if not even more, but one team was actually actively trying to turn a young team into a team that believed they could win.

 

All Beinfest has ever done is take young talent, take the guys whose value is lowest, ditch them off for absolutely laughable returns, and then try to rip somebody off at the trade deadline, which few teams are willing to oblige. That's not a winning formula, its a formula for mediocrity, which is all we've been. That doesn't win any awards in my book.

 

Not every playoff-bound team even has an all-star at every position, but most teams with any kind of aspirations at all try not to field below-average players for most of the year. And while we are lucky to have Uggla & Hanley up the middle, those guys as middle of the order bats just aren't as impressive as those teams that have a spectacular first baseman or left fielder, like Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, and Albert Pujols. So, honestly, I really think that we lack the punch even if we pretend like Hanley & Uggla are our first base bats.

 

 

First of all, Hanley was considerably better than Ryan Howard and Ryan Braun last year. You are wrong about that. Sure, Uggla is a 2nd-tier slugger.

 

I have no idea what the bolded means. He doesn't trade young guys; he trades veterans........:mis2

 

Josh Willingham, Jeremy Hermida, Scott Olsen, Mike Jacobs...all of these guys were gotten rid of after a down year. One of these guys made us look stupid, one made us look smart, and two are undecided, but none of these (save for Jacobs, and its arguable that trading a starting first basemen for an average reliever whose sucked as a closer in a bad bullpen may be ok) were really gotten for anything. At least some point it would be nice to see Beinfest not just dump a player for nothing, but instead to try and trade a guy whose value is high and hope that a guy like Willingham can recover from the only down year he's ever had.

Josh Willingham wasn't really a young player anymore. And Scott Olsen's value was low because he sucked. He didn't trade them because they had down years, he traded them because of payroll issues.

Willingham also had issues with his back and he and the FO may have differed on how to handle that.

 

Could we have gotten better returns for some of those trades? Maybe. But even in their best years, those guys were not going to fetch a great return. At least, in my opinion.

And every single one of those guy was arbitration-eligible and not worth the money [to this team] that he was about to receive.

And every single one of those guy was arbitration-eligible and not worth the money [to this team] that he was about to receive.

 

 

 

Willingham and Hermida were pretty much the same service time. Yes, one was nearing 30 while the other was still young, but one guy had actually been pretty good and had low trade value while the younger guy was disappointing on offense and defense and had relatively high trade value. Also, Hermida went on to suck even more than he had before that trade, while Willingham has been a sensation in Washington.

 

Trading Hermida instead Willingham of wasn't the obvious choice despite the reasons I listed above, but what we actually did was a "safe" move that teams make when they are more afraid of getting burned by trading young talent than they do about actually trying to assemble the pieces of a winner. And our FO always takes the safe move, and of course they won't change when they practically win awards for getting to 80 wins. But they lack the fortitude and foresight to make the type of move that would get us to 90 wins, so mediocre is all this team will ever be.

In hindsight it would have been better to have Willingham's bat in 2009 than Hermida's bat, but I still don't think that the Marlins made the wrong move.

 

One of them was going to depart simply because of arbitration figures and the need to keep payroll down. In the short term, I think the move made sense because there was a fairly decent probability that Willingham would spend a considerable portion of 2009 on the DL due to his back problems in 2008. This didn't happen, but to the surprise of many.

 

Long term, it makes sense to have given Hermida that extra year to break out, considering how highly regarded a prospect he was. Many people forget that he had a pretty awesome 2007, which is an indication that he has the capability to have a good offensive season. A bounce back year in 2009 was not highly improbable for Hermida.

I'm assuming you meant a bounce back year in 2010?

 

He wasn't good in either 2008 or 2009.

I dunno who is trying to slander Beinfest but the man does his job pretty well if you ask me...

I dunno who is trying to slander Beinfest but the man does his job pretty well if you ask me...

 

Pretty good job if you ask anyone in baseball.

my question is are we saler or buyer ???it look like more saler and buyer because we not going postseason playing like this