Das Texan Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I wonder what Bud Black thinks of this shit show. his rejecting any offers by the Marlins should speak volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 A business owner can do that. They pay themselves a bonus and done. Loria actually isn't employed by the marlins from what I remember. He has a consulting company and pays it a couple mil a year and draws income from there. He probably also has to file a k-1. Typically a business owner will reinvest profits into a growing business because the return there will be greater than other vehicles, plus they have direct control over the business/believe in their product/service. They may also be paying down debt. Who knows. It's a business and Loria isn't the only owner. Who knows what deals were made before the ballpark was built. Remember the marlins did put up capital. They had to raise it somehow. they have raised plenty over the years with revenue sharing, national media rights, et al. given such a low payroll over the years, my guess is that all the money the marlins put up was in the coffers long before they actually 'put it up' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 pitching is expensive. it is what it is, and the marlins being abject failures at acquiring good cost controlled pitching is going to bite them in the ass. their options for contending next year: 1) spend real money on pitching 2) pray that the pitching you have magically takes the needed 2-3 steps forward all together in 2016 3) put on the facade that you are trying, but in reality have zero intention of competing My money is on #3, though I'm sure #2 is the plan in some weird way for this organization. Wei-Yin Chen will be the worst signing of the offseason if a team actually gives him 5/100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Wei-Yin Chen will be the worst signing of the offseason if a team actually gives him 5/100. some team will give him near that. he would be the Marlins #2 starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Cliff Lee is only looking for a one year deal. Probably a waste of money because the Marlins won't be competing in 2016? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Wei-Yin Chen will be the worst signing of the offseason if a team actually gives him 5/100. he's not gonna get zimmmmmmmmerrrrrmannnn type money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada-marlin24 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I would give Kennedy $13-14 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I would give Kennedy $13-14 million. a lot of teams would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I would give Kennedy $13-14 million. Does this mean you have a spare $13 - 14 million lying around? Can you please donate it to the Marlins so they can add it to payroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 very unlikely esp since doyers want him so bad doesn't the doyers always can't got what they want this off-season!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaiwanMarlins Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 I think even Admin and SilverBullet were difficult to defend Loria in this off-season,the most frustrated part was our major rival opponents Mets and Nats(maybe Braves and Phillis would better than us if we do nothing!)keep adding pieces to upgrade their roster,and for the price of pitchers,we think everyone was not worth what they asking was due to we are cheap,if we keep passing the pitchers we think expensive than other teams will keep signing them and we will keep GOT NOTHING !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 We bad news bear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Cliff Lee is only looking for a one year deal. Probably a waste of money because the Marlins won't be competing in 2016? Assuming they don't trade anyone to create a hole, if they get a real # 3 SP (Kennedy, Kazmir, etc.), take a flyer on some SP like a Lee/Lincecum/G. Floyd/whoever who turns out to be OK, Koehler remains an adequate 4/5, and someone from Cosart/Nicolino/Conley/Urena turns into at least a # 4 SP, I think they have a real shot at contending. That sounds like a lot typing it out, but it's really not. A veteran 3, Koehler, and two of the kids/veteran will probably work out and not embarrass themselves. That's all they really need to do. Not embarrass themselves and be relatively average to get by in the rotation. This team is set up to live and die with Fernandez, Stanton, Yelich, and Gordon, and getting solid contributions from Prado, Ozuna, Hech, Realmuto, and the bullpen. The SP just needs to not completely tank. I think the offense, Fernandez, and the bullpen will be fine. Assuming health and they get the above SP contributions, I think this is a contending team into July and they can go out and get whatever they need if need be. The farm is relatively bare, but you'd hope in a contending scenario, they could turn Kolek/Garcia, INT $, balance draft pick (they'll be getting another one), and some other secondary non-Naylor prospects into 1-2 more good impact players to put them over the top. The sky isn't falling despite the offseason so far, but they need to sign 300-400 IP and someone to help out Bour against lefties which isn't that big of a deal. We'll see what they do. I'm not holding my breath, but they need to open the wallet and get two SP and let Benedict do his thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vince0926 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Assuming they don't trade anyone to create a hole, if they get a real # 3 SP (Kennedy, Kazmir, etc.), take a flyer on some SP like a Lee/Lincecum/G. Floyd/whoever who turns out to be OK, Koehler remains an adequate 4/5, and someone from Cosart/Nicolino/Conley/Urena turns into at least a # 4 SP, I think they have a real shot at contending. That sounds like a lot typing it out, but it's really not. A veteran 3, Koehler, and two of the kids/veteran will probably work out and not embarrass themselves. That's all they really need to do. Not embarrass themselves and be relatively average to get by in the rotation. This team is set up to live and die with Fernandez, Stanton, Yelich, and Gordon, and getting solid contributions from Prado, Ozuna, Hech, Realmuto, and the bullpen. The SP just needs to not completely tank. I think the offense, Fernandez, and the bullpen will be fine. Assuming health and they get the above SP contributions, I think this is a contending team into July and they can go out and get whatever they need if need be. The farm is relatively bare, but you'd hope in a contending scenario, they could turn Kolek/Garcia, INT $, balance draft pick (they'll be getting another one), and some other secondary non-Naylor prospects into 1-2 more good impact players to put them over the top. The sky isn't falling despite the offseason so far, but they need to sign 300-400 IP and someone to help out Bour against lefties which isn't that big of a deal. We'll see what they do. I'm not holding my breath, but they need to open the wallet and get two SP and let Benedict do his thing. Good response but when you mention "take a flyer on" and "real shot at contending", then it can be an issue. Its tough man, we snag guys that have won on other teams and nothing works here. We gotta find the right combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureGM Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I will be very surprised if they pony up money for an actual #2 starter. Remember that last offseason Loria seemed to be doing anything possible to not take on money but still trade for starting pitching, and all that did was deplete the farm and none of those guys are even here anymore. Unless you trade Ozuna, you're going to have to pay for a FA starter. But judging from what Samson has said, I have a feeling that they are just going to find some cheap reclamation projects to fill out the bottom of the rotation, and see what that grouping of Koehler/Cosart/Hand/Urena/etc does this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I will be very surprised if they pony up money for an actual #2 starter. Remember that last offseason Loria seemed to be doing anything possible to not take on money but still trade for starting pitching, and all that did was deplete the farm and none of those guys are even here anymore. Unless you trade Ozuna, you're going to have to pay for a FA starter. But judging from what Samson has said, I have a feeling that they are just going to find some cheap reclamation projects to fill out the bottom of the rotation, and see what that grouping of Koehler/Cosart/Hand/Urena/etc does this season. There are no # 2 SP left, and the only trade assets that can get one is pretty much Yelich which isn't happening. That ship has sailed. They pretty much have to land Kennedy, Chen, Kazmir, maybe Maeda (not a Gallardo fan) at this point to get a solid # 3. If they don't get one of those 4 (or 5 I guess wth Gallardo), dumpster fire offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Assuming they don't trade anyone to create a hole, if they get a real # 3 SP (Kennedy, Kazmir, etc.), take a flyer on some SP like a Lee/Lincecum/G. Floyd/whoever who turns out to be OK, Koehler remains an adequate 4/5, and someone from Cosart/Nicolino/Conley/Urena turns into at least a # 4 SP, I think they have a real shot at contending. That sounds like a lot typing it out, but it's really not. A veteran 3, Koehler, and two of the kids/veteran will probably work out and not embarrass themselves. That's all they really need to do. Not embarrass themselves and be relatively average to get by in the rotation. This team is set up to live and die with Fernandez, Stanton, Yelich, and Gordon, and getting solid contributions from Prado, Ozuna, Hech, Realmuto, and the bullpen. The SP just needs to not completely tank. I think the offense, Fernandez, and the bullpen will be fine. Assuming health and they get the above SP contributions, I think this is a contending team into July and they can go out and get whatever they need if need be. The farm is relatively bare, but you'd hope in a contending scenario, they could turn Kolek/Garcia, INT $, balance draft pick (they'll be getting another one), and some other secondary non-Naylor prospects into 1-2 more good impact players to put them over the top. The sky isn't falling despite the offseason so far, but they need to sign 300-400 IP and someone to help out Bour against lefties which isn't that big of a deal. We'll see what they do. I'm not holding my breath, but they need to open the wallet and get two SP and let Benedict do his thing. I think this is a tad bit too optimistic. Too many "ifs" in the scenario and depends on guys like Gordon not regressing and someone like Stanton remaining healthy. Is Kennedy even a legit #3? He posted a 4.24 ERA last season which is also his average ERA from 2013-2015. I'm a tad bit more optimistic about Kazmir, but even if they get him and Cliff Lee, a lot of the arms need to be exceeding expectations for the team to be a legit contender. Not saying it's impossible, but I wouldn't say they have a real shot. I think any pitching upgrades that the Marlins are likely to make at this point will situate them in the 81-84 win range at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Kazmir aint coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Kazmir aint coming Then the Marlins aren't going to acquire any pitching this offseason that will have substantive impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Then the Marlins aren't going to acquire any pitching this offseason that will have substantive impact. i think that has been pretty obvious considering the propoganda campaign they've launched to defend their current batch of "#3 SPs". On Kennedy, check out his last 100 ip last year. Considering his arsenal and peripherals in general I think there's a very good shot he makes a very nice ACTUAL #3 esp with this team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 The talent gap between the Mets (even with their disastrous dumpster fire of an offseason) and Nationals and the Marlins isnt something thats getting solved by adding a Kazmir/Kennedy, et al. They still wouldn't have a #2 pitcher, which due to them sitting on their collective asses, hasnt happened yet. Though there is still the trades of Reyes and Buehrle that has rubbed free agents raw, to where Marlins have to substantially overpay to get a free agent thats not a South Florida native/resident or a reclamation project. Sadly, the front office doesnt get that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dim Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 The Marlins haven't gotten anybody because the market rate is so much higher than it has ever been. Guys who would've gotten $8-10 million a year just a few years ago are getting $15 million a year and more. Guys like Samardzija are getting far more money than they deserve because teams are willing to spend more. The Marlins are being incredibly hesitant to really enter the market because of this, and that makes me believe they are going to leave this offseason with somebody like Cliff Lee. One year deals that don't have any long term risk and are for players looking to rebound or are getting up in age. In the past I wouldn't be complaining about the Marlins not entering this free agency. So many pitchers are getting paid far more than their numbers warrant. However, the Marlins haven't drafted well, don't have the trade pieces to get a pitcher from another team, and have given away the potential young pitchers they did have for short term options (Prado, Latos) or players who serve other needs (Gordon). These decisions have left the Marlins with two options this offseason. Spend on one of those pitchers getting higher than their worth and hope they grow into a potential #2 starter, or stay pat with the mediocrity we have and win 70 games next year. I feel they've made their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 It's frustrating that the Fish aren't spending in free agency but considering the money handed out I don't know if I entirely blame them. I want us to improve but I'd scared to waste the money being thrown out there now. We aren't the team that can just throw money away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureGM Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 OK but they have no other options, as previously mentioned. This team last year was not good enough, but they seem content to just throw the same pitching staff out there for another season minus Latos/Haren/Alvarez. So it's hard to get interested in a team that seems fine standing pat despite obvious glaring needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I dont get it. You have to acquire pitching either from player development/trades or from free agency. The Marlins have basically nothing in column A, so they have to participate in column B. People seem to forget that baseball is a 9.5 billion dollar industry. National rights deals are rising by the year. This whole, we are impoverished bullshit is just that. You cannot operate in a 2010 MLB world and financial mindset in 2016. You will fail completely, and if you think that way you are destined to be a terrible team. Fact. Loria is by no way losing money. Fact 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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