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Craig Mish defends the Yelich trade


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That’s not a revelation.  I think a lot of supporters of the trades were saying that and noting the team had a losing record for years with the players traded away (and as an aside with Jose Fernandez).  The counter argument was his age and his contract and his clear ability.  

 

People are going to go crazy continuing to relitigate last off-season. 

 

Mish had a panel of writers on his podcast that was recorded yesterday.  Frisaro pointed to 2020 as the target year to   “compete for a playoff spot”.   I think we need to consider what that comment implies.  Lots of teams are competing for playoff spots that ultimately have their season fall apart late but they can still say they competed.  Pittsburgh is a good example. They made aggressive trades at the deadline because they were competing for a playoff spot.  They finished with 82 wins.  Same with the Phillies.  80 wins for them.  If the Marlins are in that tier in 2020 that’s fine but that can’t be their ceiling.  That needs to be a stop along to way towards an org that strings together multiple years of playoff appearances.  We’ve already been the 80 win team that was sort of in it in August. If in two years we’ve won 80 games I cringe at the ensuing disagreements between the fan factions over whether or not this was all worth it 

 

 

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I reject the notion that the Marlins were going to lose 90 games with or without the group from last year.  How can that be said definitively?   Look at Yelich - he is just coming into his own this year.  I keep hearing people say again and again that the Marlins "lost with these same players".  But players get better - look at Yelich.

 

Here's what happened, and it's pretty clear to me.  The new ownership group looked at Yelich's season last year, which was disappointing.  And they gambled that it reflected the player he was.  They lost on that bet b/c he is clearly much better than that.  And, if the Brewers were looking to trade him this offseason, he would command a much higher price than the Marlins got for him.  I don't see how this trade can be defended, knowing what we know now.

 

 

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I reject the notion that the Marlins were going to lose 90 games with or without the group from last year.  How can that be said definitively?   Look at Yelich - he is just coming into his own this year.  I keep hearing people say again and again that the Marlins "lost with these same players".  But players get better - look at Yelich.

 

Here's what happened, and it's pretty clear to me.  The new ownership group looked at Yelich's season last year, which was disappointing.  And they gambled that it reflected the player he was.  They lost on that bet b/c he is clearly much better than that.  And, if the Brewers were looking to trade him this offseason, he would command a much higher price than the Marlins got for him.  I don't see how this trade can be defended, knowing what we know now.

 

I think it was said under the thought of keeping Yelich but still losing Stanton Ozuna and Gordon so basically saying that the 2018 team with Yelich over Brinson but the rest still the same probably would have still been a last place team. Or basically that Yelich couldn't have carried the team alone. 

 

 

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I don't see how this trade can be defended, knowing what we know now.

 

Here's the thing about this statement... you can't defend a trade from last offseason only with what we know now. You have to defend it based on what was known at the time of the trade and I believe that's what Mish is doing here. He's finding out more about then not about now.

 

It's very easy now to judge this trade based on the seasons that both Yelich and Brinson just had but that's not how this works.

 

You could not have traded Yelich before the 2018 season based on "Oh he's probably gonna be the 2018 NL MVP and Brinson is gonna suck all year long." You could only trade them based on what both guys did in 2017 and before that.

 

 

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Here's the thing about this statement... you can't defend a trade from last offseason only with what we know now. You have to defend it based on what was known at the time of the trade and I believe that's what Mish is doing here. He's finding out more about then not about now.

 

It's very easy now to judge this trade based on the seasons that both Yelich and Brinson just had but that's not how this works.

 

You could not have traded Yelich before the 2018 season based on "Oh he's probably gonna be the 2018 NL MVP and Brinson is gonna suck all year long." You could only trade them based on what both guys did in 2017 and before that.

 

This trade was bad knowing what we knew then also.  It was Jeter in trade mode and everyone implying  Yelich would be a clubhouse cancer (unlikely).  It was a trade that would be available now and next year but with Yeli's contract, deserved a return of at least one player that was almost a certain top player.  Brinson graded out well, but not great, and adding in his age, and the others had flaws that were and still are concerns.  Hard to use the argument that we weren't going to win, because that fits 80% of the teams in baseball.  But that is a different discussion, how the sport is reaching a methodology that to be a competitive, quality franchise is not worth it anymore.  Either you win it all, or losing 100-110 games or 82 games is the same thing and no one should thus care if the product is good or utterly a sham.  Professionalism, tickets costs etc-the sport will suffer because viewership will suffer, at the park and media, if the product is terrible because no one is trying to be good unless they think they are good enough to win it all.

 

OH yea, on topic I think the trade was a bad trade and especially given the reasons the front office gave.  

 

 

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Here's the thing about this statement... you can't defend a trade from last offseason only with what we know now. You have to defend it based on what was known at the time of the trade and I believe that's what Mish is doing here. He's finding out more about then not about now.

 

It's very easy now to judge this trade based on the seasons that both Yelich and Brinson just had but that's not how this works.

 

You could not have traded Yelich before the 2018 season based on "Oh he's probably gonna be the 2018 NL MVP and Brinson is gonna suck all year long." You could only trade them based on what both guys did in 2017 and before that.

 

You judge a trade by looking at the results of the players who were traded.  The notoriously bad trades in baseball are guys who turned out to be hall of famers being traded for nobodies.  The "we thought he might be a clubhouse cancer" excuse is not a good excuse if the performance on the field shows you got taken to the cleaners.

 

Really, I think Jeter was smitten with the "tear it down" approach that Dave Hyde and most on this board espouse - which is trade everybody worth trading for whatever you can get, be prepared to absolutely suck for several years, and hope it all works out in the end.

 

 

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You judge a trade by looking at the results of the players who were traded.  The notoriously bad trades in baseball are guys who turned out to be hall of famers being traded for nobodies.  The "we thought he might be a clubhouse cancer" excuse is not a good excuse if the performance on the field shows you got taken to the cleaners.

 

Really, I think Jeter was smitten with the "tear it down" approach that Dave Hyde and most on this board espouse - which is trade everybody worth trading for whatever you can get, be prepared to absolutely suck for several years, and hope it all works out in the end.

 

Right you look at results. We have seen one year of each guy and only one at a major league level. Definitely too early to judge whether the marlins or brewers won the trade. On a one year level then yes brewers won. But long term no one knows yet. Monte could be an all star. Isan is looking like our 2nd baseman of the future. Yamamoto looked very good when he pitched this year. Brinson struggled but the talent and tools are definitely still there. Don’t say brewers won this trade just because of yelich’s basically second half. 

 

 

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That’s not a revelation.  I think a lot of supporters of the trades were saying that and noting the team had a losing record for years with the players traded away (and as an aside with Jose Fernandez).  The counter argument was his age and his contract and his clear ability.  

 

People are going to go crazy continuing to relitigate last off-season. 

 

Mish had a panel of writers on his podcast that was recorded yesterday.  Frisaro pointed to 2020 as the target year to   “compete for a playoff spot”.   I think we need to consider what that comment implies.  Lots of teams are competing for playoff spots that ultimately have their season fall apart late but they can still say they competed.  Pittsburgh is a good example. They made aggressive trades at the deadline because they were competing for a playoff spot.  They finished with 82 wins.  Same with the Phillies.  80 wins for them.  If the Marlins are in that tier in 2020 that’s fine but that can’t be their ceiling.  That needs to be a stop along to way towards an org that strings together multiple years of playoff appearances.  We’ve already been the 80 win team that was sort of in it in August. If in two years we’ve won 80 games I cringe at the ensuing disagreements between the fan factions over whether or not this was all worth it 

 

If Marlins fans get upset over an 80-win season two years from now, then they are missing the big picture. I am honestly not expecting this team to compete for a playoff spot until 2021 at the earliest, and even that's being generous. We are basically starting with bare bones. The offense has nothing outside of J.T. Realmuto and Brian Anderson (and who knows if Realmuto will even be back next year), our ace is currently Jose Urena and our farm system has little to no depth.

 

Right now, Realmuto, Anderson, Caleb Smith and Trevor Richards are really the only guys on this roster I am even mildly excited about, and one of those guys might get traded and the other is coming off season-ending surgery. I guess Tayron Guerrero is cool because he throws hard, but that means nothing if he can't get the ball over the plate. As far as Lewis Brinson? I loved getting him back in the Yelich deal and I still have hope for him, but he had a historically bad season. He has A LOT of work to do.

 

As for the Yelich deal itself? I understand it, as we had already dealt Stanton and Ozuna at the time and we actually got a pretty damn good return for Yelich. Did we have to do it? Well, no, because Yelich was only 26 and on a cheap deal, but at the same time, Jeter knew he needed to begin restocking the farm system and clearing money to begin the new regime.

 

All in all, this is going to be a process, and likely a long, painful one at that, but we need to give Jeter a chance.

 

 

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I think that as of right now, it hurts to see Yelich improve his game even more. However, there is a considerable amount of talent in the players the Marlins received and it even just 2 pan out the way they are supposed to, it could be a great trade. All 4 have significant potential. 

 

This is your most positive post ever. Welcome aboard. Your Positivity Patrol Pamphlet is on the way!

 

 

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Yelich said in the past he didn't want to be in Miami and he hated it here. That was said to radio hosts on 790 and referenced in one of 5ReasonSports first podcasts.

 

Seeing how he "put it together" in Milwaukee without a change in physical appearance, he had a change in demenor and he became a bad man. Pretty much everything anyone ever said his ceiling was- he's become. 

 

I don't believe even his batting stance has changed. He just hated it here, and the new situation is bringing out the best in him.

 

Wish we could have gotten a motivated Yelich for the last few years, maybe we could have been the Yankees of the NL in regards to power.

 

All things equal though, we got what we could for him... no matter what happens people will look at the player he's become, not the one we traded away (20 + HR, 70+ RBI, .300 BA)

 

 

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Yelich said in the past he didn't want to be in Miami and he hated it here. That was said to radio hosts on 790 and referenced in one of 5ReasonSports first podcasts.

 

Seeing how he "put it together" in Milwaukee without a change in physical appearance, he had a change in demenor and he became a bad man. Pretty much everything anyone ever said his ceiling was- he's become. 

 

I don't believe even his batting stance has changed. He just hated it here, and the new situation is bringing out the best in him.

 

Wish we could have gotten a motivated Yelich for the last few years, maybe we could have been the Yankees of the NL in regards to power.

 

All things equal though, we got what we could for him... no matter what happens people will look at the player he's become, not the one we traded away (20 + HR, 70+ RBI, .300 BA)

 

Sarcasm?

 

 

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Yelich didn't hate Miami. He's playing better this year because he's more motivated on a playoff team in front of bigger crowds but it's not like he didn't play well here either and he suddenly just got good because he's happy to leave here. I'm sure he's happier in his current situation but that doesn't mean he didn't like playing for the Marlins.

 

 

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Yelich didn't hate Miami. He's playing better this year because he's more motivated on a playoff team in front of bigger crowds but it's not like he didn't play well here either and he suddenly just got good because he's happy to leave here. I'm sure he's happier in his current situation but that doesn't mean he didn't like playing for the Marlins.

 

I just know he thinks this rebuilding team just not deserve to have him in the lineup because he just didn't want to waste any second of his career in this team anymore,you know what ? what we need to do now was to defeat his team every time.

 

 

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That’s not a revelation.  I think a lot of supporters of the trades were saying that and noting the team had a losing record for years with the players traded away (and as an aside with Jose Fernandez).  The counter argument was his age and his contract and his clear ability.  

 

People are going to go crazy continuing to relitigate last off-season. 

 

Mish had a panel of writers on his podcast that was recorded yesterday.  Frisaro pointed to 2020 as the target year to   “compete for a playoff spot”.   I think we need to consider what that comment implies.  Lots of teams are competing for playoff spots that ultimately have their season fall apart late but they can still say they competed.  Pittsburgh is a good example. They made aggressive trades at the deadline because they were competing for a playoff spot.  They finished with 82 wins.  Same with the Phillies.  80 wins for them.  If the Marlins are in that tier in 2020 that’s fine but that can’t be their ceiling.  That needs to be a stop along to way towards an org that strings together multiple years of playoff appearances.  We’ve already been the 80 win team that was sort of in it in August. If in two years we’ve won 80 games I cringe at the ensuing disagreements between the fan factions over whether or not this was all worth it 

 

None of the Pirates moves were 2018 moves.

 

 

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Yelich said in the past he didn't want to be in Miami and he hated it here. That was said to radio hosts on 790 and referenced in one of 5ReasonSports first podcasts.

 

Seeing how he "put it together" in Milwaukee without a change in physical appearance, he had a change in demenor and he became a bad man. Pretty much everything anyone ever said his ceiling was- he's become. 

 

I don't believe even his batting stance has changed. He just hated it here, and the new situation is bringing out the best in him.

 

Wish we could have gotten a motivated Yelich for the last few years, maybe we could have been the Yankees of the NL in regards to power.

 

All things equal though, we got what we could for him... no matter what happens people will look at the player he's become, not the one we traded away (20 + HR, 70+ RBI, .300 BA)

 

Yelich is also just now entering his prime and has a body that is more filled out.

 

He was more 'gangly' before, has filled out and while you cannot see a change in physical appearance its pretty obvious he has become more 'solid' more muscular et al.  

 

It could never just be a 'player has just had his game fully mature and added that power to his game' as he enters his prime no?  

 

Never!

 

 

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None of the Pirates moves were 2018 moves.

 

https://rumbunter.com/2018/08/01/pittsburgh-pirates-show-commitment-winning-trade-deadline/

 

With the team in contention Pirate general manager Neal Huntington tackled the trade deadline in a way that many fans never thought he would. Huntington did not just add to the roster at the deadline, but he won the trade deadline.

 

No team made a bigger splash at the trade deadline than the Pirates did. To the credit of the front office, they rewarded the team for having entered the deadline winners in 15 of their previous 19 games by aggressively adding to the roster.

 

 

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