June 5, 20197 yr the MLB draft success rate is increasing every year, especially in earlier rounds. That’s fantastic. Means we should have an even better chance at getting a prospect at pick 10-15 than in previous years. Point still stands -> Success at the big league level for current building blocks (Diaz, Harrison, Harold, etc) >>>>>> a handful of positions in the draft order.
June 5, 20197 yr The "this team is 50 years away" crowd sure has quieted down the past few weeks. fine 49 years away
June 5, 20197 yr Depends. If they buy rentals or old players they are dumber than boxes of rocks and it truly is Loria 2.0. If they want to buy controlled pieces, different story. Just dont pull a Pirates (even cheaper ownership) and acquire a Chris Archer and then play the card of see we are acquiring talent (after trading away Cole for pennies in the winter prior) That Chris archer trade was shocking considering that it happened in 2018 and not 1998. I thought teams were across the board smarter than that now. Supposedly Glasgow had issues they weren’t equipped to fix. Of course TB fixes all pitchers. But to throw in Meadows on top of that. Wow.
June 5, 20197 yr That’s fantastic. Means we should have an even better chance at getting a prospect at pick 10-15 than in previous years. Point still stands -> Success at the big league level for current building blocks (Diaz, Harrison, Harold, etc) >>>>>> a handful of positions in the draft order. I mean a higher draft pick still means a greater chance of success and more importantly just a larger bonus pool to use. You are basically arguing that the MLB draft isnt that important and comparing it to the NFL and NBA draft. Those are both drafts designed to bring in players immediately. Though in the NBA some people talk about expanding the NBA draft and expanding the G league as a true minor league for teams, but beside the point. While the MLB draft isnt a draft designed to have players immediately contribute, the idea of it being a crap shoot, is decreasing by the day and you'll see the success rates of MLB draft players probably mirror those of NFL and NBA drafts in terms of contributing to their teams successes (just wont happen for 2-5 years depending on age at being picked)
June 5, 20197 yr the MLB draft success rate is increasing every year, especially in earlier rounds. I wonder if the slotting system that came out of the 2012 CBA had some impact there. Before you had players bonus demands affecting their draft position. There were cases where guys would go higher than they should have because they were “signable”. Obviously baseball ops departments across the board are doing a better job with more data than ever.
June 5, 20197 yr Author The Pirates give the Marlins a real run for their money as far as bone headed decisions.
June 5, 20197 yr I wonder if the slotting system that came out of the 2012 CBA had some impact there. Before you had players bonus demands affecting their draft position. There were cases where guys would go higher than they should have because they were “signable”. Obviously baseball ops departments across the board are doing a better job with more data than ever. Partially but its more the last point you raised. Scouting has become a lot better, data is being used more and scouts biggest jobs now are to see the things you cant see with data, as opposed to relying on scouts to do the entire thing.
June 5, 20197 yr The Pirates give the Marlins a real run for their money as far as bone headed decisions. Oh the Pirates were and always have been cheaper and more stupidly run than the Marlins. They just have more competent leadership in their front office historically.
June 5, 20197 yr 100% agree with this. That's two days in a week we agree, I am worried. I think it's basically, don't make the same mistake as last year when there was interest in the bullpen arms from contenders, and now probably won't be as much. If someone is willing to give a mid-level to slightly above mid-level prospect for, say, Conley [be shocking if that happened], the team absolutely needs to say yes. Unless that team is the Rays or Astros, then keep him and question what it might be that they say can be fixed and turning him elite. I’m going to go with ‘helps’ assuming that it’s a result of getting production from our “future core”. If the reason we are .500 is because of guys like Harold Ramirez, Andy, Alfaro, Diaz*, Harrison*, and the SP staff, this is a HUGE positive to the rebuild as we will be checking off boxes along the way. Regarding the draft picks, if this was the NFL that would be a concern. There are too many ways to acquire talent in baseball (International, trade deadline, Rule 5) for that to outweigh positives from guys already in the system Agreed on this. MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of all drafts. Just develop well with the players you have already, and whoever you draft, develop them well too. Obvs. ❤️ Depends. If they buy rentals or old players they are dumber than boxes of rocks and it truly is Loria 2.0. If they want to buy controlled pieces, different story. Just dont pull a Pirates (even cheaper ownership) and acquire a Chris Archer and then play the card of see we are acquiring talent (after trading away Cole for pennies in the winter prior) That Pirates trade, holy crap. Especially with how bad Archer has been for them. No idea what they were thinking, IMO Archer wasn't even that good the last couple years as it was. Overrated player and thinks he's a gift to MLB. And don't get me started on his hypocrisy. the MLB draft success rate is increasing every year, especially in earlier rounds. I was going to reply to this mentioning the analytics, but you pretty much already got around to it so we're in agreement there.
June 5, 20197 yr Honestly the Pirates ownership ran by a Michael Hill would be a bigger joke and disaster than when Loria owned the marlins.
June 5, 20197 yr Helps the rebuild no question. Right now it certainly feels like 2006 esque. Although that team had Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera along with some young sluggers in Dan Uggla, Mike Jacobs, Jeremy Hermida. They had more promise. What's important is that the Marlins front office doesn't jump the gun and do what they did in the 2014 off-season and start trading away prospects for short term fixes.
June 5, 20197 yr on a side note since the last time either Brinson or O'Brien received an actual at bat for the Marlins.... runs per game w/ Brinson and Pete: 2.75 without: 4.68 that is some serious addition by subtraction
June 6, 20197 yr on a side note since the last time either Brinson or O'Brien received an actual at bat for the Marlins.... runs per game w/ Brinson and Pete: 2.75 without: 4.68 that is some serious addition by subtraction Whats Brinson doing down in AAA anyway?
June 6, 20197 yr Whats Brinson doing down in AAA anyway? Doing well. I would expect him to return to Miami soon, though they may be hesitant to change the current lineup.
June 6, 20197 yr Doing well. I would expect him to return to Miami soon, though they may be hesitant to change the current lineup. So kinda like last time he was in AAA in 2017. Guarantee they dont bring his ass back when they are doing well. Barring an injury.
June 6, 20197 yr So kinda like last time he was in AAA in 2017. Guarantee they dont bring his ass back when they are doing well. Barring an injury. MATTINGLY ACCEPTS YOUR CHALLENGE...and immediately brings Brinson in to pitch with a 3-2 lead in the 8th OBrien has no business ever being on an MLB team again.
June 6, 20197 yr I agree it’s a positive since it lets you identify what needs to be fixed. You certainly do have to trade away veterans with upside. However someone said earlier to trade Guerrero and Anderson. I don’t see why you trade controllable arms. Urena and Conley sure, but part of a rebuild also includes rebuilding your bullpen. Guerrero at least shouldn’t be traded. Anderson maybe since he’s older.
June 6, 20197 yr I agree it’s a positive since it lets you identify what needs to be fixed. You certainly do have to trade away veterans with upside. However someone said earlier to trade Guerrero and Anderson. I don’t see why you trade controllable arms. Urena and Conley sure, but part of a rebuild also includes rebuilding your bullpen. Guerrero at least shouldn’t be traded. Anderson maybe since he’s older. Guerrero is 28. Not super young. The fact that he’s controllable should also increase the return value. He’s the best relief asset we have at the moment. I’m 100% on board with dealing him (relative to market value of course)
June 6, 20197 yr This question came up in another thread and I thought it was an excellent topic. No need to say "Don't bother it will never happen anyways"... if it did somehow happen, does the Marlins finishing at or close to .500 actually help or hurt the rebuild at this point? Baseball is so much different than the NFL and the NBA where the best talent drafted goes to the teams with the losing record … I understand Houston stockpiled talent by being a bottom dweller for so many years but in reality it is about franchises being able to scout talent and develop them properly...That is why the Dodgers and Yankees always have abundance of talent year in and year out You can find premier talent in the 20th round if you are able to develop it properly. The Marlins under Mike Hill , under Loria's ownership were absolutely the worse. Miami being Miami should have been a primal attraction to the Latin American talent and overseas talent but for some reason that pretty much totally ignored that market because of refusing to spend an extra buck here and there. I was happy they pursued Victor Victor although I am not convinced that he will ever be a star player in the Majors. I know Mike Hill is still around but it is more than obvious he is not making the decisions reference the draft anymore It doesn't matter if the Marlins are a sub .500 team or a .500...They are starting to develop their scouting. We surely will in 2 or 3 years know if the organization apparent turnaround is legit
June 6, 20197 yr I was happy they pursued Victor Victor although I am not convinced that he will ever be a star player in the Major Based on what, his rough season in A-ball this year? Did you think he'd be a star player before that? If so, it is way too early to think differently. If you never thought he'd be one, why?
June 6, 20197 yr Baseball is so much different than the NFL and the NBA where the best talent drafted goes to the teams with the losing record … I understand Houston stockpiled talent by being a bottom dweller for so many years but in reality it is about franchises being able to scout talent and develop them properly...That is why the Dodgers and Yankees always have abundance of talent year in and year out You can find premier talent in the 20th round if you are able to develop it properly. The Marlins under Mike Hill , under Loria's ownership were absolutely the worse. Miami being Miami should have been a primal attraction to the Latin American talent and overseas talent but for some reason that pretty much totally ignored that market because of refusing to spend an extra buck here and there. I was happy they pursued Victor Victor although I am not convinced that he will ever be a star player in the Majors. I know Mike Hill is still around but it is more than obvious he is not making the decisions reference the draft anymore It doesn't matter if the Marlins are a sub .500 team or a .500...They are starting to develop their scouting. We surely will in 2 or 3 years know if the organization apparent turnaround is legit You know as bad as the loria regime was. They did draft Stanton yelich fernandez luis Castillo paddack Moran. And I’m sure I’m missing a few. The problem was everytime we were near 500 we’d trade away the top prospects for some fringe player.
June 6, 20197 yr The problem was everytime we were near 500 we’d trade away the top prospects for some fringe player. Yep, so we just need to hope this regime is smarter when it comes to that
June 6, 20197 yr Based on what, his rough season in A-ball this year? Did you think he'd be a star player before that? If so, it is way too early to think differently. If you never thought he'd be one, why? I actually have not been paying attention to Victor Victor this season yet I am sure he will come around...I just looking at what he brings to the table tool-wise does not scream to me Super Star. There is no way to know but he will surely be a Major League Ball Player just not a top tier major leaguer. I think the Marlins feel the same way because they drafted Outfield talent heavily this year. I get the impression they know their Outfield talent is deficient or at least not up to their satisfaction
June 6, 20197 yr You know as bad as the loria regime was. They did draft Stanton yelich fernandez luis Castillo paddack Moran. And I’m sure I’m missing a few. The problem was everytime we were near 500 we’d trade away the top prospects for some fringe player. Just for clarification purpose Beinfest drafted Giancarlo and Yelich even though was drafted by Hill most of the legwork was most likely done under Beinfest. To which after that you can see a difference drafting style to which the Marlins seemed to be drafting the same players just with different names
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