Trading Uggla is not a bad thing, at all. It would suck to see him go, but we can get some major players in return.

f*** I really don't want Dominguez up so soon!

 

Gaby is most liekly gone since LoMo is younger, seemingly can put up better numbers and now can play both 1st and LF.

 

Gaby and Leo for a starting pitcher?

 

 

Leo bringing you much?? Sorry I don't have a lot of confidence there. True, he knows how throw hard, but he doesn't know how to listen. He lost his position because he only wanted to do it his way

 

Bold Statement.

Most of the time it was Ronnie who told him to throw the changeup, he just didn't execute it at times and let it hanging.

 

Sorry, Leo didn't impress me. Every time he came in I worried we would get out of the inning. I don't think that is what I want of a bullpen arm.

People keep forgetting the first 4 months of the season, where Leo was a pretty dominant closer.

Leo Nunez has some value in a trade. Look at his numbers this year.

Leo Nunez has some value in a trade. Look at his numbers this year.

 

 

Plus his age and the fact that he had 30 saves. Leo has trade value. More than people expect, too.

Honestly, LoMo is untradeable because he's

 

1) A left handed bat, something we don't have a plethora of

2) got an OBP about as high as Jason Heyward. I have no doubt the Marlins look at that, along with some of his other numbers, and realize he's just as untradeable as Mike Stanton.

3) Worth a lot more to us than the prospects teams will offer us in a trade in the offseason.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again, Gaby Sanchez is going to be traded before next season begins. Right now we have 2 first baseman's on the roster, with one of them currently misplaced in left field. This offseason the front office will decide who is more important to this team's future success, Gaby or Logan. In the end, Gaby will be traded for bullpen hope (you hope he'd be traded for a starting pitcher, but bullpen help will probably be what we get).

 

If we are going after a legitimate #2 pitcher, then Logan Morrison is the guy we trade. Honestly, I wouldn't even accept a Morrison for Hellickson trade. I'd be bold/crass and ask the Rays for both Hellickson and another pitcher. However, there is VERY little I would accept in a trade that would send away Logan. It would basically have to be a highway robbery kind of trade.

 

Right now things are still a bit unclear. Still very unlikely Dominguez starts the team next season at 3B (although he will be at some point next season). We don't know who will fill out the bullpen, who will be that 5th starter (seems unlikely now we go out and find a #2 guy since Beinfest also said JJ, Nolasco, Sanchez, and Volstad are guaranteed starting rotation spots next year), unknown who will be at 1B, and we have some minor issues with our bench. Add on top of that the contract negotiations with Uggla and Nolasco and we have ourselves an interesting offseason ahead of us.

People keep forgetting the first 4 months of the season, where Leo was a pretty dominant closer.

 

 

The season didn't end at 4 months.

I still think they'll entertain trading Hanley over Uggla. I know I'm crazy but I just have a feeling. Defensive improvements? One of them has to go.

At some point you have to stop holding on to your prospects for "the future" if you ever want to "win now." There are major holes on this team that need addressed this offseason, and you can't expect to address them simply by trading our odds and ends.

 

1. Bullpen

2. Catcher

3. Defense

4. Upgrade the Starting Rotation

 

As I stated in the shopping list thread, Logan Morrison is our best trade chip, and should be dangled this winter IMO. I think Logan could go a long way towards acquiring a legit #2 pitcher, rather than having to rely on Anibal or Ricky having a good year. Not only would the #2 starter upgrade our rotation, but ideally, it would help the bullpen by giving them an extra inning or two off every five days. Also, assuming Anibal and Ricky are the #3 and #4, that leaves two of Volstad, West, and Sanabia to potentially help in the pen if needed.

 

Swing Leo in some type of deal for a catcher, spend a little money on Trevor Hoffman, allowing Hensley to take over Leo's setup role, and you've shored up pretty much everything except the defense. I also stated previously that I don't believe that can be fixed without massive roster turnover, and the main culprits are those guys whose offense we can't live without.

I still think they'll entertain trading Hanley over Uggla. I know I'm crazy but I just have a feeling. Defensive improvements? One of them has to go.

 

 

Matt D at 3rd and LoMo at 1st will improve the defense substantially, Hanley can again be the Hanley of 2009 in the field, and I'll accept Uggs defense at 2nd given his bat as I don't see all that much difference now between him and Utley given how both are performing in the field and at the plate (Utley is no gold glover to be sure) and I bet no one in Phily is talking of trading Utley.

At some point you have to stop holding on to your prospects for "the future" if you ever want to "win now." There are major holes on this team that need addressed this offseason, and you can't expect to address them simply by trading our odds and ends.

 

1. Bullpen

2. Catcher

3. Defense

4. Upgrade the Starting Rotation

 

As I stated in the shopping list thread, Logan Morrison is our best trade chip, and should be dangled this winter IMO. I think Logan could go a long way towards acquiring a legit #2 pitcher, rather than having to rely on Anibal or Ricky having a good year. Not only would the #2 starter upgrade our rotation, but ideally, it would help the bullpen by giving them an extra inning or two off every five days. Also, assuming Anibal and Ricky are the #3 and #4, that leaves two of Volstad, West, and Sanabia to potentially help in the pen if needed.

 

Swing Leo in some type of deal for a catcher, spend a little money on Trevor Hoffman, allowing Hensley to take over Leo's setup role, and you've shored up pretty much everything except the defense. I also stated previously that I don't believe that can be fixed without massive roster turnover, and the main culprits are those guys whose offense we can't live without.

 

 

A big hell no to Trevor Hoffman. The rest I can agree with.

2) got an OBP about as high as Jason Heyward. I have no doubt the Marlins look at that, along with some of his other numbers, and realize he's just as untradeable as Mike Stanton.

 

 

 

 

Morrison is not as untradeable as Mike Stanton. I like Morrison and what he brings to this team as much as anyone else, but their respective values aren't even close. Mike Stanton seriously has the chance to become the next greatest player baseball has ever seen. He is that good.

I love LoMo as much as the next guy, but with his lack of HR power, he'll probably never be a dominant First Baseman in this league.

At least average? Almost definitely.

Above average? Pretty good chance.

Elite? Doubtful.

 

I think we'd be crazy not to trade him for Hellickson in a heartbeat (unless Hellickson has durability issues or something else I can't tell from his numbers).

People keep forgetting the first 4 months of the season, where Leo was a pretty dominant closer.

 

 

The season didn't end at 4 months.

 

A 27 year old reliever with a 3.46 ERA/1.28 WHIP, 30 saves/5 holds, averaging over a K per inning, with good GB rates, and all-around nice peripherals this year is worth something in a trade. Not a great player, but possibly someone who could help the team next year.

 

Leo's trade value isn't bad.

2) got an OBP about as high as Jason Heyward. I have no doubt the Marlins look at that, along with some of his other numbers, and realize he's just as untradeable as Mike Stanton.

 

 

 

 

Morrison is not as untradeable as Mike Stanton. I like Morrison and what he brings to this team as much as anyone else, but their respective values aren't even close. Mike Stanton seriously has the chance to become the next greatest player baseball has ever seen. He is that good.

 

The guy getting on base more than anybody in the league is just as important as the guy hitting more home runs than anybody in the league. Somebody needs to be on base when Mike hits one out, and Logan is usually on at least 1st base when it happens.

Marlins don't have so many bullpen arms that they can afford to give away Nunez.

 

Give him a good cutter/slider and he'll be fine.

 

Number two starters are expensive and the Marlins won't pay the going salary for a veteran and Gaby et al won't fetch a young cheap one.

 

Marlins have two pitchers who did very well at AA this year plus Sanabia and West and Volstad. They will have to find their starters from that mix.

 

Maybin acts like a star but plays like a AAA player. If he gets any time at all next year, it won't be much. I wonder if Coghlan can learn to play center.

Gaby, Leo and a B type prospect (heck, even Maybin) can bring back a #2. This LoMo trade bait talk is off the reservation. I now see LoMo as a John Olerud type with an above average glove at 1st. He will stay a Fish for a long time.

2) got an OBP about as high as Jason Heyward. I have no doubt the Marlins look at that, along with some of his other numbers, and realize he's just as untradeable as Mike Stanton.

 

 

 

 

Morrison is not as untradeable as Mike Stanton. I like Morrison and what he brings to this team as much as anyone else, but their respective values aren't even close. Mike Stanton seriously has the chance to become the next greatest player baseball has ever seen. He is that good.

 

The guy getting on base more than anybody in the league is just as important as the guy hitting more home runs than anybody in the league. Somebody needs to be on base when Mike hits one out, and Logan is usually on at least 1st base when it happens.

 

 

A high on-base percentage isn't everything.

 

Morrison is great at getting on-base. Stanton is great at everything. This isn't really some Mike Stanton joke; fact is, at the age of 20, he already showed what he can do up here. The guy has GREAT power, and one can't underestimate that he is GREAT, defensively (at least he was this year). Once he gets more time in the big leagues, Stanton's .OBP will get better, as well.

 

Morrison's a good prospect to have, but he's not untouchable, especially if you can get similar value for him in a trade, in an area of need.

Marlins don't have so many bullpen arms that they can afford to give away Nunez.

 

Give him a good cutter/slider and he'll be fine.

 

Number two starters are expensive and the Marlins won't pay the going salary for a veteran and Gaby et al won't fetch a young cheap one.

 

Marlins have two pitchers who did very well at AA this year plus Sanabia and West and Volstad. They will have to find their starters from that mix.

 

Maybin acts like a star but plays like a AAA player. If he gets any time at all next year, it won't be much. I wonder if Coghlan can learn to play center.

 

 

 

 

 

Then we didn't we just give it to him earlier?

 

Yeah, right, just give it to him.

Marlins don't have so many bullpen arms that they can afford to give away Nunez.

 

Give him a good cutter/slider and he'll be fine.

 

Number two starters are expensive and the Marlins won't pay the going salary for a veteran and Gaby et al won't fetch a young cheap one.

 

Marlins have two pitchers who did very well at AA this year plus Sanabia and West and Volstad. They will have to find their starters from that mix.

 

Maybin acts like a star but plays like a AAA player. If he gets any time at all next year, it won't be much. I wonder if Coghlan can learn to play center.

 

 

 

 

 

Leo is getting too expensive for the Marlins expected payroll next year.

 

Coghlan can't learn how to play center, considering he isn't even good in LF. A statistically, horrible LF'er = someone you never want to see play CF.

Gaby, Leo and a B type prospect (heck, even Maybin) can bring back a #2.

 

 

That's not true. Quantity doesn't = quality.

Sorry, but I'm with Dim on this one about LoMo. Everyone always complains that we live and die by the homerun and finally we have some guys (Coghlan, LoMo) who can constantly get on base at the top of the order and set the table for the power hitters. We had that back in 2003. The only thing that's missing is the speed.

 

LoMo is going nowhere. The power will develop eventually. Look at his XBH numbers in his limited play time. Unless we are trading for a Roy Halladay, LoMo stays.

Sorry, but I'm with Dim on this one about LoMo. Everyone always complains that we live and die by the homerun and finally we have some guys (Coghlan, LoMo) who can constantly get on base at the top of the order and set the table for the power hitters. We had that back in 2003. The only thing that's missing is the speed.

 

LoMo is going nowhere. The power will develop eventually. Look at his XBH numbers in his limited play time. Unless we are trading for a Roy Halladay, LoMo stays.

 

 

Whoever has a problem with living and dying by the HR just has a problem. A HR is the best possible thing a player can do when he steps in for his plate apperance.

 

Mike Stanton's are more valuable than Logan Morrison's.

 

If you think a player like Logan Morrison is worth a guy the caliber of Roy Halladay in return (or, I guess a better comparison of a younger ace, possibly on the trade market...Zack Grienke), then you are just overrating Logan Morrison.

Sorry, but I'm with Dim on this one about LoMo. Everyone always complains that we live and die by the homerun and finally we have some guys (Coghlan, LoMo) who can constantly get on base at the top of the order and set the table for the power hitters. We had that back in 2003. The only thing that's missing is the speed.

 

LoMo is going nowhere. The power will develop eventually. Look at his XBH numbers in his limited play time. Unless we are trading for a Roy Halladay, LoMo stays.

 

 

Whoever has a problem with living and dying by the HR just has a problem. A HR is the best possible thing a player can do when he steps in for his plate apperance.

 

Mike Stanton's are more valuable than Logan Morrison's.

 

If you think a player like Logan Morrison is worth a guy the caliber of Roy Halladay in return (or, I guess a better comparison of a younger ace, possibly on the trade market...Zack Grienke), then you are just overrating Logan Morrison.

 

HRs are fantastic. Especially Stanton HRs. But I would love to have some guys on the team that can score runs without the long ball, which is part of a successful offense unless you have an entire lineup filled with guys who can hit 40 HRs. I'm not saying that Morrison would net us a Halladay. I'm just really hesitant to trade a guy who has shown that he can get on base at a high rate consistently at both the minor and major league level.

 

A guy like Stanton is more valuable than a guy like Morrison, but I think having both is what makes a lineup really great.

I don't thing we will trade any of our young guys. They are too inexpensive. They will gladly keep them for a few years.

 

Morrison will stay in LF, Gaby will stay at 1B. If we can't resign Uggla, then Cogs will play second. If Uggla stays (I have a feeling he will), Cogs may play 3B or may even compete with Maybin for CF.

The only important trade I see happening is Uggla if we can't resign him.

 

Dominguez will be given a shot at 3B in spring training.

 

What we need is a good catcher, a decent bullpen and one premium left handed starter.

But everybody knows that. The question is: How much is the team willing to spend?

 

I can take only one more season of a payroll in the 40 million range. After that, in 2012, if we don't have a playoff quality team, spending whatever is required, I can honestly say I will probably stop giving a damn.