Fredi will be gone if the FO feels like a change needs to be made. He is already on thin ice with Loria and we know Loria would not hesitate to clean house in the middle of a season (2003).

 

Not really sure what player changes they would implement. As pointed out, save for last night, offense hasn't really been a big albatross. Pitching is coming around a bit, but the Marlins can't afford for the rotation past JJ (if he has finally found his groove) and Nolasco to just pitch to their spot in the rotation. That is, we can't have the number 3 guy pitch as if he is just barely a number 3 guy, the 4 guys can't pitch as if he is barely a 4 guy, etc. We need them to play a little above their heads, so when they have their struggles, it is obvious that they are having an off night and are not that sorta pitcher. Right now, Robinson, Volstad and Sanchez have shown some flashes of being above average pitchers, but they also have struggled.

 

So basically, we need to see consistency from our SP. Even JJ. We are almost a month into the season and especially by May, it should be clear what or who the Marlins are playing with.

 

 

Robinson hasn't shown flashes of anything. He merely had a single game or two where his non-existent stuff wasn't rocked like it has been in most games this year and most games the last couple of years. The guy isn't any good but the Marlins can't ever afford veterans so when they get a team they will pay for one for them, they jump on it like nobodies business and then hold onto the guys even well after they've proven their ineffectiveness.

 

True. But as a fifth starter, if he can someone how make it through more games than not with his non-existent stuff not being rocked like in a few of his starts, then that would be welcomed. It would be part of the "playing above their heads" aspect. But only if Robinson is the 5th starter. If the Marlins are inserting him as the 3rd guy, that is troublesome.

 

I hope Volstad and Sanchez come around and come around strongly though. Sanchez right now is a good 4th starter, but I am still a little iffy with him. Volstad seems to be getting into the mold of a 3rd starter again, but it seems like he is starting to give up homer runs again. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Having the last three guys be interchangeable in terms of expectations (if we want to include Nate, and we don't have to), I don't think that's a good thing. It means a run of bad starts by those guys turns the team into "JJ, Nolasco, and pray for a hurricane."

 

There's nothing about Robertson to suggest that he won't get rocked every other start. That's the problem. He had an ERA over 6! two years ago, an ERA of 5.44 last year, one not too far under 5 three years ago, and one over 5 this year. The numbers show that he's no good, and my eyes tell me that he's no good every time I seem him pitch. You don't win in this league by putting players out there that are no good and just hoping the other team doesn't exploit them that particular day.

 

And enough of this "just a fifth starter" stuff. The guy has made the same number of starts as JJ and is starting every 5th day, just like the other 5 starters. Only around the ASB and in the playoffs does it make one lick of difference who the #1 and who the #5 are because teams just don't skip a 5th guy like they used to 15-20 years ago. There is nothing that makes the games that this guy starts as our 5th starter any different than the games that JJ starts.

 

 

The 5th starter argument means that most 5th starters suck, just like Robertson. Not even the best of teams have good 5th starters. Robertson being our #5 is the least of our problems. As of right now, the starting pitching has been above average. It really hasn't been the problem so far this year, and Robertson might've tired out in the 5th inning, considering he was going on 3 days rest for some reason.

When you're #4 has the same amount of walks as strike outs (Volstad), and you #5 has one more K than BB (Robertson), yeah, there's issues.

 

Anibal is doing fine so far. The biggest thing he's improved at is getting ahead of batters with first pitch strikes (Used to be below average at this, now is above average) and getting more swings on outside pitches (Against, used to be below average, now above average). Swapping Robertson and Hensley based off match ups could improve #5, as well as improve our lefty situation in the pen. I mean, it's the #5, don't have to be aces.

 

But Volstad is doing horrible. RVH and Tucker aren't exactly lighting it up in AAA. West and Miller are still injured. Our best starter in NOLA is a reliever who's starting out of need (Hunter Jones). And our only starter impressing in Jacksonville is a guy who struggled last year in Jupiter (Alejandro Sanabia).

 

Right now, the biggest thing that pops into my head is trading one of our bats for a pitcher, which automatically makes you think of San Fransico and Jonathan Sanchez. 1) He's left handed, no more "need" for Robertson to be in the rotation 2) He's posted very good peripherals from 2008-2009 3) He's posting even better peripherals this year (2.54 K/BB) 4) The teams actually match up and he's been a piece that's been in the mill for awhile. SFG can fill the rotation from within, we can fill offense from within.

 

The issue is, Cody is the piece who's have the most value to us in moving, but he both has very low value right now and lower value compared to Cantu and Uggla in a trade. Moving one of them means Coghlan back into the infield, but he's one of the current problems and obviously issues with him being in the IF. There's also LoMo at first and shifting Gaby to third, but again, there's defensive issues with that. You could then look at something like trading Cody for an IFer, than trader an IFer for a pitcher.

 

Or get realllllly imaginative, trade prospects for Lowell, trade Cody for prospects to negate that, trade Cantu for a Sanchez, then you have Stanton or LoMo in the OF, or both depending on what happens with CC.

 

But the biggest issue with trading Cody is he's Maybin's parachute. But Stanton can play CF "good enough" now, just won't long term as he continues to grow. And you could option Maybin instead, shift Cody to CF, then trade Cody in the offseason to replenish the prospects needed to grab Lowell.

 

There's a ton of possibilities we can do, I said the above not as a "We should do this" but a "We could do this and a lot of other stuff too." I really doubt there's going to be a "blow it up" thing like was the talk last May, because we have two ML ready bats who should contribute enough now in the minors.

Fredi will be gone if the FO feels like a change needs to be made. He is already on thin ice with Loria and we know Loria would not hesitate to clean house in the middle of a season (2003).

 

Not really sure what player changes they would implement. As pointed out, save for last night, offense hasn't really been a big albatross. Pitching is coming around a bit, but the Marlins can't afford for the rotation past JJ (if he has finally found his groove) and Nolasco to just pitch to their spot in the rotation. That is, we can't have the number 3 guy pitch as if he is just barely a number 3 guy, the 4 guys can't pitch as if he is barely a 4 guy, etc. We need them to play a little above their heads, so when they have their struggles, it is obvious that they are having an off night and are not that sorta pitcher. Right now, Robinson, Volstad and Sanchez have shown some flashes of being above average pitchers, but they also have struggled.

 

So basically, we need to see consistency from our SP. Even JJ. We are almost a month into the season and especially by May, it should be clear what or who the Marlins are playing with.

 

 

Robinson hasn't shown flashes of anything. He merely had a single game or two where his non-existent stuff wasn't rocked like it has been in most games this year and most games the last couple of years. The guy isn't any good but the Marlins can't ever afford veterans so when they get a team they will pay for one for them, they jump on it like nobodies business and then hold onto the guys even well after they've proven their ineffectiveness.

 

True. But as a fifth starter, if he can someone how make it through more games than not with his non-existent stuff not being rocked like in a few of his starts, then that would be welcomed. It would be part of the "playing above their heads" aspect. But only if Robinson is the 5th starter. If the Marlins are inserting him as the 3rd guy, that is troublesome.

 

I hope Volstad and Sanchez come around and come around strongly though. Sanchez right now is a good 4th starter, but I am still a little iffy with him. Volstad seems to be getting into the mold of a 3rd starter again, but it seems like he is starting to give up homer runs again. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Having the last three guys be interchangeable in terms of expectations (if we want to include Nate, and we don't have to), I don't think that's a good thing. It means a run of bad starts by those guys turns the team into "JJ, Nolasco, and pray for a hurricane."

 

There's nothing about Robertson to suggest that he won't get rocked every other start. That's the problem. He had an ERA over 6! two years ago, an ERA of 5.44 last year, one not too far under 5 three years ago, and one over 5 this year. The numbers show that he's no good, and my eyes tell me that he's no good every time I seem him pitch. You don't win in this league by putting players out there that are no good and just hoping the other team doesn't exploit them that particular day.

 

And enough of this "just a fifth starter" stuff. The guy has made the same number of starts as JJ and is starting every 5th day, just like the other 5 starters. Only around the ASB and in the playoffs does it make one lick of difference who the #1 and who the #5 are because teams just don't skip a 5th guy like they used to 15-20 years ago. There is nothing that makes the games that this guy starts as our 5th starter any different than the games that JJ starts.

 

 

The 5th starter argument means that most 5th starters suck, just like Robertson. Not even the best of teams have good 5th starters. Robertson being our #5 is the least of our problems. As of right now, the starting pitching has been above average. It really hasn't been the problem so far this year, and Robertson might've tired out in the 5th inning, considering he was going on 3 days rest for some reason.

 

He was going on 3 days rest because he was too terrible in Colorado to get through that game. If the poor start today was an aberration, that would be one thing. But it fits in line with the guy's last 3 years of ineptitude.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio. Overall, our starting pitching has been slightly above average as a whole this year. Our 6th-8th inning relief is the issue.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio.

 

 

 

Except K/BB is very important. Sinkerballers with bad K/BB are bad. Sinkerballers with good K/BB are good. Volstad has never been a strike out pitcher, no. The main difference for sinkerballers in K/BB is control. He's league average in BB/9.

 

Also, league average GB% is around 45%. He's at 48%. So, yeah, he's basically league average in gb rates too, he's not acting like a GB pitcher.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio. Overall, our starting pitching has been slightly above average as a whole this year. Our 6th-8th inning relief is the issue.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

 

 

Well, 11-11 with today's loss (forgot it was a early game so didn't get to check it out online). Pitching seems to be the weakness here. And yea, Fredi is gonna get fired if this keeps up come end of May.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio. Overall, our starting pitching has been slightly above average as a whole this year. Our 6th-8th inning relief is the issue.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

 

 

Well, 11-11 with today's loss (forgot it was a early game so didn't get to check it out online). Pitching seems to be the weakness here. And yea, Fredi is gonna get fired if this keeps up come end of May.

 

Our starters as a whole have given us more good starts than bad starts. Even our back end guys have given us each at least 2 starts of 6+ innings of 3 or less runs this season. Our issue is bullpen, simple as that. Our hitting is great, our starting pitching has been just about where we expected it to be, but the disappointment has been our bullpen is even worse than our meager expectations. The starting pitching is definitely not the reason we are only .500 right now.

 

As for Volstad, his first three starts this year were

 

6.1 IP 3 runs

6.2 IP 3 runs

6.0 IP 3 runs

 

You can't tell me that those numbers are terrible. For a #4 starter on this team, that is what we all hope to get, especially after the last two years of having guys that have just been absolutely terrible in that spot in the rotation.My point isn't that he has been amazing to begin the year, it's that he hasn't been "horrible" like NNY said. Sure, he could easily suck soon based on his FB to GB ratio, but we'll see if he can get that down. Use those numbers to judge him, not the K/BB ratio.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

 

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but what you are pointing out is exactly the reason why some of us are looking beyond the numbers like ERA and really worried that Volstad's pitches are going to flying all over the park just like the second half of last year. Everytime I've seen, the ball has been hit in the air an awful lot against him. Not every single one has ended up as an XBH, but like last game they will more often than not.

 

Simply put, if he doesn't start keeping the ball down, something he absolutely failed at in the second half of last year, he's not going to be successful. Unfortunately, that's not what I'm seeing and I hope someone who knows what/how will post some numbers on how Volstad's really been doing.

Just checked right now, and Volstad has gotten more flyball outs than groundball outs. So yeah, most likely not a good sign, at all.

Fredi will be gone if the FO feels like a change needs to be made. He is already on thin ice with Loria and we know Loria would not hesitate to clean house in the middle of a season (2003).

 

Not really sure what player changes they would implement. As pointed out, save for last night, offense hasn't really been a big albatross. Pitching is coming around a bit, but the Marlins can't afford for the rotation past JJ (if he has finally found his groove) and Nolasco to just pitch to their spot in the rotation. That is, we can't have the number 3 guy pitch as if he is just barely a number 3 guy, the 4 guys can't pitch as if he is barely a 4 guy, etc. We need them to play a little above their heads, so when they have their struggles, it is obvious that they are having an off night and are not that sorta pitcher. Right now, Robinson, Volstad and Sanchez have shown some flashes of being above average pitchers, but they also have struggled.

 

So basically, we need to see consistency from our SP. Even JJ. We are almost a month into the season and especially by May, it should be clear what or who the Marlins are playing with.

 

 

Robinson hasn't shown flashes of anything. He merely had a single game or two where his non-existent stuff wasn't rocked like it has been in most games this year and most games the last couple of years. The guy isn't any good but the Marlins can't ever afford veterans so when they get a team they will pay for one for them, they jump on it like nobodies business and then hold onto the guys even well after they've proven their ineffectiveness.

 

True. But as a fifth starter, if he can someone how make it through more games than not with his non-existent stuff not being rocked like in a few of his starts, then that would be welcomed. It would be part of the "playing above their heads" aspect. But only if Robinson is the 5th starter. If the Marlins are inserting him as the 3rd guy, that is troublesome.

 

I hope Volstad and Sanchez come around and come around strongly though. Sanchez right now is a good 4th starter, but I am still a little iffy with him. Volstad seems to be getting into the mold of a 3rd starter again, but it seems like he is starting to give up homer runs again. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Having the last three guys be interchangeable in terms of expectations (if we want to include Nate, and we don't have to), I don't think that's a good thing. It means a run of bad starts by those guys turns the team into "JJ, Nolasco, and pray for a hurricane."

 

There's nothing about Robertson to suggest that he won't get rocked every other start. That's the problem. He had an ERA over 6! two years ago, an ERA of 5.44 last year, one not too far under 5 three years ago, and one over 5 this year. The numbers show that he's no good, and my eyes tell me that he's no good every time I seem him pitch. You don't win in this league by putting players out there that are no good and just hoping the other team doesn't exploit them that particular day.

 

And enough of this "just a fifth starter" stuff. The guy has made the same number of starts as JJ and is starting every 5th day, just like the other 5 starters. Only around the ASB and in the playoffs does it make one lick of difference who the #1 and who the #5 are because teams just don't skip a 5th guy like they used to 15-20 years ago. There is nothing that makes the games that this guy starts as our 5th starter any different than the games that JJ starts.

 

Actually, wasn't one of the big things we heard this year and last the ability to skip the fifth starter in the beginning of the season due to the off-days? And I remember a couple of times when a starter has gone down, reports saying the team doesn't need a fifth guy till so-and-so due to the schedule. Teams might not skip the 5th guy willy-nilly anymore, but in modern baseball, the fifth starter isn't exactly the main focus of a rotation.

 

Sure, normally maybe there isn't a lot of difference between the fifth and first spots (though you will get a different number of starts, just by the very nature of having a season with a number of games not easily divisible by 5) most of the time, but there is a reason why your "ace" is considered to be your number one starter while most teams try to hide their weakest pitcher (relative to the rest of the staff) at the end of the rotation.

 

By and by, Robertson started on 3 (or 4, depending on how you look at it) days rest today. His last two starts were atrocious, one in a hitters friendly park where the Marlins traditionally play poorly, but before them, he was 2-1 with a 2.20 ERA. Of course, history shows he doesn't normally pitch to those numbers, but to say he doesn't even deserve to be in the rotation at this point is a bit of a panic button move. Especially when we don't have anybody in the wings that we can say for certain will be a whole lot better. RVH pitches well, but he is a rollercoaster like Volstad and Sanchez. He would be better than Nate, perhaps, but how much so? Again, in accepted baseball logic, whether or not you agree with it, would have Nate as the back of the rotation guy. For now, having him as the fifth starter is not a bad thing as long as he maintains an ERA around 4, 4.5 and occasionally hints at the type of quality starts he had in NY and Philly.

 

I am more worried about getting consistency out of Volstad and Sanchez than I am about Nate.

I hate this thread! Guys don't jinx the season! Can we changed it to what would happen if the Marlins were fighting for first place?

I hate this thread! Guys don't jinx the season! Can we changed it to what would happen if the Marlins were fighting for first place?

 

 

This is obviously a reverse jinx situation.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio. Overall, our starting pitching has been slightly above average as a whole this year. Our 6th-8th inning relief is the issue.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

 

 

Well, 11-11 with today's loss (forgot it was a early game so didn't get to check it out online). Pitching seems to be the weakness here. And yea, Fredi is gonna get fired if this keeps up come end of May.

 

Our starters as a whole have given us more good starts than bad starts. Even our back end guys have given us each at least 2 starts of 6+ innings of 3 or less runs this season. Our issue is bullpen, simple as that. Our hitting is great, our starting pitching has been just about where we expected it to be, but the disappointment has been our bullpen is even worse than our meager expectations. The starting pitching is definitely not the reason we are only .500 right now.

 

As for Volstad, his first three starts this year were

 

6.1 IP 3 runs

6.2 IP 3 runs

6.0 IP 3 runs

 

You can't tell me that those numbers are terrible. For a #4 starter on this team, that is what we all hope to get, especially after the last two years of having guys that have just been absolutely terrible in that spot in the rotation.My point isn't that he has been amazing to begin the year, it's that he hasn't been "horrible" like NNY said. Sure, he could easily suck soon based on his FB to GB ratio, but we'll see if he can get that down. Use those numbers to judge him, not the K/BB ratio.

 

Indicators, indicators, indicators. There's a reason why some of us are very concerned right now, and the fact of the matter is that just because a Volstad or Robertson went out there and didn't have a bad game doesn't mean that they were throwing the ball really well that day. It means that the essentially got lucky. Robertson its less of an analysis of his performance this year than the fact that he hasn't been good in the last 3 years, and now he's 3 years older than the last time he was good. So when he sucked the last two starts, its merely regression to the mean which happens when bad players are outperforming their natural talent. Statistical analysis sites like The Hardball Times have covered this concept in detail, I'm not going to go into it except to say that statistically Robertson is much more likely to be the bad pitcher we've seen recently than the guy who somehow got outs in a couple games.

 

As for Volstad, he is a sinkerballer who is not keeping the ball down and giving up a tremendous amount of fly balls, with which its pretty much impossible to sustain success, which is why it came unglued at Coors.

 

Essentially, both Volstad and Robertson were lucky to have those quality starts. And I don't find it exceptionally comforting to have it pointed out that they had these quality starts, because if they're getting lucky and we're .500, what's our record going to be when things regress to where they should be? Thats why I feel like hitting the panic button.

Volstad hasn't been bad at all. 3 Quality starts and one really bad start for him. Volstad has never been a strikeout pitcher. Should probably judge him on his GB to fly ball ratio, not his K/BB ratio. Overall, our starting pitching has been slightly above average as a whole this year. Our 6th-8th inning relief is the issue.

 

As for the question, if we are in last come the END of May, then it seems likely Fredi will be fired, and maybe a guy like Morrison or Stanton gets called up in hopes of a spark.

 

 

Well, 11-11 with today's loss (forgot it was a early game so didn't get to check it out online). Pitching seems to be the weakness here. And yea, Fredi is gonna get fired if this keeps up come end of May.

 

Our starters as a whole have given us more good starts than bad starts. Even our back end guys have given us each at least 2 starts of 6+ innings of 3 or less runs this season. Our issue is bullpen, simple as that. Our hitting is great, our starting pitching has been just about where we expected it to be, but the disappointment has been our bullpen is even worse than our meager expectations. The starting pitching is definitely not the reason we are only .500 right now.

 

As for Volstad, his first three starts this year were

 

6.1 IP 3 runs

6.2 IP 3 runs

6.0 IP 3 runs

 

You can't tell me that those numbers are terrible. For a #4 starter on this team, that is what we all hope to get, especially after the last two years of having guys that have just been absolutely terrible in that spot in the rotation.My point isn't that he has been amazing to begin the year, it's that he hasn't been "horrible" like NNY said. Sure, he could easily suck soon based on his FB to GB ratio, but we'll see if he can get that down. Use those numbers to judge him, not the K/BB ratio.

 

Indicators, indicators, indicators. There's a reason why some of us are very concerned right now, and the fact of the matter is that just because a Volstad or Robertson went out there and didn't have a bad game doesn't mean that they were throwing the ball really well that day. It means that the essentially got lucky. Robertson its less of an analysis of his performance this year than the fact that he hasn't been good in the last 3 years, and now he's 3 years older than the last time he was good. So when he sucked the last two starts, its merely regression to the mean which happens when bad players are outperforming their natural talent. Statistical analysis sites like The Hardball Times have covered this concept in detail, I'm not going to go into it except to say that statistically Robertson is much more likely to be the bad pitcher we've seen recently than the guy who somehow got outs in a couple games.

 

As for Volstad, he is a sinkerballer who is not keeping the ball down and giving up a tremendous amount of fly balls, with which its pretty much impossible to sustain success, which is why it came unglued at Coors.

 

Essentially, both Volstad and Robertson were lucky to have those quality starts. And I don't find it exceptionally comforting to have it pointed out that they had these quality starts, because if they're getting lucky and we're .500, what's our record going to be when things regress to where they should be? Thats why I feel like hitting the panic button.

 

 

That evens out. There are several hitters/bullpen pitchers underachieving, right now. Plus, it's not like we're lucky Volstad's terrible peripherals have produced a good ERA, his ERA is near 6.

I don't really know what to think

 

Seems like the starting rotation sometimes gives us impression of really great depth, and the batting lineup as well. Coghs needs to get on the ball or get set down to the minors soon. Maybin's cooled off, Cody hasn't played well either.

 

Honestly, I think Fredi should be replaced. I don't think he particularly sucks but sometimes you just need someone new to spark people and really get them back in the game.

I don't really know what to think

 

Seems like the starting rotation sometimes gives us impression of really great depth, and the batting lineup as well. Coghs needs to get on the ball or get set down to the minors soon. Maybin's cooled off, Cody hasn't played well either.

 

Honestly, I think Fredi should be replaced. I don't think he particularly sucks but sometimes you just need someone new to spark people and really get them back in the game.

 

 

I don't really like Fredi, he think he lacks the "flair" or charisma or whatever you want to call it that makes a great manager, he seems way too passive. But I'd almost feel bad for him if he was fired because he was brought in to be a yes man to the FO, and when you fire the manager who is the yes man whose fault is it really? But I'm not gonna deny, getting a non yes-man (would that be a "no" man?) could probably light a fire under a team like this where Fredi does nothing. Paging Jack McKeon...

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

If the Marlins are going to fire Fredi Gonzalez, they should probably be prepared to accept the fact that they might not get Bobby Valentine. The Orioles will probably fire Trembley soon and I wouldn't be surprised if they hire someone like Valentine.

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

 

 

I think that really says it all and I agree with you.

 

If there's any difference, I think the bullpen is a little worse so far, but that might change. You have such unknown factors in there.

If the Marlins are going to fire Fredi Gonzalez, they should probably be prepared to accept the fact that they might not get Bobby Valentine. The Orioles will probably fire Trembley soon and I wouldn't be surprised if they hire someone like Valentine.

 

 

Good, I really hate that guy on Baseball Tonight. Am I the only one who misses Steve Phillips? I know he put his tools in the wrong shed, but come on... I thought he was great.

If the Marlins are going to fire Fredi Gonzalez, they should probably be prepared to accept the fact that they might not get Bobby Valentine. The Orioles will probably fire Trembley soon and I wouldn't be surprised if they hire someone like Valentine.

 

 

Good, I really hate that guy on Baseball Tonight. Am I the only one who misses Steve Phillips? I know he put his tools in the wrong shed, but come on... I thought he was great.

 

I miss him too, he was the best analyst outside of Gammons. ESPN losing Gammons really makes it bleak on ESPN now. Olney and Turkejim (or however his name is spelled) are not near Gammons IMO.

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

 

 

I disagree. Many (most) of the team's players are headed into their primes. We should expect their performance to improve.

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

 

 

I disagree. Many (most) of the team's players are headed into their primes. We should expect their performance to improve.

 

I think they are in their prime, its just that they aren't that special. Tampa Bay has special players, we have decent players. I can't believe other people on the board can't see that. Its especially evident with our pitching. Its Johnson and everyone else. A team can't make the playoffs with one special pitcher, and perhaps one special infielder (Hanley) you need more than that, and frankly I'd love to hear someone make an argument that there is another "special" player on the team.

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

 

 

I disagree. Many (most) of the team's players are headed into their primes. We should expect their performance to improve.

 

I think they are in their prime, its just that they aren't that special. Tampa Bay has special players, we have decent players. I can't believe other people on the board can't see that. Its especially evident with our pitching. Its Johnson and everyone else. A team can't make the playoffs with one special pitcher, and perhaps one special infielder (Hanley) you need more than that, and frankly I'd love to hear someone make an argument that there is another "special" player on the team.

 

I would regard Ricky Nolasco in this "special" bracket you talk of based on the fact that his arsenal of pitches is "special". Striking out 16 in 1 game, including 9 in a row is "special". Of course he does have some bad days and last year his ERA was not what we wanted, however he is an excellent pitcher.

 

Who would you regard to be special on the Rays team? Longoria yes, Crawford, I would give you that. But who else? David Price should be in that category in a year or 2 (started this season really well) but not quite yet. They have a lot of decent players like Shields, Garza, Zobrist, Upton but they are not "special".

I think the team is just what the record says, probably a little above average. After all, this is mostly the same team as last year

 

 

I disagree. Many (most) of the team's players are headed into their primes. We should expect their performance to improve.

 

I think they are in their prime, its just that they aren't that special. Tampa Bay has special players, we have decent players. I can't believe other people on the board can't see that. Its especially evident with our pitching. Its Johnson and everyone else. A team can't make the playoffs with one special pitcher, and perhaps one special infielder (Hanley) you need more than that, and frankly I'd love to hear someone make an argument that there is another "special" player on the team.

 

I would regard Ricky Nolasco in this "special" bracket you talk of based on the fact that his arsenal of pitches is "special". Striking out 16 in 1 game, including 9 in a row is "special". Of course he does have some bad days and last year his ERA was not what we wanted, however he is an excellent pitcher.

 

Who would you regard to be special on the Rays team? Longoria yes, Crawford, I would give you that. But who else? David Price should be in that category in a year or 2 (started this season really well) but not quite yet. They have a lot of decent players like Shields, Garza, Zobrist, Upton but they are not "special".

 

Ditto on Nolasco, although he was decidedly un-special at the beginning last year he was outstanding in 2008 and has been pretty dominant this year.

 

I don't necessarily agree on TB though, although I can't necessarily call all their guys special its evident looking at their rotation that pretty much all their starting pitchers could be aces or really good #2's. Wade Davis, their current #5, may have the best pure stuff of all of them which is one reason why I really scoff at Nate Robertson's existence on this squad as justifiable. Also, looking at their position players, its true that maybe only a couple are genuinely special, but its astounding how pretty much every player on their squad is starting caliber. And what makes the real difference between them and us, or any other genuinely "good" team, is that our hitters as a whole lack plate discipline, while TB's are perhaps the most disciplined in the league.