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How good are the Marlins this year for real

Featured Replies

Realistically speaking what are our chances this year,  I am getting tired of all this loosing we find good players and then we trade them for prospects  that usually never amount to anything special.  We seem to always be in the wrong end of trades tired of this pattern.

 

what needs to be done to make us a real team and not the majors farm system. 
 

Just venting

Spend on good free agents and extend the good young players (like Sandy, do more of that).

None of it will matter if there is no CBA agreement though.

 

To answer the thread title specifically - the team as is probably tops out at 75 to 78 wins, and that's with some breakouts. Need to beef up the team via trades and free agency. Find a way to get to 90 wins.

Right now?

 

4th best in the NL East.

The Marlins need to spend both money and prospects in order to upgrade this team.  Read the Hot Stove topic for any numerous permutations or what they can/should do in order to make this a playoff contender.

 

Failure to do this will just prove they are not and will never be truly committed to winning.

And are cheaper and more miserly than Jeff Loria.

23 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Right now?

 

4th best in the NL East.

The Marlins need to spend both money and prospects in order to upgrade this team.  Read the Hot Stove topic for any numerous permutations or what they can/should do in order to make this a playoff contender.

 

Failure to do this will just prove they are not and will never be truly committed to winning.

And are cheaper and more miserly than Jeff Loria.

Pretty much spot on here.

 

19 hours ago, Michael said:

Spend on good free agents and extend the good young players (like Sandy, do more of that).

None of it will matter if there is no CBA agreement though.

 

To answer the thread title specifically - the team as is probably tops out at 75 to 78 wins, and that's with some breakouts. Need to beef up the team via trades and free agency. Find a way to get to 90 wins.

I think they'll get to around 78 wins without major breakouts. The pitching is going to be top 5-10 in the league if they do nothing, and they have solid starting position players across the board besides 1 glaring, horrible issue in CF. Major breakouts (Luzardo going all Rogers, Jazz turning into breakout Javy Baez production, Garcia finding his inner JD Martinez, etc.) will get them to or just over .500.

For me, they need to add around 5 more wins prior to the season, which gets them to June and then they can see if one of the kids turned a corner like Rogers/Sandy, Garcia/Cooper have their statcast batted ball breakout, etc. and what is needed to get over the top. They should do more, but I am setting reasonable expectations.

The easiest solution is getting two CF, so if one gets hurt, you're not screwed. Ketel Marte and Caleb Smith (+5 WAR) in a massive deal based on two of Meyer/Watson/Eury for one, and stop putzing around and take a swing on Marsh/Kelenic (+1.5 WAR, I believe they had growing pains and will be fine over 450+ PA), even if it costs Pablo (-3 WAR). Assuming they are able to dump Bass in one of the deals (the price of Pablo!), their payroll probably moves to just $70-72 million for this:

Stallings, Jackson/Fortes
Aguilar, Cooper
Jazz
Rojas, Wendle
Anderson
Sanchez, DLC
Ketel, Marsh/Kelenic
Garcia

Sandy, Rogers, Hernandez, Luzardo, Cabrera
Floro, Bender, Sixto, Pop, Head
Bleier, Ca. Smith, Okert

They need to add call it 2+ WAR to this, and there is PLENTY of payroll left to do lots of things. Upgrade Aguilar or Cooper for DH (Schwarber)? Sign Greinke/Cueto and kick someone to AAA? Sign Kenley Jansen to have a luxury reliever arm? All of this can be done for under $90m in 2022 Or just say F it and sign Correa/Bryant (+5 WAR) and ditch Aguilar (-1.5 WAR) for payroll and get pitching reinforcements in June as the team is just awesome adding either of those two and that staff above is still deep. Adding that to the moves above moves payroll to $95-100m.

Basically, everything is very positive for them right now, but they need to finish the job. Everyone should stop caring if they don't do it.

8 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I think they'll get to around 78 wins without major breakouts. The pitching is going to be top 5-10 in the league if they do nothing, and they have solid starting position players across the board besides 1 glaring, horrible issue in CF. Major breakouts (Luzardo going all Rogers, Jazz turning into breakout Javy Baez production, Garcia finding his inner JD Martinez, etc.) will get them to or just over .500.

I suppose I could see that as well, yes. The starters alone give us the opportunity of winning games scoring less than four runs so 78 with current squad as-is is certainly reasonable.

8 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

get pitching reinforcements in June

If the team is "in contention" (too early to say) in June, how willing would you be to bring up some of the starting prospects to pitch out of the bullpen? Say Zach Pop doesn't do well again, send him down and call up McCambley for example and have him be a bullpen ace for two-three innings every third night.

I think I'd be in favor of bringing up some of the starters that way and have them build up innings as relievers, then in 23, 24 have them move into the rotation, assuming a role needs to be filled there.

1 hour ago, Michael said:

If the team is "in contention" (too early to say) in June, how willing would you be to bring up some of the starting prospects to pitch out of the bullpen? Say Zach Pop doesn't do well again, send him down and call up McCambley for example and have him be a bullpen ace for two-three innings every third night.

I think I'd be in favor of bringing up some of the starters that way and have them build up innings as relievers, then in 23, 24 have them move into the rotation, assuming a role needs to be filled there.

First, I think they should put their best 13 arms on the MLB roster day 1. I don't care about any starter/reliever delineation, especially since nearly everyone on the team is going to have an innings cap. If this moves Cabrera and Sixto to the bullpen day 1 (with Luzardo and Elisier the 4/5 SP), so be it. Practically, that may be smarter anyways as both of those guys should probably only throw 125 innings next year, so I'd want them in the pen for 2-3 months before stretching them out to throw more innings later. I don't want the Marlins to turn into contenders and have to debate shutting guys down. That's a horrible situation with the arm depth they have right now. This plan is what the Twins did with Johan Santana (for two years!), and it makes sense for Cabrera and Sixto to ease them in. Cabrera wasn't exactly good last year, and Sixto is a huge unknown. Starting in the pen isn't an insult to them and ease them into being professionals. You know, like a good organization and not one that just plays cheap prospects constantly. 

Second, Pop is pretty good. He did well last year. He has had a lot of health problems and was a small success story last year coming back healthy and holding his own. I think they like him a lot, and I think he has some moderate upside to be a bullpen mainstay (especially at club controlled prices). Not sure why he's getting dinged here. He's definitely a top 8-12 arm in the organization right now, even if he wouldn't be top 15 in upside.

Third, McCambley isn't exactly a top prospect ace and I'd be surprised if the pitches any innings at the MLB level in 2022. Maybe you meant Meyer? Assuming there is some service time line/Super 2 status, I think they have so much pitching depth Meyer can come up after that line provided he is ready. He's the opposite of Cabrera and Sixto - they should let him start and if he's great, move him into a bulk reliever type for the Marlins in July/August. They can reassess what they have after the year. It's not a big deal to put these guys in the pen as long as they get their innings. For me, this is approximately 125 for Cabrera and Sixto, and you probably want Meyer getting closer to 140. It's a bit easier with Pablo/Luzardo/Elisier as they've been professionals longer and you can get them 160-170 if they can handle it, and then just baby Rogers "a little" so he still has some juice for a playoff run if needed. That's probably 170 regular season innings for him, assuming those 170 innings are moderate/low stress like last year and not a taxing amount of pitches. Sandy you let do whatever he can handle. He's a gem.

47 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Third, McCambley isn't exactly a top prospect ace and I'd be surprised if the pitches any innings at the MLB level in 2022. Maybe you meant Meyer?

You traded Meyer, so I couldn't use him 😄 

Outside of that - Pop was just who I went after, not knocking him specifically, simply an example. Could have been Bender regressing. I agree with best 13 arms (or 14 cause for whatever reason this team loved playing with a short bench last year).

23 hours ago, rmarlins said:

 

 

what needs to be done to make us a real team and not the majors farm system. 
 

 

Montreal 2.0

7 hours ago, Michael said:

Except in reverse, no Spring Training and there's a World Series.

wow sounds like a Mandela effect

  • 4 weeks later...
39 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

 

It pisses me off so bad that it’s always clueless idiots in this city like that receptionist who I’m sure knows nothing about the team that start with the shit talking.

Edited by marlinsmaniac

2 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

 

Is Peter Pratt privvy to some trade or acquisition that the Marlins are making to enable them to push for said NL East division title in 2022?

Given there is a lockout currently going on and all, seems curious.

Cause the team as its constructed now, is a 4th place team in the division. 

3 hours ago, Das Texan said:

Is Peter Pratt privvy to some trade or acquisition that the Marlins are making to enable them to push for said NL East division title in 2022?

Given there is a lockout currently going on and all, seems curious.

Cause the team as its constructed now, is a 4th place team in the division. 

Probably thinks Avisail will slug .980 or something ridiculous instead of realizing it's money down the drain that impacts their chance at signing a real bat

7 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

 

Well, I guess at least someone has confidence in the moves they've made/those moves are enough lol.

 

Also, an uptick is guaranteed given the early season attendance limitations last year, so I guess in a way he's right.

 

They're not going to push above the "same old same old" low attendance if they don't make more moves.

43 minutes ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Simple and clear, people would buy the tickets to see the best player …so, sign Correa.

I call bullshit on this. If the Marlins sign Correa they get an increase in April ticket sales but unless the team actually performs attendance is still shit. 

See: 2012, season. 

This fanbase is done with hype. There's been a lot of false hype over the last decade. Results or bust at this point. 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

I call bullshit on this. If the Marlins sign Correa they get an increase in April ticket sales but unless the team actually performs attendance is still shit. 

See: 2012, season. 

This fanbase is done with hype. There's been a lot of false hype over the last decade. Results or bust at this point. 

South Florida supports winning teams.  With this team's history, they have to prove that they'll do what it takes to win and win consistently.

1 hour ago, SilverBullet said:

I call bullshit on this. If the Marlins sign Correa they get an increase in April ticket sales but unless the team actually performs attendance is still shit. 

See: 2012, season. 

This fanbase is done with hype. There's been a lot of false hype over the last decade. Results or bust at this point. 

Sign Correa first and hope this team playing well, if you miss Correa now then you would never know when would have another player in his caliber. 

8 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

Sign Correa first and hope this team playing well, if you miss Correa now then you would never know when would have another player in his caliber. 

I'm not saying don't sign Correa, I'm just saying his signing alone isn't gonna really increase ticket sales as you said. 

25 minutes ago, SilverBullet said:

I'm not saying don't sign Correa, I'm just saying his signing alone isn't gonna really increase ticket sales as you said. 

I believe with Correa in the roster would increasing the number of the season ticket holders to a certain degree. 

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